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Dedicated mastering Converters? What will I gian? Consoles
Old 26th July 2014
  #1
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Dedicated mastering Converters? What will I gian?

I have an Antelope Orion for my existing converter which I do all my mixing and mastering on. I mostly produce EDM Dance Music , R&B, Hip Hop and Pop. I'm looking into upgrading the way I print my final mix and then either master it myself or send that final mix out for mastering. My question is with the converter I have not, with the genre' of music I make will I see a difference printing to something like the Lavry, Apogee Symphony, Burl B2 or the Lynx Hilo vs the Antelope Orion? My biggest concern would be BASS.
Old 26th July 2014
  #2
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Possibly not a lot, I'm sure the Antelope is a very good converter.
Old 26th July 2014
  #3
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It goes like this as a matter of priority: engineer, room & treatment (including the arrangement of equipment in said room), monitors, outboard gear/plugins, DAC. If everything else is already top notch, then you can probably hear the difference between good converters and great converters. Otherwise, you're probably fine with what you have.
Old 26th July 2014
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not clear; converter for only monitoring? or do you cater an analog chain?
Old 26th July 2014
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
not clear; converter for only monitoring? or do you cater an analog chain?
I sum/mix everything through a control 2802 console and print to the Orion from the console's 2 bus. After that I only use ozone 5 to complete the mastering process.
Old 29th July 2014
  #6
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The Orion should be fine. Most modern converters are adequate.
Old 29th July 2014
  #7
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in my experience the orion is quite far away from being very accurate. to me its sounding smeary.
I find the sonic differences between different converters still very obvious at all.
Old 29th July 2014
  #8
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for the record I have not herd it.. and the orion is obviously designed for large track count mix down at a cheap price. It is a fact that were in the age of sample accuracy from a computer science standpoint with most all well made conversion. But other factors can influence the sound.

experimentation is key, if you only are using two channels you don't need what the box was designed for. demo a few converters and see what happens.

Im currently happy with the hilo.
Old 29th July 2014
  #9
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All parts in the chain (at the beginning the acoutics) should be on a very high level to hear clearly differences. The difference of my Prism ADA and a Forssell is not as much as 1/4db of a highshelf of any EQ - for example.
At this time I mostly switch between Lake People and Forssell.
Old 29th July 2014
  #10
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I don't know if this is true but from what I read in other threads there are certain converters that have different characteristics or it's been mentioned they just sound better. If there is a converter that is noticeably "fuller" , "Richer" or naturally adds bottom to my mix without "pushing" plugins on it, that's what I'm looking for. I'm leaning towards the lavry AD11 or AD10 because I heard it has a good low end. If there's a converter that handles being pushed harder, that's probably what I've looking for.
Old 29th July 2014
  #11
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also lavry blue and burl are good for what you're looking for
Old 29th July 2014
  #12
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Most mastering converters attempt to be totally transparent. None are, but the good ones are all totally usable. I wouldn't get too excited about the differences between a decent modern AD and DA, most of totally usable in a professional context. I use a Mytek DA and a modified Lucid AD, both not too expensive, I often ask engineers and producers attending to listen to the chain in and out with the source, rarely can they tell it's so transparent.

If you want colour, 3d excitement etc.. try something like a transformer or valve..
Old 30th July 2014
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aszacca View Post
also lavry blue and burl are good for what you're looking for
What's the difference between the Lavry Blue and that Lavry Black?
Old 30th July 2014
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Most mastering converters attempt to be totally transparent. None are, but the good ones are all totally usable. I wouldn't get too excited about the differences between a decent modern AD and DA, most of totally usable in a professional context. I use a Mytek DA and a modified Lucid AD, both not too expensive, I often ask engineers and producers attending to listen to the chain in and out with the source, rarely can they tell it's so transparent.

If you want colour, 3d excitement etc.. try something like a transformer or valve..
Other than transparency, are there converters that are better for winning loud wars? Unfortunately the Genre's I work with have this battle at full tilt.
Old 30th July 2014
  #15
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Its true there are small differences. But any competent hardware it will be be very small. back in the 90's it was a bigger issue.

But yes, there are different goals with some converters. some are made to have more color or characteristics. Mastering hardware like said before are trying to be transparent to the point of not being problematic or you could say getting In the way. But with good tools and a good ear we can compensate to what ever the sonic goal might be. A good converter should have the least impact on the sound. Most achieve that perfectly.

There are usually bigger problems / impact to worrie about with the rest of the set up.


Experiment, demo units in your environment. don't make quick decisions. or you will just be reading reviews in circles. Find what you like.. don't spend money if its not needed.
Old 30th July 2014
  #16
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if you post your mixes you may discover from comments that converter is the last piece you need to be worried about. peace.
Old 30th July 2014
  #17
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"Dedicated mastering Converters? What will I gain?" - respect on this forum Probably the same case with high end cables. Peace.
Old 30th July 2014
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I don't know if this is true but from what I read in other threads there are certain converters that have different characteristics or it's been mentioned they just sound better. If there is a converter that is noticeably "fuller" , "Richer" or naturally adds bottom to my mix without "pushing" plugins on it, that's what I'm looking for. I'm leaning towards the lavry AD11 or AD10 because I heard it has a good low end. If there's a converter that handles being pushed harder, that's probably what I've looking for.
People like to exaggerate. The differences are small, and without a good monitoring chain, you might not notice them at all.
Old 30th July 2014
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
Other than transparency, are there converters that are better for winning loud wars? Unfortunately the Genre's I work with have this battle at full tilt.
Not at all, loudness has nothing to do with conversion in reality.
Old 30th July 2014
  #20
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Giuseppe Zaccaria's Avatar
 

all types on converters print there own character to program material.
its the analogue ciruit around the chip that's make the different.
i know loads of ME who's using different converters along with outboard for specific kinds of music and/or specific mixes.
in the past i had 3 types of converters then i just said f**k that,i'll do it with just my outboard and went for the cleanest and flattest conversion.
easy chain,less cabling,no oversampling.

i dont know the different between lavry black and blue cause i never heard the black,but,i know the blue AD is very good sounding with Rock music,has a slightly pushed bass curve and mid-high that is very pleasant.
so it could be also right for your kind of music.
Old 30th July 2014
  #21
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the nuances in converters are overrated. all modern premium converters are quite good. and yes there are some tonal nuances, but not really as better or worse, more preference. decent PSU, decent analog stage, decent ASIO drivers. all good.
Old 30th July 2014
  #22
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I have an Antelope Orion for my existing converter which I do all my mixing and mastering on. I mostly produce EDM Dance Music , R&B, Hip Hop and Pop. I'm looking into upgrading the way I print my final mix and then either master it myself or send that final mix out for mastering. My question is with the converter I have not, with the genre' of music I make will I see a difference printing to something like the Lavry, Apogee Symphony, Burl B2 or the Lynx Hilo vs the Antelope Orion? My biggest concern would be BASS.
Some converters have a noticeable tone/sound, like Burl and JCF, ..some can take a little more punishment at the a/d stage like Lavry Gold, some Prism, etc. without breaking up as much, some are more transparent than others. Some can be a bit grainy or not as focused comparatively. Depends if they're for the loop or monitoring d/a. Quite personal, so best to try before you buy. gl
Old 30th July 2014
  #23
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If you had to print a mix for someone. And you're handed an Orion 32 or a Lavry Blue, which one would you choose and why? I guess the point of my question is this. I KNOW my mixing needs to improve. But, after spending all the time getting the mix right will I get a "better print" from a converter that was "made" for mastering?
Old 31st July 2014
  #24
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Honestly your question has been answered here. the next step would be for you to demo and find out with hands on experience.

Personally I would look at every aspect of your chain first. then woriie about conversion. if you were upgrading from a low end converter it would be different.
Old 31st July 2014
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umulamahri View Post
Personally I would look at every aspect of your chain first. then woriie about conversion. if you were upgrading from a low end converter it would be different.
+1. I wish I could bottle the nervous energy expended by those worrying about their perfectly good conversion on here. I could use it to run the studio for months!

FWIW I've NEVER been in a professional situation where someone has been lamenting the conversion of the bog standard 192 or similar.
Old 31st July 2014
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umulamahri View Post
Honestly your question has been answered here. the next step would be for you to demo and find out with hands on experience.

Personally I would look at every aspect of your chain first. then woriie about conversion. if you were upgrading from a low end converter it would be different.
I guess that's my point. Some people say that the Orion 32 converters are of "Prosumer" quality. But, If you guys say it's good enough to "hang with the big dogs", thats' good enough for me.
Old 31st July 2014
  #27
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If you are into clipping Prism or Lavry Gold will get you loudness that style. I don't think its worth paying for these days as IMO there are better options for loud than clipping a Lavry.

Other than that the differences can be so close that most people cant pick them in a blind test. Certainly not night and day.

Half a dB on a fantastic eq will outdo the subtle differences between high end converters.
Old 31st July 2014
  #28
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Shawn Hatfield's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I don't know if this is true but from what I read in other threads there are certain converters that have different characteristics or it's been mentioned they just sound better. If there is a converter that is noticeably "fuller" , "Richer" or naturally adds bottom to my mix without "pushing" plugins on it, that's what I'm looking for.
I'd check out the Burl first. It does exactly what you describe.
Old 31st July 2014
  #29
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SASMastering's Avatar
Seems like you possibly have what you need already but for people reading it at face value:

You will hear deeper into sound which is often obscured by clocking jitter, analogue distortions, power supply restrictions and inferior converter support circuitry. When this is all working at the highest level possible and in unison you will hear detail, clarity, transients, imaging, tonal accuracy and depth in music.

This clarifies all the small issues you are being paid to resolve as a mastering engineer. And also everything that needs to remain as close to "as is" as possible, given the production aims.
This is true for the entire chain through to a set of ears.
Old 31st July 2014
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
Half a dB on a fantastic eq will outdo the subtle differences between high end converters.
While I'd like to believe this, it's not really true. The viscous problems introduced by clocking issues are *very* relevant. They are really hard to find and the damage they introduce is irreversible. In 2014, clocking is still a particularly difficult task (= expensive). The clock is probably the last issue, afaik, this is the most expensive part.

An EQ cannot reverse non-linearity.
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