The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Abbey Road Studios "Vinyl"? You have got to be kidding me...
Old 25th January 2017
  #1
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Abbey Road Studios "Vinyl"? You have got to be kidding me...

In the pantheon of "gear" that there may not be time for, this stands out: a plug-in that recreates the clicks, pops, and other flaws of vinyl records. Just in case you missed them. Of course no one can deny the nostalgic power of a well implemented click-- but I kept searching for the Skip function, which would leap you two seconds ahead in the program. Or the Broken Record function, which would loop the last two seconds, over and over and over, until you hit the Slam Your Fist On The Table function, which would resume playback.

They must be saving that for the upgrade.
Old 25th January 2017
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

The beauty part of a good, long gouge on a vinyl record is that the duration between the resulting ticks is just a tiny bit shorter with each turn of the platter. Like a drip in a bathtub that's slowly getting worse. I hope to God they got that right.
Old 25th January 2017
  #3
Nod
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
The beauty part of a good, long gouge on a vinyl record is that the duration between the resulting ticks is just a tiny bit shorter with each turn of the platter. Like a drip in a bathtub that's slowly getting worse. I hope to God they got that right.
Errr only if your turntable is speeding up!
Old 25th January 2017
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nod View Post
Errr only if your turntable is speeding up!
You might thing so. But while the turntable runs at a constant speed, the circumference of each "orbit" gets shorter as the tonearm progresses toward the center of the disk. It's like the bike wheel/playing card/clothespin thing. Attach the card at the outer end of a spoke and you get "flap... flap... flap..." Move it in toward the center and you get "flap-flap-flap." Make sense?

Late edit: this is wrong. See below.
Old 25th January 2017
  #5
Nod
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You might thing so. But while the turntable runs at a constant speed, the circumference of each "orbit" gets shorter as the tonearm progresses toward the center of the disk. Capisce?
As the groove velocity gets slower, the interval between the clicks stays the same!
Old 25th January 2017
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You might thing so. But while the turntable runs at a constant speed, the circumference of each "orbit" gets shorter as the tonearm progresses toward the center of the disk. It's like the bike wheel/playing card/clothespin thing. Attach the card at the outer end of a spoke and you get "flap... flap... flap..." Move it in toward the center and you get "flap-flap-flap." Make sense?
You might think so...

But with a single scratch perpendicular to the grooves in the record, to encounter the scratch the disc must turn exactly 1 time. As the rotational speed is constant, the time between each single rotation is the same, and each click sound will happen at evenly spaced intervals.

The distance between each scratch as it travels through the groove changes, but the time interval is the same!

The sound of the click will change though, since at the edge of the disc it will be passed by faster than near the center of the disc.
Old 25th January 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nod View Post
As the groove velocity gets slower, the interval between the clicks stays the same!
You know what? You're right. I'm an idiot. Never mind. :-)
Old 25th January 2017
  #8
Gear Addict
 

The modulation sounds good though. It isn't totally useless. Try it on VI Strings.
Old 25th January 2017
  #9
The spin down effect on iZotope's Vinyl is pretty cool.

And it's free!
Old 25th January 2017
  #10
Gear Guru
 
joelpatterson's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
....
The sound of the click will change though, since at the edge of the disc it will be passed by faster than near the center of the disc.
I think they-- to get technical about it-- label your faster version a Zip-Style Click, or just a Zip for short, as opposed to the center-of-the-disc standard Click, and you're able to dial between the two, depending on where in your program it happens.
Old 25th January 2017
  #11
Lives for gear
 
kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You know what? You're right. I'm an idiot. Never mind. :-)
Good thing you didn't design the plug. This would have totally destroyed the suspension of disbelief factor. No longer would it be the 1960's. No longer would I have been transported to the AR vinyl suites.

Anyway, that's a brain teaser. First impression is that clicks would get closer together, until hits you that a spinning disc move much faster near the edge than near the center. Good one.
Old 25th January 2017
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Mr.HOLMES's Avatar
They are not kidding you, they make lot of cash with it.
Old 25th January 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Both "telephone filter" and "vinyl noise" effects for a beginning section of a song are a well past overused producer trick. Plugins like to copy whatever everyone else has already done.

As for the record scratch Nerdfest, if record player is rotating at constant speed and the scratch is a straight line from record center to outer edge then the scratch "pop" will be at a repeated same time interval. If the scratch angle is different or the phono speed not exact it won't be. Now for extra points - - - If the scratch was made by upseting the tonearm while the record was playing (the needle made the scratch), what kind of physical scratch would you expect to see?
Old 25th January 2017
  #14
Gear Addict
 
Farmboy presents's Avatar
Nothing is so disconcerting to me as listening to a well loved track that does not have the jump/tic/scratch at a particular moment. Proves that not only can you get used to anything but that aberrations become normal with time. Society take note.
Old 25th January 2017
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You know what? You're right. I'm an idiot. Never mind. :-)
LOL

We've all been there. And those that say they haven't... well...

Sometimes the neurons just don't line up right some mornings. Or late nights.



FWIW -- and I know it doesn't have to be pointed out to the now-undoubtedly chagrined Brent [who is, in reality, a very knowledgeable guy!] -- it's precisely this issue that is at the heart of the 'radius loss' phenomenon that delivers ever-lower fidelity as the needle moves closer to center and, so, moves more slowly in the groove.
Old 25th January 2017
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
... I know it doesn't have to be pointed out to the now-undoubtedly chagrined Brent...
When I'm wrong I gotta own it. Otherwise it calls everything else I've ever said into question. Where I was 100% right. :-)
Old 25th January 2017
  #17
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
In the pantheon of "gear" that there may not be time for, this stands out: a plug-in that recreates the clicks, pops, and other flaws of vinyl records. Just in case you missed them. Of course no one can deny the nostalgic power of a well implemented click-- but I kept searching for the Skip function, which would leap you two seconds ahead in the program. Or the Broken Record function, which would loop the last two seconds, over and over and over, until you hit the Slam Your Fist On The Table function, which would resume playback.

They must be saving that for the upgrade.
I don't know if you've played with the Abbey Road plugin, each noise source is a separate adjustment you can just dial out to "just keep the good stuff." I'm also becoming a bit skeptical of the "let's model all things fetishized from the historical analog world" trend in plugins, but it's undeniable that there's still a lot of folks out there that want "that vinyl sound." I wouldn't have played with it if it weren't for a client looking for audio for an old-timey gramophone in a video game for whom the fact I could add more noise, using it like an effects plugin, was a desirable feature. If someone wants to pay for authentic because they have a Kubrick-like obsession with accuracy, right or wrong, who am I to argue?

Other than that, my only other plan for it is to play a practical joke on my wife, who is still too obsessed with having everything on vinyl.
Old 25th January 2017
  #18
Lives for gear
 
cavern's Avatar
 

How do they simulate the sound of a plastic 45 adaptor that is stuck on the pin. Is it a specific click or the sound of the needle dragging on the platter.
Old 25th January 2017
  #19
Lives for food
 

I have yet to hear a clicks and pops vinyl plug that doesn't end up sounding like...... a sterile 21st century file sound with ... clicks and pops integrated on top. Dead giveaway that the effect is a slapped on fake. There's no nostalgia when you can instantly tell the underlying recording is not the product of the all-important-but-no-one-deals-with-it-cuz-there-ain't-no-plug lathe process (disregarding if it was tracked to sound retro)

But.... that's for another topic.... specifically..... the other thread from a few weeks back on the ar plug
Old 25th January 2017
  #20
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
I have yet to hear a clicks and pops vinyl plug that doesn't end up sounding like...... a sterile 21st century file sound with ... clicks and pops integrated on top.
If you look at the marketing (and I do because that's my background), it's pretty clear they are selling it for its verisimilitude. I mean, the interface has a single button to simulate "the sound of the legendary TG Desk mastering station." I barely know what I'm doing, but I've learned enough now that I know Mastering isn't done by pressing the "Mastering" button. That's also the reason I jettisoned my LANDR account in short order.

That said, the people at Waves have a pretty darn good marketing department. I mean, look at the marketing for the Infected Mushroom plugins, they have a knob called "Magic" in the plugin.
Old 25th January 2017
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyDandy View Post
That said, the people at Waves have a pretty darn good marketing department. I mean, look at the marketing for the Infected Mushroom plugins, they have a knob called "Magic" in the plugin.
To be fair, the 'Attack' setting on most compressors is just about as accurately labelled.

And when it comes to multi-process parameters, there's comes a point where it's easier to label it 'magic' than a 3 paragraph explanation of basically what is happening.
Old 25th January 2017
  #22
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
In the pantheon of "gear" that there may not be time for, this stands out: a plug-in that recreates the clicks, pops, and other flaws of vinyl records. Just in case you missed them. Of course no one can deny the nostalgic power of a well implemented click-- but I kept searching for the Skip function, which would leap you two seconds ahead in the program. Or the Broken Record function, which would loop the last two seconds, over and over and over, until you hit the Slam Your Fist On The Table function, which would resume playback.

They must be saving that for the upgrade.
You can call it Audio Cinch Marks.
Old 26th January 2017
  #23
I just lower my buffer setting in Pro tools and load up VI's, mmmm loves those clicks, pops, and audio drop outs.... There is that vintage sound I been yearning for... At least the waves version is cheaper than PY
Old 26th January 2017
  #24
It does much, much more than "clicks and pops" (I always tun that off). I like this plug, It's the only waves plug I own. Subtle color...
Old 26th January 2017
  #25
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by clearwave View Post
It does much, much more than "clicks and pops" (I always tun that off). I like this plug, It's the only waves plug I own. Subtle color...
It does warm up the sound and give it that electro-mechanical compression that makes the highs more silky while making the lows more even with the mids. Waves is an interesting company that way, more of the "something for everyone" approach instead of the focus of a lot of plugin companies. I really use the Waves Nx Virtual Room plugin, for example, a lot and swear by it like a lot of people without treated rooms or monitor speakers.
Old 26th January 2017
  #26
Lives for gear
 

To be fair, would the typical listening audience have a sense of nostalgia regardless of whether the 'effect' was real or fake?

Like if I threw this one a relatively clean song, I'm sure quite a few listeners would think "oh nice, kinda sounds like vinyl or something" rather than go into a discussion about the impact of circumference on a scratch!

Technical arguments/jokes warranted/aside - but I can't sit here and dictate that this is completely useless for others if it elicits the emotional response you want from your listener, or yourself. I do fake things in Photoshop all of the time, and have a few cooking shortcuts that prevent me from being in the kitchen for hours on a work night. My family isn't complaining!
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Lives for gear
 
smoovemode's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke View Post
To be fair, would the typical listening audience have a sense of nostalgia regardless of whether the 'effect' was real or fake?

Like if I threw this one a relatively clean song, I'm sure quite a few listeners would think "oh nice, kinda sounds like vinyl or something" rather than go into a discussion about the impact of circumference on a scratch!

Technical arguments/jokes warranted/aside - but I can't sit here and dictate that this is completely useless for others if it elicits the emotional response you want from your listener, or yourself. I do fake things in Photoshop all of the time, and have a few cooking shortcuts that prevent me from being in the kitchen for hours on a work night. My family isn't complaining!
depends on the genre'
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Lives for gear
 
PdotDdot's Avatar
Hey why not? They shoot blue jeans with shotguns and sell them and they take new guitars and sand blast them to make them seem old. The really scary thing is that people actually pay for stuff like this.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
Lives for gear
 
jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PdotDdot View Post
Hey why not? They shoot blue jeans with shotguns and sell them and they take new guitars and sand blast them to make them seem old. The really scary thing is that people actually pay for stuff like this.
is it even worth doing a Demo to see what it is ??? i have it sitting in my account as a demo ..

thx for any info ... john
Old 1 week ago
  #30
I'm designing a plug in to duplicate the sound of lint on the needle. Enough build up and it'll jump the groove, and make that cool sound when it slides sideways, it hits the label!..... Any beta testers out there?
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+  Submit Thread to Reddit Reddit 
 
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump