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Old 1st August 2015
  #1
New truck

Hi all,

just wanted to share our new truck with you.

It's a smallish (8 camera) truck with a 48 fader Lawo MC2 56 installed.

(one picture is older with just two faderbays installed)

The Lawo is superflexible with 16 MADI ports. 1 of the MADI ports is connected to a Waves soundgrid server running all Waves plugins.
Really fantastic to have plugins available for live broadcast (with 0.8 ms latency in to out)
The soundgrid server is controlled by a mac mini with large touchscreen (driver by touchbase as apple does not support touchscreens natively)
It's a touch and turn situation where you touch a parameter on the screen and then turn the big griffin controller. Works really well.

Too bad Waves does not have a reverb that I like because the rest ("analog" compression, dynamic eq, realtime noisereduction etc.) works fantastically..

Huub

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...1&d=1438431212
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...1&d=1438431222
Attached Thumbnails
New truck-01_united_ob16_controlroom_press.jpg   New truck-pano_0006.jpg  
Old 1st August 2015
  #2
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
Nice Ride :-)

Is the soundgrid more stable than running pc's?
Old 1st August 2015
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by just.sounds View Post
Nice Ride :-)

Is the soundgrid more stable than running pc's?
100%.

Latency is lower and it's basically as stable as hardware.

I have experimented quite a bit with native, it is possible to create a very reliable system, but some systems never become reliable (sometimes two same generation macbooks running the same OS behave differently)
And also, we need 100% reliabilty which is impossible running multirack native.
Old 1st August 2015
  #4
Engagement Manager
 
Sniperschool's Avatar
@ huub
Very cool indeed!
Old 2nd August 2015
  #5
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
Did the 16 madi's come with the package or do you actually use that many connections on a regular basis? Are the stageboxes the same as the Do-tech's? I'm currently looking into a setup for broadcasting from my studio. First i wanted to stay native but i can't get my control surfaces (5x euphonix artist) stable enough. So soundgrid together with a dm2000 could be nice. Though i hope it's fast enough to patch in the soundgrid fx because otherwise you won't use them enough in a fast paced production. Lawo is a bit pricey but nice nontheless ;-)
Old 2nd August 2015
  #6
Hi,

the 16 MADIs we specified for our system, two stageboxes on MADI, a video router with 2 MADIs, multitracks, a video de/embedder on MADI, two DOtec Andiamo XT on MADI etc.

We have Lawo stageboxes but the DOtec andiamo MC stageboxes can be connected to and controlled from a Lawo. We considered this but did not want to compromise on mic amps (although I'm quite sure the DOtecs sound very good).

However, we do have two DOtec andiamo XT units for AES and line in and outputs.

Really reliable, extremely good quality and very affordable.

For now, I'm not using the Waves for every channel, just for leadvocals, possibly some subgroups and or masters.
And for anything that needs something extra or special.
I want to keep things as simple as possible. Simple is good.
And the Lawo sounds great.
Old 2nd August 2015
  #7
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
Yes those andiamo xt's are swiss army knifes!! I have one and like it very much. I know what you mean with the waves. I even find it too much hassle sometimes to patch on a rupert neve eq in a yamaha VCM enabled mixer. That's why i'm looking for a mixer. Simplicity, reliability and speed. Maybe someday a daw on pc can offer that but for now i'm not feeling safe.
Old 2nd August 2015
  #8
Some people are using pro tools hdx systems to mix big live broadcasts. But that does get pricey as wel...
Old 3rd August 2015
  #9
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
any idea what a mc2 36 costs? I'm just curious :-)
Old 3rd August 2015
  #10
No, not really.. I'm involved in the decision process of buying equipment but never actually see the bills..
I do know that the Studer Vista1 is way less expensive than the MC2 36, we have a few Vista1's for smaller studio set ups..

But the actual price of a 36 could be 30 to 50.000 euros? I'm not sure at all..
Old 3rd August 2015
  #11
recording to SSD or harddisk?
Old 3rd August 2015
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by muziekschuur View Post
recording to SSD or harddisk?
Both. All our trucks have standard PCs with RME MADI interface and Reaper.
(with old fashioned 7200RPM drives)

Our "big" 192 channel recording systems have either RAID6 drive systems or PCIE SSD's, depending on their age.
All work fine really. Although I do prefer new macbook systems with PCIE SSDs.
Old 3rd August 2015
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Hi all,

Too bad Waves does not have a reverb that I like because the rest ("analog" compression, dynamic eq, realtime noisereduction etc.) works fantastically..
Have you worked with the IR-L on the Soundgrid? Minimal controls and with a a bit of tweaking, sounds quite respectable. It's not a Lexicon 480/960 or Bricasti, but it is quite usable. Just did a classical festival on a Soundgrid equipped DigicoSD7 and used it in several instances with good results.

Quote:
Some people are using pro tools hdx systems to mix big live broadcasts. But that does get pricey as wel...
Just mixed monitors for a big show that M3 (Music Mix Mobile- Mark Linett- who is also a GS member) was recording. MADI stream to stage for their Aphex pres, recording to redundant Pro Tools systems and the mix on a 3rd Pro Tools system with a control surface. Pretty slick way to work.

--Ben
Old 3rd August 2015
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
Both. All our trucks have standard PCs with RME MADI interface and Reaper.
(with old fashioned 7200RPM drives)

Our "big" 192 channel recording systems have either RAID6 drive systems or PCIE SSD's, depending on their age.
All work fine really. Although I do prefer new macbook systems with PCIE SSDs.
I heard from a hardisk recorder developer that rewrites on SSD's are not as smooth as with traditional harddrives. But I reckon you record only once and then swap. I can only imagine an SSD being the perfect medium.
Old 3rd August 2015
  #15
Couple of questions (nice truck by the way)...

Are you doing video and audio or are the cameras only used for looking at the stage?

If you are doing video how are you recording it?

Do you have a video switcher somewhere or is everything done as wild tracks to be edited later?

Just wanted to know more...thanks in advance for any information.
Old 3rd August 2015
  #16
We're a video company really

So we have shaders in the truck who adjust colour, black level and iris of all cameras so the pictures match.
If the program is live, a visionmixer switches the cameras and we also usually record all cameras seperately to a video server. All equipement is synched to the same timecode and sync reference.
Old 3rd August 2015
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
Have you worked with the IR-L on the Soundgrid? Minimal controls and with a a bit of tweaking, sounds quite respectable. It's not a Lexicon 480/960 or Bricasti, but it is quite usable. Just did a classical festival on a Soundgrid equipped DigicoSD7 and used it in several instances with good results.


--Ben
Hi Ben,

yes, the IR-L and H-reverb are certainly very usable.
But I kind of hate reverb in general, except for Lexicons

(and a couple of other plug ins that sound like Lexicons)
Old 3rd August 2015
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
We're a video company really

So we have shaders in the truck who adjust colour, black level and iris of all cameras so the pictures match.
If the program is live, a visionmixer switches the cameras and we also usually record all cameras seperately to a video server. All equipement is synched to the same timecode and sync reference.
Thanks for the info. What are you using for cameras?

In the US we call the vision mixer (good title) a technical director or TD.

Very nice truck. Are their pictures of the rest of the truck including the video and graphics area?


Thanks!
Old 3rd August 2015
  #19
We use both Thompson ldk 8000 and Sony 2500, sometimes Sony F55. We're also trying out some new generation 4K broadcast cameras.
Old 3rd August 2015
  #20
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Thanks for the info. What are you using for cameras?

In the US we call the vision mixer (good title) a technical director or TD.

Very nice truck. Are their pictures of the rest of the truck including the video and graphics area?


Thanks!
You should google "united ob16"
Old 3rd August 2015
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
Marty Gras's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by just.sounds View Post
You should google "united ob16"
Yes, TD is what I am familiar with.

Oh my, I am getting drool all over my desk. That is just perfect. And video too. It's the total package, and portable.
Old 4th August 2015
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by just.sounds View Post
You should google "united ob16"
Thanks for the heads up.
Old 6th August 2015
  #23
Gear Nut
 
Hamburg's Avatar
 

This soundbooth looks great. The 16 Fader mc2 36 is € 49.000,-- excl. VAT. I am using some directout stuff from the people who buil the ANDIAMOS- everything works perfect.-
Old 6th August 2015
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Bstapper's Avatar
 

What was the thought process behind the orientation of the center channel speaker? Just curious. Love your touchscreen/giant parameter knob concept.
Old 7th August 2015
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bstapper View Post
What was the thought process behind the orientation of the center channel speaker? Just curious. Love your touchscreen/giant parameter knob concept.
It's just to get all tweeters close to ear level.
The center speaker is a bit higher to leave room for the video screens.

Huub
Old 8th August 2015
  #26
Lives for gear
 
just.sounds's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburg View Post
This soundbooth looks great. The 16 Fader mc2 36 is € 49.000,-- excl. VAT. I am using some directout stuff from the people who buil the ANDIAMOS- everything works perfect.-
49K sweet mother of zeuss that is a lot of money. I guess there is still no better deal than a dm2000 or is there?

Yes do-tech is solid. Maybe not extremely good specs but bang for buck they rule!!
Old 8th August 2015
  #27
Gear Nut
 

Nice room.

What was the thought process of using the DO external AD-DA instead of loading a Dallis frame with cards? It seems easier to do everything from the LAWO router page instead.

Have you any experience between the 66 and 56 surfaces. Wondering why you went 56?

J
Old 8th August 2015
  #28
Gear Addict
 
c1ferrari's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by just.sounds View Post
You should google "united ob16"
Whoa!
Old 9th August 2015
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaMutt View Post
Nice room.

What was the thought process of using the DO external AD-DA instead of loading a Dallis frame with cards? It seems easier to do everything from the LAWO router page instead.

Have you any experience between the 66 and 56 surfaces. Wondering why you went 56?

J
Hi, the DOtecs are extremely less expensive than Dallis frames.
our local and remote MIC amps and RIEDEL port cards are on dallis frames.

However, the analog I/O on the andiamos are for less critical sources (mostly intercom and all sorts of monitoring positions.

I don't think for line I/O the andiamo is very much of a compromise, they sound great and are super reliable.

We can still do everything from the Lawo (or VSM) even DSP gain is available so functionally there is zero difference between DOtec and Dallis.

(Well, 1 difference, we can not change reference level like we can with dallis line i/o... but analog is getting less and less relevant, so no big deal to keep those i/o's fixed at +15 dBu)


The 56 vs 66 is also mostly a price thing. But I feel working on a 56 surface is hardly a compromise vs a 66 surface.

For bigger trucks we'll look at the 66 more seriously (all our bigger trucks currently have MKI 66's), but this is quite a small truck.

Huub
Old 23rd October 2015
  #30
Some new nice pics:

ProjectBuilders.eu
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