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People just don't get our craft!!
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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People just don't get our craft!!

Now I know this issue has been done to death, and the past few years of doing this, I've already developed somewhat of a thick skin regarding this matter. Admittedly, it still irks me from time to time. Just want to share a few scenarios I've experienced recently.

1. I was explaining a raven mti is to a co-worker and he goes, oh cool! like a virtual DJ? WTF!!

2. Back in my college years, I had a short DJ stint at a friends 'pirate' radio station. Keep in mind this was a pirate station for crying out loud. Co workers are more interested in that than the albums/music i've written. Effin synthesized patches / guitar playing, music that came from the depths of my soul!!!!

3. When people hear the word electronic music, they just think.. 'oh you make house?' (nothing bad though, i like house.) just really annoying. since we all know how deep down the rabbit hole you can go.

4. I was staring into the window of our local music store, then someone passes by, points at a microbrute and says. "wow, look at that cute little piano!!"

5. I'm primarily a guitar player but branched out to other instruments. when I started playing the uke, people had this stupid notion that I quit guitar. "oh you stop playing guitar now??" why? what rule is there that we can only play one instrument at a time.

Anyway, the list goes on and on. I just actually let it be and don't even mention anything to anyone. when people ask me what i like doing or what I'm up to. I just say "nothing." I'm very content in my own creative world, i guess that's enough. anyone got some experiences to share? what do you slutz think? My apologies for this rant. I'm rotting at work and missing my studio so this is the next best thing haha.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Gear Nut
 

At risk of sounding glib, I came to synthesizers/electronic music after several years as a death metal fan, so I've found any misconceptions about the former are small potatoes compared to what I'm used to.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoking_Gnu View Post
At risk of sounding glib, I came to synthesizers/electronic music after several years as a death metal fan, so I've found any misconceptions about the former are small potatoes compared to what I'm used to.
Back in the 90's when I was learning guitar, I was such a metalhead, that any notion of music not played with any form of labor or technical precision was not legitimate. I guess I needed to grow up a bit. But yeah, i know what you mean.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by glasspipe View Post
Now I know this issue has been done to death, and the past few years of doing this, I've already developed somewhat of a thick skin regarding this matter.
apparently you have not!

Quote:
1. I was explaining a raven mti is to a co-worker and he goes, oh cool! like a virtual DJ? WTF!!
my sister, who is a lawyer, was explaining how the judge in her case had made some kind of mistake in Discovery that was something something The Law, something something Grounds for Appeal. I nod along and get some of it, but it's largely over my head. The difference between me and your friend is that he says something: "oh cool like a virtual DJ" and I keep my mouth shut.

and you know, it IS kind of like a virtual DJ...

Quote:
Co workers are more interested in that than the albums/music i've written. ... music that came from the depths of my soul!!!!
well the world does not owe you "interest" in your art. That's a whole topic of its own.

Quote:
When people hear the word electronic music, they just think.. 'oh you make house?'
My nephew is deeply into EDM, DJing, producing shows, bringing guests in from Europe and the West Coast etc etc, I am a musician and recording engineer and as far as I am concerned it's all "House". Just like everything I listen to is probably all "oldies" to him!

If I say something like: "oh, is that Dubstep?" I am trying at least, but of course I am probably going to get an eyeroll. Because it's not dubstep, it's Jungle-TrapHouse-Acid-Footwork! How could I be so clueless?

Quote:
when people ask me what i like doing or what I'm up to. I just say "nothing."
well here you may be taking it too far. People probably are slightly interested, but their eyes will glaze over if you go overboard on the techy details. That's why we have Gearslutz, so we can talk about a microbrute with someone else who actually knows what that is, and actually CARES what that is.

Quote:
I'm very content in my own creative world, i guess that's enough. anyone got some experiences to share?
I have learned when talking to "civilians" to keep it simple. I have learned to find people in the field to talk to my micro-interests.


Now I actually work as an instructor at a nearby college, where I teach a few audio classes. My students are "communications" majors. So they may end up in audio, but they may end up in television, video editing, mass media, radio, broadcast writing etc etc. They range from kids who have their own Pro Tools rigs at home and are recording; to others who have never touched a musical instrument before my course. And may never again. I have to teach them all in the same class.

By assuming they have Zero background and by keeping it simple, by the end of the semester they can all paste a song together from loops, mix a multi-tracked band down to stereo, mic up a drum set, and put sound effects to a movie. I have that background of explaining things clearly in non-technical language and using understandable analogies to get the basic idea across.

I can tell a 'studio story' to my lawyer sister, my former landlord, my mom even and have them 'get it'. As long as I keep in mind who I am talking to.

When I talk to my engineer buddies, I can go nuts.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Quote:
apparently you have not!
I did say that it just irks me sometimes. Ok Ok, maybe not that thick. I did say i was into this for a few years, so I'm still 'young.'

Quote:
my sister, who is a lawyer, was explaining how the judge in her case had made some kind of mistake in Discovery that was something something The Law, something something Grounds for Appeal. I nod along and get some of it, but it's largely over my head. The difference between me and your friend is that he says something: "oh cool like a virtual DJ" and I keep my mouth shut.

and you know, it IS kind of like a virtual DJ...
I may have to respectfully disagree. I don't see any DJ's lugging a raven to a festival.

Quote:
My nephew is deeply into EDM, DJing, producing shows, bringing guests in from Europe and the West Coast etc etc, I am a musician and recording engineer and as far as I am concerned it's all "House". Just like everything I listen to is probably all "oldies" to him!
It not just "all house." I'm really not into pigeonholing music, but it just frustrates me that some people don't get the 'intricacies" and "nuances" of electronic music.

Quote:
well the world does not owe you "interest" in your art. That's a whole topic of its own.
Yeah, this I do understand. maybe I did not explain clearly. I wasn't really forcing anyone to like "my art." I was just pointing out how people found something that required less technical knowledge more interesting. For example, a co-worker mentioned that, "oh, that's so easy, you just edit the audio and you're done!" I said to myself, try working with a blank DAW template and a synth with an initialized patch and let's see what you come up with.

Last edited by glasspipe; 1 week ago at 10:37 AM.. Reason: had to add a few things!!
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by glasspipe View Post
I may have to respectfully disagree. I don't see any DJ's lugging a raven to a festival.
It is analogous. You are doing something on a screen that used to be done with machines. That's quite a LOT in common, really, but you are too close to your own thing to appreciate the commonalities. You only see the 'intricacies'. If you had 'gone with' the analogy instead of being put off by it, you might have actually connected with the guy and he might have learned something.

I look at this video and the FIRST thing I think is: "hey, that's a lot like the Raven":


or if "lugging" is concern, you can do it on your laptop:


Quote:
It not just "all house." I'm really not into pigeonholing music, but it just frustrates me that some people don't get the 'intricacies" and "nuances" of electronic music.
That's exactly what "pigeonholing music" MEANS. Why should they be expected to "get the nuances" of a style of music that they don't listen to? I know plenty of electronic music guys who probably don't know the difference between Cool Jazz and Bebop. They don't listen to either, so how could they know the difference? I know classical people who would be dismissive of you if you didn't know the difference between a Nocturne and a Polonaise. Seriously.

You are allowing yourself to get annoyed that people don't get your thing, but I wonder if some marine biologist somewhere would think you are a jerk because you confused a dolphin with a porpoise!


Quote:
I was just pointing out how people found something that required less technical knowledge more interesting.
They find it "more interesting" because it requires less technical knowledge. They know how to hit "play" and they know how to talk, so they could imagine themselves working at a Pirate Radio station. They don't know how to perform on an instrument, much less operate a DAW, so they can't visualize themselves doing it, and it becomes therefore less interesting to them.

You need to look at it from a perspective other than your own! If you met someone who worked in International Banking and who went hang gliding on the weekends, which subject would you be more interested in talking to him about?
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by glasspipe View Post
Now I know this issue has been done to death, and the past few years of doing this, I've already developed somewhat of a thick skin regarding this matter. Admittedly, it still irks me from time to time. Just want to share a few scenarios I've experienced recently.

[...]

2. Back in my college years, I had a short DJ stint at a friends 'pirate' radio station. Keep in mind this was a pirate station for crying out loud. Co workers are more interested in that than the albums/music i've written. Effin synthesized patches / guitar playing, music that came from the depths of my soul!!!!
You were a DJ on a pirate radio station?!? That sounds cool.

Most people, regular folks, know a lot of musicians, amateur or pro or somewhere in between.

I mean, I'm a guitarist (and play a little banjo, mandolin, and keyboards) and former studio RE and I know a jillion guitarists, synth players, and REs.

I've maybe run into pirate radio station DJs a couple times in a long life (above the 5 watt level, anyhow).

Face it, to most folks, that's going to be interesting.

As we often say in the states, if fate gives you a lemon tree, make lemonade. Make this part of your [you should pardon the overworn expression] personal narrative.


Quote:

3. When people hear the word electronic music, they just think.. 'oh you make house?' (nothing bad though, i like house.) just really annoying. since we all know how deep down the rabbit hole you can go.
I get that. In the 90s, I was pretty involved in electronica. It IS a deep rabbit hole. But it's really about the same with other genres. If the person you're talking to is outside the genre, there's going to be little engagement.

'Oh, you make metal/Americana/jazz/bluegrass/whatever? That's interesting. How about that weather, huh?'

Quote:
4. I was staring into the window of our local music store, then someone passes by, points at a microbrute and says. "wow, look at that cute little piano!!"
Is it ok if they say what a cute little keyboard. I've said stuff like that in music stores. I've been in a LOT of music stores.
Quote:
5. I'm primarily a guitar player but branched out to other instruments. when I started playing the uke, people had this stupid notion that I quit guitar. "oh you stop playing guitar now??" why? what rule is there that we can only play one instrument at a time.
As noted I play a few different instruments to varying degrees. But very seldom at one time.

I figure, until I'm this-guy good, I should probably keep it that way...



Quote:

Anyway, the list goes on and on. I just actually let it be and don't even mention anything to anyone. when people ask me what i like doing or what I'm up to. I just say "nothing." I'm very content in my own creative world, i guess that's enough. anyone got some experiences to share? what do you slutz think? My apologies for this rant. I'm rotting at work and missing my studio so this is the next best thing haha.
I say embrace that contentment... In the words of some guys even older than me:



Enjoy music -- enjoy making it!

Last edited by theblue1; 1 week ago at 09:19 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
You were a DJ on a pirate radio station?!? That sounds cool.

Most people, regular folks, know a lot of musicians, amateur or pro or somewhere in between.

I mean, I'm a guitarist (and play a little banjo, mandolin, and keyboards) and former studio RE and I know a jillion guitarists, synth players, and REs.

I've maybe run into pirate radio station DJs a couple times in a long life (above the 5 watt level, anyhow).

Face it, to most folks, that's going to be interesting.

As we often say in the states, if fate gives you a lemon tree, make lemonade. Make this part of your [you should pardon the overworn expression] personal narrative.



I get that. In the 90s, I was pretty involved in electronica. It IS a deep rabbit hole. But it's really about the same with other genres. If the person you're talking to is outside the genre, there's going to be little engagement.

'Oh, you make metal/Americana/jazz/bluegrass/whatever? That's interesting. How about that weather, huh?'


Is it ok if they say what a cute little keyboard. I've said stuff like that in music stores. I've been in a LOT of music stores.
As noted I play a few different instruments to varying degrees. But very seldom at one time.

I figure, until I'm this-guy good, I should probably keep it that way...



I say embrace that contentment... In the words of some guys even older than me:



Enjoy music -- enjoy making it!
Good points! eventually, at the end of the day, it's all good. I guess my passion gets the best of me sometimes!
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
apparently you have not!



my sister, who is a lawyer, was explaining how the judge in her case had made some kind of mistake in Discovery that was something something The Law, something something Grounds for Appeal. I nod along and get some of it, but it's largely over my head. The difference between me and your friend is that he says something: "oh cool like a virtual DJ" and I keep my mouth shut.

and you know, it IS kind of like a virtual DJ...



well the world does not owe you "interest" in your art. That's a whole topic of its own.


My nephew is deeply into EDM, DJing, producing shows, bringing guests in from Europe and the West Coast etc etc, I am a musician and recording engineer and as far as I am concerned it's all "House". Just like everything I listen to is probably all "oldies" to him!

If I say something like: "oh, is that Dubstep?" I am trying at least, but of course I am probably going to get an eyeroll. Because it's not dubstep, it's Jungle-TrapHouse-Acid-Footwork! How could I be so clueless?


well here you may be taking it too far. People probably are slightly interested, but their eyes will glaze over if you go overboard on the techy details. That's why we have Gearslutz, so we can talk about a microbrute with someone else who actually knows what that is, and actually CARES what that is.



I have learned when talking to "civilians" to keep it simple. I have learned to find people in the field to talk to my micro-interests.


Now I actually work as an instructor at a nearby college, where I teach a few audio classes. My students are "communications" majors. So they may end up in audio, but they may end up in television, video editing, mass media, radio, broadcast writing etc etc. They range from kids who have their own Pro Tools rigs at home and are recording; to others who have never touched a musical instrument before my course. And may never again. I have to teach them all in the same class.

By assuming they have Zero background and by keeping it simple, by the end of the semester they can all paste a song together from loops, mix a multi-tracked band down to stereo, mic up a drum set, and put sound effects to a movie. I have that background of explaining things clearly in non-technical language and using understandable analogies to get the basic idea across.

I can tell a 'studio story' to my lawyer sister, my former landlord, my mom even and have them 'get it'. As long as I keep in mind who I am talking to.

When I talk to my engineer buddies, I can go nuts.
Good answer.....I'm going to be watching you....

Old 1 week ago
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by glasspipe View Post
Good points! eventually, at the end of the day, it's all good. I guess my passion gets the best of me sometimes!
Join the club!
Old 1 week ago
  #11
I have no issues when man on the street has no idea what I do.

I DO have an internal eyeball roll when someone who works for the label has no idea what I do - or more importantly, why the pitiful amount of studio time they think they need is woefully underbudgeted, or why I can't just fit in their stupid filming for "it's only half an hour! Oh and we need the studio cleared" when I've got a week's worth of band tracking happening...
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I have no issues when man on the street has no idea what I do.

I DO have an internal eyeball roll when someone who works for the label has no idea what I do - or more importantly, why the pitiful amount of studio time they think they need is woefully underbudgeted, or why I can't just fit in their stupid filming...
Some of that, I'm sure, is your reward for making it look so easy.

Also, sometimes in those behemoth organizations, a person is thrown into a situation where they're just faking it and passing along orders from upstairs and it's not entirely their fault.

I once spent a torturous morning having to deal with a young client (from the brand, not the ad agency) who seemed to be a nonstop moron and was a complete impediment to any kind of progress. Then over lunch she told me, "I don't really do this. My job is to go around making sure the billboards we pay for are actually there -- you wouldn't believe how often they aren't. I just happened to be in LA so they sent me to cover the radio sessions. It's very interesting!"
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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I don't expect the lay person to know anything about what I do; what I hate is when people assume you're just "talented" and "gifted", and don't see the years of work - the 2 AM practice sessions and tedious revisions and attention to detail .... and research, tons of research.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Lives for gear
Laypeople don't bother me so much. It's the people that call themselves "engineer" that have no idea what Ohm's Law is but they spent a ton of money on the best gear guitar center had and read a lot online. They went to school for clicking a mouse in DAW software so now they're recording pros that charge $10k to ruin, I mean produce, a band's album. The band knows it just needs mastering that's why it doesn't sound good on their car stereo. Another great demographic are musicians that demand I record or setup a certain way and then blame me when the recording sucks. Even worse is trying to convince them that the bad sound they're hearing is their playing technique.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Some of that, I'm sure, is your reward for making it look so easy. [...]
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Lives for gear
I don't even try to talk with surgeons much about what they do, and a high school friend who ended up helping design the stealth fighter has been almost impossible to talk with, even before he got a security clearance. I've never thought much about it, but reading this, I wonder if they also resent the crap out of people who have no real interest or understanding regarding the esoteric specialty they love. Frustrated I understand, but resentful seems a little uncalled for.
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Some of that, I'm sure, is your reward for making it look so easy.

Also, sometimes in those behemoth organizations, a person is thrown into a situation where they're just faking it and passing along orders from upstairs and it's not entirely their fault.

I once spent a torturous morning having to deal with a young client (from the brand, not the ad agency) who seemed to be a nonstop moron and was a complete impediment to any kind of progress. Then over lunch she told me, "I don't really do this. My job is to go around making sure the billboards we pay for are actually there -- you wouldn't believe how often they aren't. I just happened to be in LA so they sent me to cover the radio sessions. It's very interesting!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
I don't even try to talk with surgeons much about what they do, and a high school friend who ended up helping design the stealth fighter has been almost impossible to talk with, even before he got a security clearance. I've never thought much about it, but reading this, I wonder if they also resent the crap out of people who have no real interest or understanding regarding the esoteric specialty they love. Frustrated I understand, but resentful seems a little uncalled for.
True both points. I think it's as much the lack of interest that someone can work in the music industry, and not have the slightest bit of interest on how the product they spend all day promoting is created. I guess it's just how minds work differently - I'm quite keen on finding out how people do things - be that the whole ingest process (when a single goes "online" to itunes) for example - I find this benefits me because I have a better idea of deadlines - or graphics, which I have no aptitude for but I'm interested in the process, or even just the way we pitch to radio. I'm surprised that some people come to me and go "wow, I've never been in here before!" and they've worked in the building for more than 5 years or something.

But I guess that means that's why they can do well at a job that would bore me to tears...different minds for different tasks.
Old 3 days ago
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
I don't expect the lay person to know anything about what I do; what I hate is when people assume you're just "talented" and "gifted", and don't see the years of work - the 2 AM practice sessions and tedious revisions and attention to detail .... and research, tons of research.
Or, now that it's digital and "everything is done on computers" that it's all automated and your time isn't worth anything anymore.

I see the same thing in the photography world, we've been devalued because I no longer have to pay for film or chemicals for the darkroom.
Old 2 days ago
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefellh View Post
Or, now that it's digital and "everything is done on computers" that it's all automated and your time isn't worth anything anymore.

I see the same thing in the photography world, we've been devalued because I no longer have to pay for film or chemicals for the darkroom.
I'm sure portrait painters were screaming when photography was invented.
Old 2 days ago
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefellh View Post
Or, now that it's digital and "everything is done on computers" that it's all automated and your time isn't worth anything anymore.

I see the same thing in the photography world, we've been devalued because I no longer have to pay for film or chemicals for the darkroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
I'm sure portrait painters were screaming when photography was invented.
Their disdain for the new technology was theatrical.


I think it's great that everyday folks (at least those who can afford nice phones) can shoot what can turn out to be very pleasing photographs. Does it 'devalue' the fine work of the craftsmen of the past or those of today who prefer to do things in classic fashion? I would give a qualified 'no' as answer -- but it does, indeed, make nice looking photos more commonplace; perhaps in a sense, the advances in ease of shooting devalues the finished product, even as those in the know can still appreciate the craft that went into a classically arrived at photograph.
Old 2 days ago
  #21
Lives for gear
You mix music = you're a DJ

Remixes = only meant to be dance music

Mixing = takes 30 minutes (maybe if you're Joe Chicarelli!)

Pre-production = WTF is that???????

1 song = why's it take 3+ hours to record??????

Anything music related = you're just noodling around all day
Old 1 day ago
  #22
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefellh View Post
I see the same thing in the photography world, we've been devalued because I no longer have to pay for film or chemicals for the darkroom.
the only 'devaluation' going on is due to the fact that there is no longer only one set of negatives that you can hang on to forever and charge your clients per print from now until doomsday. If the happy couple wants to use their wedding photo as a screensaver, you have to give them the file, and once they have the file they can send it to anyone, print it themselves and so on.

Photographers have to get their money at the gig, or not at all.

Gee, that reminds me of some other field where there used to be a physical Thing that the 'art product' resided on and now that too has been reduced to a file. People get one copy of the file and can 'share' it with everyone else. Was it it sculpture? Dance?

I think professionals are 'devalued' only because they CAN be. On the financial level. We have several talented photographers in our family - people who know their way around a darkroom - not just how to operate a camera. Still, when someone gets married, nobody says 'oh we have so many people who have DSLRs we will rely on them for the wedding photos'. The photos from the pro are clearly a cut above what Uncle Joe took and we all know it. They are well worth the money they get for coming to the event and taking the photos and working on them.

At the same time, no wedding photographer in her right mind is going try and enforce the "Old Rules" about prints and copies.
Old 1 day ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Gee, that reminds me of some other field where there used to be a physical Thing...
That's why Jimmy and Dre are selling headphones and not records. If Beats were edible they'd be perfect.
Old 1 day ago
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
That's why Jimmy and Dre are selling headphones and not records. If Beats were edible they'd be perfect.
If Beats were edible they'd make your butt fat, rot your teeth, and make your breath stink.
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