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Artificial Intelligence is discovering the rules of music composing- the end is near?
Old 1 week ago
  #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691 View Post
Concerning "pop" music, I am actually looking forward to the day computers replace humans as composers and cyborg robots replace stage performers. We might actually see a chance at a musical "revolution" then as I am 110% certain that AI will have more inspiration, taste, and talent than 99.999% of the pop "human" composers/performers of the last 50 years.

And we might actually see some "diva" level robots who will look, sing and dance better than the T & A eye candy hags you see on stage these days.

BRING IT ON !!!!
Old news:

https://youtu.be/Hy0TmPXygtY
Old 1 week ago
  #452
I’m just gonna start with these to show how patronizing one can be when get carried away by his own narcissism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
As inferred above, you clearly don't understand how R&D in trans-humanist related tech and it's closely linked medical science tech R&D works in the highly competitive global technology market.




It's beyond belief how out of touch with reality and brainwashed by conspiracy theories one needs to be to make such a claim. I'm embarrassed for you tbh.


Anyway, try taking off the tinfoil hat, doing some research into what related tech is ongoing and just generally educating yourself in the field, as you shown you need it.
« Audaciter calomniare semper aliquid haeret »
Francis Bacon. De dignitate et augmentis scientiarum, VIII, 2


So now that’s out of the way, let’s focus on arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
It's not the goal pursued by who? There is a vast array of related research and development going on around the world and there is no overarching control or power over it.
Are you aware that people don’t need to meet in dark alleys to follow the same goal? They can also be driven by the same ideology.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
As inferred above, you clearly don't understand how R&D in trans-humanist related tech and it's closely linked medical science tech R&D works in the highly competitive global technology market. As I say, of course some related tech is either exclusively for or was at some time for military application, but not all of it can be for obvious reasons. I read about cutting edge R&D in this field every week, and know who funds much of it, so know it's not only classified black budget government only tech! That stuff is never made public for obvious reasons, but that is just a part of the global development in the field, much of which happens at uni's etc.
Is there an argument coming? Because all I read is assumptions… should I take your word for granted, then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
You used the term propaganda again but which groups do you think are pushing the above and below claims?

Researchers? Academics? Progressives?
Reality is plural, my friend. Pick your poison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
What a ridiculous claim as it's so easily refuted from a thousand sources. Please go ahead and try and cite evidence that promotes the idea that publically accessable medical science was no worse 200 years ago to now. He's just one contrary source:



Source
Did you even read me, or just trying to show yourself? Because I did say just that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emos Eno View Post
All the populations studies are based on the comparaison between now and the industrial revolution, when, it is true, people were dying young due to the miserable conditions of work.
And medical science was not even the point, why would you want medicine when you're not sick?


Quote:
Originally Posted by barryfell View Post
That's a non-sequitur reply.
Because you can’t follow, doesn’t mean my answer doesn’t.
See, that’s the point when discussing with people, as one can’t know everything we learn from each other, but you’re so absorbed by yourself, it might be a difficult step for you.

I've spent enough time trying to show I'm all for an honest debate, so I won't reply to any more facepalms and silly demonization.

Old 1 week ago
  #453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Okay, forget the Mexican girl ...She gets fired from the nursing home because a robot is wiping ass. So she goes to a Jack-in-the-Box to apply.... but they replaced everyone with robots.... so she has to go on welfare. Is that better?
I don't think it is.

Will there be anymore welfare, then?
That's a question worth asking.
Old 1 week ago
  #454
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emos Eno View Post
I don't think it is.

Will there be anymore welfare, then?
That's a question worth asking.
Basic income like Musk and others are talking about. Not sure there is another way.
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Old 1 week ago
  #455
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuthinupmysleeve View Post
Basic income like Musk and others are talking about. Not sure there is another way.
As much as I'd like it to be true, history has already cleared those debates long ago.

Problem is, there has been two world wars since, a lot of consumerism and a pinch of terror(ism), people have forgotten and are now focused on daily needs, self-improvement and avoiding the hard facts.

If you want to know, you have to go to the texts. Sorry mate but there's no short cuts, you can't have a real understanding after a few Youtube videos, as much a I'd like it (again), my time as yours I suppose, being precious.

Musk and all the others are just new variations of Proudhon's ideas, we have the same people in France and there's many all around the world, actually most people are "proudhonists".
It basically is a rearrangement of the categories of the alienation we are now living in, and no way to go past that.

The debate Marx/Proudhon solve this issue once and for all. That's what you want to look at for a deeper understanding of these concepts.
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Old 1 week ago
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
The dystopian future...
Indeed.




Old 1 week ago
  #457
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Yes I shake my head when I hear the "basic income" argument all over again..... it's like the next generation is going to have to start where economics left off in the mid-19th century, and figure it all out again, maybe fight 3 or 4 more world wars, etc.

Put the administration and distribution of all resources, production and capital under full, global, democratic control, with no financial incentives allowed into the system. Easily said; still near-impossible to do, even without having to struggle with political and economic structures arrayed powerfully precisely against such a possibility.

Elon Musk, the guy living off of $4.9 billion of US government welfare, at the taxpayers' expense. Mainly because he who pontificates loudest, gets the most money, I guess, and Ray Kurzweil's old hat now.
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Old 1 week ago
  #458
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Put the administration and distribution of all resources, production and capital under full, global, democratic control, with no financial incentives allowed into the system.
That is not the idea of basic income. As the name clearly suggests, basic income should be basic and only cover basic needs. It doesn't mean that people can't or shouldn't earn any money above and beyond this basic income.

Basic income can coexist or be part of a capitalist system (or another system if we can come up with a better one).

Alistair
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Old 1 week ago
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
That is not the idea of basic income. As the name clearly suggests, basic income should be basic and only cover basic needs. It doesn't mean that people can't or shouldn't earn any money above and beyond this basic income.

Basic income can coexist or be part of a capitalist system (or another system if we can come up with a better one).

Alistair
And where, prey tell, is all this "magic money" going to come from?
Old 1 week ago
  #460
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audslu's Avatar
 

That Rembrandt project looks interesting, impressive detail.

But i still keep thinking if generative AI like that can be called AI when it can't grow any further by itself. I mean simple weak AI can still give results (including practical use) according to what is designed for. It also shows that "GOFAI" can be pretty powerful even if it cant imitate a life being.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegreengold View Post
That's how you'll know you've created an intelligent robot.
Sex & food = intelligence ? thats our primitive urges

vanity = intelligence ? (true inquiry) ...maybe a sociality complex utilizing intelligence, anyhow i guess it belongs to the interpersonal intelligence category
Old 1 week ago
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audslu View Post

Sex & food = intelligence ? thats our primitive urges

category
Machines are incapable of intelligence. Everything so far is just clever computer programming, and then they slap "AI" on it as a selling buzzword.

Personally I'm not afraid of a pocket calculator.
Old 1 week ago
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
And where, prey tell, is all this "magic money" going to come from?
We have something similar to basic income in Germany.
It's not called basic income and it's not unconditional, you have to accept any job that is offered to you as well as prove that you search for jobs, it is too low, etc.
It's called unemployment insurance.
Or rather, "unemployment benefits 2".
YOu get it when your unemployment insurance ceases aafter 1 year.

The respective agency / ministry makes a small plus per annum btw.

Its not magic.
What's "magic money" is the process of creating fiat money but that's another story.
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Old 1 week ago
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
We have something similar to basic income in Germany.
It's not called basic income and it's not unconditional, you have to accept any job that is offered to you as well as prove that you search for jobs, it is too low, etc.
It's called unemployment insurance.
Or rather, "unemployment benefits 2".
YOu get it when your unemployment insurance ceases aafter 1 year.

The respective agency / ministry makes a small plus per annum btw.

Its not magic.
What's "magic money" is the process of creating fiat money but that's another story.
I know, one of my friends lives in Austria. 50% tax on everyone, and then everyone is on government programs. Sounds self defeating. No thanks.
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Old 1 week ago
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
I know, one of my friends lives in Austria. 50% tax on everyone, and then everyone is on government programs. Sounds self defeating. No thanks.
I assume the average Austrian worker is more wealthy than the average US worker.
And more healthy, has a longer life expectancy, better food, more spare time.
Better sex life.
I don't have numbers to back this up but I am quite confident it's true.
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Old 1 week ago
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
I assume the average Austrian worker is more wealthy than the average US worker.
And more healthy, has a longer life expectancy, better food, more spare time.
Better sex life.
I don't have numbers to back this up but I am quite confident it's true.
Who wants to live in government housing and have no car?

And I don't want the government telling me if and when I can get the money I paid into it back. "The government knows what's best for you, since you obviously can't handle your own money".... no thanks.
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Old 1 week ago
  #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Who wants to live in government housing and have no car?

And I don't want the government telling me if and when I can get the money I paid into it back. "The government knows what's best for you, since you obviously can't handle your own money".... no thanks.
You are free not to, and to take any job you want.
Just like in the US.

But you are not forced to starve in a tent or a cardboard box when the AI has just taken that job.
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Old 1 week ago
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
You are free not to, and to take any job you want.
Just like in the US.

But you are not forced to starve in a tent or a cardboard box when the AI has just taken that job.
There is always a job for you if you look hard enough.

And I know, Europeans attack this problem differently. But I was taught to make it on my own steam, never take government money, and I never have.

And the girl from Austria wants to move here and live with me. How do you explain that?
Old 1 week ago
  #468
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LOL
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Old 1 week ago
  #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
That is not the idea of basic income. As the name clearly suggests, basic income should be basic and only cover basic needs. It doesn't mean that people can't or shouldn't earn any money above and beyond this basic income.

Basic income can coexist or be part of a capitalist system (or another system if we can come up with a better one).

Alistair
Define "basic needs."

Cf. Shakespeare, "King Lear"
Old 1 week ago
  #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
Define "basic needs."

Cf. Shakespeare, "King Lear"
Food, Clothing, Shelter, Privacy,
Absence of Pain, Health,
Occupation that meets ones talents.
Communication
Education
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Old 1 week ago
  #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
Food, Clothing, Shelter, Privacy,
Absence of Pain, Health,
Occupation that meets ones talents.
Communication
Education
Hahahaha...absence of pain?

Science fiction.
Old 1 week ago
  #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Hahahaha...absence of pain?

Science fiction.
Science, not fiction.
And culture:
8000 years of knowledge in that field, minimum.

May I ask where you live?
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Old 1 week ago
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
Science, not fiction.
And culture:
8000 years of knowledge in that field, minimum.

May I ask where you live?
Texas, we have had six flags here.
Old 1 week ago
  #474
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Basic income can coexist or be part of a capitalist system (or another system if we can come up with a better one).
Basic income is part of the capitalist system, so we don't have to come up with a better one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
"The government knows what's best for you, since you obviously can't handle your own money".... no thanks.
That's the spirit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
Food, Clothing, Shelter, Privacy,
Absence of Pain, Health,
Occupation that meets ones talents.
Communication
Education
You've summed it well and we all want that, all of us. So how?


Millions of people have fought and died so we can have a legacy ang go forward. Let's not forget them. Tons on pages have been written so we can rely on and not repeat their mistakes over and over again.

"We should meet in a place where there is no darkness."
G. Orwell. 1984.
Old 1 week ago
  #475
Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
Its not magic.
What's "magic money" is the process of creating fiat money but that's another story.
All money is fiat money and that's exactly the story you want to look into.
Old 1 week ago
  #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emos Eno View Post
That's the spirit.
.

Hahahahha... Yes.


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Old 1 week ago
  #477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
That soundtrack though, even after a thousand times it always gets me!
Old 1 week ago
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emos Eno View Post
Basic income is part of the capitalist system, so we don't have to come up with a better one.



That's the spirit.



You've summed it well and we all want that, all of us. So how?


Millions of people have fought and died so we can have a legacy ang go forward. Let's not forget them. Tons on pages have been written so we can rely on and not repeat their mistakes over and over again.

"We should meet in a place where there is no darkness."
G. Orwell. 1984.
True.
Basic income could be an intermediate step to something else.
I am not a huge fan but it's better than starving,
and better then murderig the masses.

For years I had been a fan of Gesells Natural Economic Order.
Today, not so much any more, but still a model that is worth looking into.

And it's a model towards which a transition is possible.

It's very business driven however, most people couln't tell it apart
from captalism, cause most peole belive captalism means free business or something,
free market economy and private enterprises.
Of course captalism doesn't mean that.
Old 1 week ago
  #479
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monomer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noisewagon View Post
Machines are incapable of intelligence. Everything so far is just clever computer programming, and then they slap "AI" on it as a selling buzzword.

Personally I'm not afraid of a pocket calculator.
You'd have to look it up but 'intelligence' is a much wider term then the way you use it here.

Basically any system that can act on the environment to complete a task can be said to have some intelligence.
There is human intelligence which takes that concept to a whole new level.
But even plants have intelligence, despite not even having a brain.

And machines certainly can have intelligence. But it won't be the same kind of intelisgence as we have. Well, unless we mimick the particular informational complexity that proceeds in our brains.

So its good to make a distinction in the kind of intelligence you talk about.
Old 1 week ago
  #480
Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
True.
Basic income could be an intermediate step to something else.
I've just said the opposite, actually.
But again it's not me speaking, I'm just relaying historical events.

Basic income, like any other non-radical option exists precisely for that purpose, so people get lost in the infinite variations of the actual system... and nothing changes.

I'm sorry to repeat myself indefinitely but you have to go the texts, history happened, people fought and died for change, it's not a TED talk.
On that precise matter (the rearrangement of the alienated categories of the capitalist system), the debate Marx against Proudhon, Blanqui, Bakunin and all the other non-radicals at the The Geneva Congress (1866), close this chapter once and for all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by memristor View Post
most peole belive captalism means free business or something,
free market economy and private enterprises.
Of course captalism doesn't mean that.
It's me being cheeky here... but what does it mean, then?
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