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Unmastered album releases (Unmasters) Plugin Bundles
Old 27th July 2014
  #1
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hyperliteBo's Avatar
 

Unmastered album releases (Unmasters)

Hey all !

I'm looking for albums that are not mastered, and I don't mean of you guys (sorry) but from commercial artists.
I'm one of those guys that thinks that many albums are totally overcompressed due to the loudness war and often sounds like ****.

I have some already and they sound SO MUCH better than their CD versions.
Most of them I have found via the Dynamic Range website (Album list - Dynamic Range Database)
These ones I have:

Adele - 21 (I hated this one for a long time but the unmastered tracks are really good and now I'm a fan :p)

Red Hot Chili Peppers - I'm With You
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Californication


Queens of the Stone Age - Songs for the Deaf (Awesome because the cd is extremely compressed)

Wolfmother - Wolfmother


I would love to find these because they should have been released but I can't find the anywhere online:

System Of A Down - Steal This Album!

Mastodon - Leviathan
(I found a illegal torrent but it is stuck at 12%)

Die Antwoord - $O$

Rodrigo Y Gabriela And C.U.B.A.

Ofcourse all other are welcome !!
Old 27th July 2014
  #2
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hyperliteBo's Avatar
 

EXAMPLE:

Waveform of the song "No One Knows" by QOTSA

Old 27th July 2014
  #3
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A lot of albums from 20-40 years ago, even some Grammy winners, would be considered 'unmastered' by 21st century standards.

What is being asked of mastering engineers is ridiculous!
Old 27th July 2014
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
A lot of albums from 20-40 years ago, even some Grammy winners, would be considered 'unmastered' by 21st century standards.

What is being asked of mastering engineers is ridiculous!
Yes absolutely !

I have many albums of that area and the reason why people think that "old" records sound better is indeed due to the fact that they are more dynamic!
But I'm looking for real modern unmastered releases.
Red hot chili Peppers is a really good example of the loudness war. In the beginning their albums were all very dynamic and now they are one compressed junk.

So short I'm looking for albums that have a different mix than their CD counterpart
Old 27th July 2014
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperliteBo View Post
Hey all !

I'm looking for albums that are not mastered...
Mentioned "unmastered" albums are not official releases by artists and labels. It looks like some fan or anti-loudness warriors project. I've heard somewhere one song comparison from Adele album and it seems to be official release processed through de-clipper (a la Izotope RX or Stereo Tool DeClipper) and volume adjusted with intention to undo peak limiting done at official mastering.
It is pretty questionable, how is it done and how this sounds across whole album.

To your question, I'm not really sure, if someone at this forum provide you music or point you to torrents or download sites, where you'll probably find more of these processed records.

Michal
Old 27th July 2014
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Mentioned "unmastered" albums are not official releases by artists and labels. It looks like some fan or anti-loudness warriors project. I've heard somewhere one song comparison from Adele album and it seems to be official release processed through de-clipper (a la Izotope RX or Stereo Tool DeClipper) and volume adjusted with intention to undo peak limiting done at official mastering.
It is pretty questionable, how is it done and how this sounds across whole album.

To your question, I'm not really sure, if someone at this forum provide you music or point you to torrents or download sites, where you'll probably find more of these processed records.

Michal
It is possible that these are not official releases by the artist or label but I strongly doubt the fact that these are just "fixed" versions of the CD.
Look at my example of QOTSA...
Old 27th July 2014
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperliteBo View Post
It is possible that these are not official releases by the artist or label but I strongly doubt the fact that these are just "fixed" versions of the CD.
Look at my example of QOTSA...
If is not official release by label, then it has to leak somewhere in production chain (mixing, mastering studio, label staff..), it will be major problem for labels. Here are my doubts.

Picture of waveform doesn't show, that it isn't processed by de-clipper.
Try that for yourself with for instance Izotope RX, there should be trial on their site. Optionally you can combine it with some expander to your taste. But you can easily create new +6dB peaks just by using of that declipper and adjusting its threshold lower.

Michal
Old 27th July 2014
  #8
Gear Guru
Old Stuff

No Frontiers by Mary Black. Original copies, I don't know if more recent versions have been changed.

The Interference album. interference Ireland | Interference | CD Baby Music Store

Many's the Foolish Youth, and Holly Wood, by The Voice Squad.

DD
Old 27th July 2014
  #9
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
A lot of albums from 20-40 years ago, even some Grammy winners, would be considered 'unmastered' by 21st century standards.
I wouldn't usually, but I'll bite.............

RE: Statement quoted: I doubt this.

Because mastering doesn't mean making loud or "ruining".

Albums 40 years ago would have been on the vinyl format, and a lot since also, why would these by different to today's "standards".

What are "mastering standards"?

I have loud / quiet/ dynamic / blown out on purpose / blown out due to bad mixing practice / really bassy / really trebly masters coming out of here.

Yes, digital and CD masters too.
Old 28th July 2014
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
I wouldn't usually, but I'll bite.............

RE: Statement quoted: I doubt this.

Because mastering doesn't mean making loud or "ruining".

Albums 40 years ago would have been on the vinyl format, and a lot since also, why would these by different to today's "standards".

What are "mastering standards"?

I have loud / quiet/ dynamic / blown out on purpose / blown out due to bad mixing practice / really bassy / really trebly masters coming out of here.

Yes, digital and CD masters too.

Mastering standards are driven by client demands. See the image in post#2: waveform on bottom fills entire available space.


Something from say 1982 or the '60s might not. There's usually a lot of white showing between the peaks - especially in the verses, whereas the choruses swell. I'd say that's more musical and more listenable.


Sometimes I wish digital had never been invented, and that we were still in vinyl. With digital, the genie was let out of the bottle. Look at atomic energy - it has the potential to be used destructively or constructively. Unfortunately, since 2000 at least, digital audio has gone down the latter path, because it can. it is more forgiving of ignorant demands by clients than was vinyl/analog.


To music listeners/appreciators, I say hold on to your originals, avoid "remasters"(squared-off peaks aren't an improvement over natural peaks & parabolas) and be discriminating with modern releases.
Old 28th July 2014
  #11
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Verified Member
Do you genuinely think all modern music is wrecked by mastering? are you a single issue forum robot?

Not all remasters are blown out and loud anyway, that's a total myth you seem to love pushing around here..
Old 28th July 2014
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Do you genuinely think all modern music is wrecked by mastering? are you a single issue forum robot?

Not all remasters are blown out and loud anyway, that's a total myth you seem to love pushing around here..
It is "wrecked" by client demands(the artist, the labels); the engineers just carry out those wishes within the format limitations.


As for "blown out" remasters: I speak from personal experience along with what I have read from listeners on countless forums from one end of the web to the other.

It's no "myth" joe: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/thread...-heard.304901/ It's out there.
Old 28th July 2014
  #13
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msmucr wrote: "... it will be major problem for labels.."

Exposing their dirty tricks? You bet! lol!
Old 28th July 2014
  #14
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ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
A lot of albums from 20-40 years ago, even some Grammy winners, would be considered 'unmastered' by 21st century standards.
Old 28th July 2014
  #15
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_K_Man View Post
It is "wrecked" by client demands(the artist, the labels); the engineers just carry out those wishes within the format limitations.


As for "blown out" remasters: I speak from personal experience along with what I have read from listeners on countless forums from one end of the web to the other.

It's no "myth" joe: Worst or loudest remaster you have heard? | Steve Hoffman Music Forums It's out there.
Do you think the "music industry" is some kind of centralized force?

Go out and enjoy some music, whole worlds of music hardly touch 0 if ever... maybe instead of waiting for any new post on here to be spun to your weird crusade..
Old 28th July 2014
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Do you think the "music industry" is some kind of centralized force?

Go out and enjoy some music, whole worlds of music hardly touch 0 if ever... maybe instead of waiting for any new post on here to be spun to your weird crusade..
Deny Deny Deny.. That's the govt. official way! lol

Did you actually read the comments in that thread link? So they're all wrong - and so am I for that matter! What they must be hearing is some 'imbalance' or mismatch in their setup. Perhaps their speaker drivers are all shred. Must be the wax in their ears. Maybe, just maybe, the DAW software many of them have is lying to them: those waveforms really aren't compressed or brickwalled. Could be the contrast setting on their monitor.

Yep. You're absolutely right. Myself, and those folks on Steve Hoffman, clearly don't know what a good CD sounds like.


As to the O.P. here: Do not give up in your endeavors to acquire premastered versions of whatever music you fancy. Be polite but persistent in your dealings with band producers or managers. Good luck!
Old 28th July 2014
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Go out and enjoy some music, whole worlds of music hardly touch 0 if ever... maybe instead of waiting for any new post on here to be spun to your weird crusade
I think this crusade is not that weird actually (maybe just expressed not in the best possible way), it's rather indication of some kind of rationality people tend to forget about these days. Certainly more weird is what some of us do with some masters
Wow, might it be I just spent too much time with internet today

Art
Old 28th July 2014
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtSta View Post
I think this crusade is not that weird actually (maybe just expressed not in the best possible way), it's rather indication of some kind of rationality people tend to forget about these days. Certainly more weird is what some of us do with some masters
Wow, might it be I just spent too much time with internet today

Art

Thanks for the open mind and understanding. It is a rare gem in these and other forums.
Old 28th July 2014
  #19
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didn't you get banned from the hoffman forums k man?
Old 28th July 2014
  #20
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Old 29th July 2014
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperliteBo View Post
EXAMPLE:

Waveform of the song "No One Knows" by QOTSA

I'm sorry but it particular example does not look so bad. Quite a little of peak limiting. You can see clearly almost all dynamics in the middle of the waveform and only "tops" shaved. Back to the topic: In early 2000's Weezer put on their website demos (live-in-studio recordings) of upocoming album songs. They souneed so great - being not mastered, which means "smashed" these days. When the album came out (I thi nk it was "Maladroit") it was overproduced, distorted and just bad. Didn't bring my memories just like the demo songs...
Old 29th July 2014
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sat159p1 View Post
I'm sorry but it particular example does not look so bad. Quite a little of peak limiting. You can see clearly almost all dynamics in the middle of the waveform and only "tops" shaved. Back to the topic: In early 2000's Weezer put on their website demos (live-in-studio recordings) of upocoming album songs. They souneed so great - being not mastered, which means "smashed" these days. When the album came out (I thi nk it was "Maladroit") it was overproduced, distorted and just bad. Didn't bring my memories just like the demo songs...
"It's not so bad" = "Can we take some more?"

This mentality eventually leads to brick walls.

Stand your ground.
Old 29th July 2014
  #23
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Robo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sat159p1 View Post
I'm sorry but it particular example does not look so bad. Quite a little of peak limiting. You can see clearly almost all dynamics in the middle of the waveform and only "tops" shaved.
Hi mate,

If you look closely you can see a pretty big amount of peak limiting on this, I'd say 12dB or more.

Take the area of the R channel in line vertically with the word Knows(.flac). The relatively quiet section above the letters 'no' of the word 'Knows' in the unlimited version must be 12 or more dB down, and if you look at the corresponding section in the R channel of the limited master you'll see it is now peaking near 0dB, perhaps -1dB. So if you took a parallel line across from that peak in the unlimited version, everything louder than that line would be limited, which is an awful lot, and more than just the peaks. That level of processing is clearly damaging the audio, taking out a fair chunk of the dynamics and for not much more than increasing loudness.

Cheers

Last edited by Robo; 29th July 2014 at 03:14 PM.. Reason: Make clearer
Old 7th August 2014
  #24
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hyperliteBo's Avatar
 

Ok this went a little off topic...
Not all modern produced music is bad but many could bet better if the hadn't brickwalled the **** out of it IMO.
Many old recordings are dynamic indeed due the fact that they were mixed for vinyl and vinyl can't handle much compression, but even in the beginning era of CD it was not a trend to brickwall everything.
I just started this topic because like Qotsa and Adele these unmastered versions just sound so much better.
Would it be so hard for artist to sell a digital version of the vinyl mix? Because many artists these days do release a vinyl so the mix is there...
Old 9th September 2016
  #25
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Why not just normalize instead of compressing/limiting?
Old 10th September 2016
  #26
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Processing is not mastering

Mastering includes processing
Old 15th September 2016
  #27
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oh god this thread
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