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please help.. at a loss - digital pops...
Old 3rd November 2013
  #91
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John Moran's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by t_d View Post
but what do i do, ultimately?
You go with what works reliably or you continue to suffer.

FWIW, I don't try to use the latest and greatest, especially in computers. I use known, proven industrial strength items and then don't change things once it's solid.
These are tools, nothing more, nothing less and if a tool doesn't work, it's not worth owning. As one of my mentors taught me, it's got to have aircraft levels of reliability, ie, it's not going to fail at 30,000 feet because it's along way down with a sudden stop at the end.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #92
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if i had to guess I would try lowering the UAD bandwidth allocation or...the firewire link speed and target link speed to 400 down from the 800 default.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #93
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t_d's Avatar
i'm not dealing with the Apollo at this point. thinking that was the problem i swapped it for an Orion 32.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dene View Post
if i had to guess I would try lowering the UAD bandwidth allocation or...the firewire link speed and target link speed to 400 down from the 800 default.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #94
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t_d's Avatar
so is the conclusion here that the new iMacs simply aren't compatible with the Apollo 16 or Orion? or do you all feel this is a situation unique to me and my particular setup?
Old 3rd November 2013
  #95
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Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Possibly both? (iMac compatibility and sounds unique - so far). As John said above, suspicion is a driver compatibility issue, and yes you've got to change just one variable at a time.
We recently made some hardware & software upgrades, but using a refurbished Mac Pro with SSD system drive, 4 x 4TB internal sound drives and RAID backup.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moran View Post
You go with what works reliably or you continue to suffer.

FWIW, I don't try to use the latest and greatest, especially in computers. I use known, proven industrial strength items and then don't change things once it's solid.
These are tools, nothing more, nothing less and if a tool doesn't work, it's not worth owning. As one of my mentors taught me, it's got to have aircraft levels of reliability, ie, it's not going to fail at 30,000 feet because it's along way down with a sudden stop at the end.
True,

But with this train of thought in the computer world, you would half to get workstation grade hardware with a xeon core with ecc ram memory. witch has better certification and military grade caps / chokes on the mobo power stages. with a gold plus power supply.


But I wonder if the arora and the orion have the same usb/firewire chips? witch may be untested by apple for the imac. seems possible at this point. Workstation grade pc and mac pro are generally are certified to work with more configurations than the consumer products. Because developers depend on demanding, complicated set ups.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #97
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dangerousben's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by t_d View Post
it's happening with all of my audio programs... dp, peak, quattro, sound forge.

is your 2013 iMac the one that just came out 3 weeks ago? that's the one i'm troubleshooting here. maybe it's time to try the aurora.. maybe it is indeed the Apollo 16 and the Orion that don't work.... but it just seems it's the iMac...
No sorry, mine is the mid 2013 model. I didn't notice, that they've brought out a new one yet.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #98
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...sorry, what I was alluding to is that I think that the problem is related to some sort of issue with the firewire chipset that is preventing it from maintaining a consistent bandwidth.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #99
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t_d's Avatar
well, i'm giving up on this for now. i'm keeping the new iMac because it's better than my old mac pro. and sticking with the fireface 800 for now.. in fact, getting a 2nd one to expand my outputs for the summing mixer. of course, the HEDD is still doing the AD DA for my mastering chain... so all is good.. yes, the orion or apollo analog outs may be better than the fireface... but the interface has been serving me very well for the last few years so i'll keep going until apple or someone figures out the problem with these computers.

3 weeks of this has been enough, time to put it behind me and get back to work.
Old 3rd November 2013
  #100
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At least you tried.


Cant be down forever.. Good luck!
Old 4th November 2013
  #101
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owensands's Avatar
If you know RME works why not use RME then instead of apollo or orion?
You can use RME front end and use hedd and or orion with madi extreme card(has great drivers;the best and also has AES for HEDD and madi for orion).
Old 4th November 2013
  #102
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Dead Horse's Avatar
 

Just a small question.... new iMac "hd" works with Fireface ... is that it worked in the configuration with the fusion drive "iMac"? Have test it?
Old 4th November 2013
  #103
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escape set's Avatar
Heard there were issues w the fusion drive imacs.

Sent from my SPH-L710
Old 4th November 2013
  #104
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Chris Chapelle's Avatar
 

Hello!

I look fast at the whole thread. Maybe it has been said.

2 weeks ago I had almost the same problem after upgrading to new Macmini! I'm using SB SE and a Motu traveler just for AES and Spdif!

Clicks and pops. Went crazy, I tested all the possibilities on earth, had a look at everything on the web.
Then I open the Motu, test the +5V and -5V. -5V regulator seems to be sick! I changed it, a SMD from linear tech.
All is normal now!

Hope that helps.

Best regards.

Chris.
Old 4th November 2013
  #105
Lives for gear
I know I am late to the party but ...

Any way you kept the original 10.8.4 installation?

In pro tools land 10.8.5 totally broke a bunch of stuff.

THe fact that the RME box makes it all work right really points to driver issues (IMO). THe fact that other boxes are having similar problems makes this more suspicious as an OS issue. I have had 3 late 2013 imacs (just geting the BTO right for me) and one thing I noticed was that there is an EFI update buried in the 10.8.5 update. I was very cautious about my last imac and have not allowed any OS or EFI update.

Using Dangerous Source via USB and Avid HDN thunderbolt I have no issues so far.

Best of luck!
Old 4th November 2013
  #106
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t_d's Avatar
yeah.. i tried 10.84 on this new imac.. the other had 10.8.5

however... I THINK I FIXED THE PROBLEM!!

but i'm not going to jinx it and celebrate just yet. let me get through a whole job click free and i'll report back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
I know I am late to the party but ...

Any way you kept the original 10.8.4 installation?

In pro tools land 10.8.5 totally broke a bunch of stuff.

THe fact that the RME box makes it all work right really points to driver issues (IMO). THe fact that other boxes are having similar problems makes this more suspicious as an OS issue. I have had 3 late 2013 imacs (just geting the BTO right for me) and one thing I noticed was that there is an EFI update buried in the 10.8.5 update. I was very cautious about my last imac and have not allowed any OS or EFI update.

Using Dangerous Source via USB and Avid HDN thunderbolt I have no issues so far.

Best of luck!
Old 4th November 2013
  #107
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dangerousben's Avatar
 

How?
Old 4th November 2013
  #108
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t_d's Avatar
looks like i spoke too soon. after two, lengthy successful tests.. the pops are back.....
Old 4th November 2013
  #109
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djmukilteo's Avatar
Wow!...
How long was your recording and how long did the recording run before the first pop occurred?
Was it consistent intervals of pops after that first one or were they random?
Old 4th November 2013
  #110
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t_d's Avatar
the two successful tests this afternoon were 7 minutes each.

when i just tried it now i did a recording for a 3 minute song and the pops started right away and were like popcorn.

random...

basically.. to "fix" it (which obviously hasn't worked now).. i updated or re-loaded the firmware on the Orion.

the orion control panel has a spot to check firmware.. but it's not clear whether it's showing the firmware that's actually on the machine or just what updates are available for download. so, i just downloaded and loaded in the latest firmware figuring it would update it if i didn't have the latest or just write it again if i already had it.

took a few minutes... tested it out and no pops.... i thought that was it.. seems so simple i should have tried it 3 weeks ago...

but now... for no reason, back to popcorn again.




Quote:
Originally Posted by djmukilteo View Post
Wow!...
How long was your recording and how long did the recording run before the first pop occurred?
Was it consistent intervals of pops after that first one or were they random?
Old 4th November 2013
  #111
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djmukilteo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by t_d View Post
the two successful tests this afternoon were 7 minutes each.

when i just tried it now i did a recording for a 3 minute song and the pops started right away and were like popcorn.

random...

basically.. to "fix" it (which obviously hasn't worked now).. i updated or re-loaded the firmware on the Orion.

the orion control panel has a spot to check firmware.. but it's not clear whether it's showing the firmware that's actually on the machine or just what updates are available for download. so, i just downloaded and loaded in the latest firmware figuring it would update it if i didn't have the latest or just write it again if i already had it.

took a few minutes... tested it out and no pops.... i thought that was it.. seems so simple i should have tried it 3 weeks ago...

but now... for no reason, back to popcorn again.
Huh...it's probably not a driver or firmware problem then, at least not one that is a known compatibility issue. You would have reports out there from others somewhere of driver flaws or firmware flaws and that sort of behavior.
Which could make this something unique to your setup.
I'm thinking some unique process or connection of your recording and setup or the clocking activity of the signal data from interface to DAW.

Is this a realtime analog recording being A/D converted and recorded into the DAW or is this a previous recorded track from somewhere and your re-recording into the DAW?
If the latter it might be something in the DAW itself and not a hardware thing. If it's a realtime new raw analog recording then audio hardware could be more suspect.
Old 4th November 2013
  #112
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What exactly is the chain you are using
-->source to input to record to output
that is giving you these problems? Sample rate - recording software etc
Old 4th November 2013
  #113
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t_d's Avatar
i've been using this chain for years with my mac pro and fireface 800.. the problem only started when i switched to the new iMac and Orion and Apollo 16.

the chain is as follows:

play out of Bias Peak through fireface 800 (or Orion 32)
spdif out to cranesong HEDD for conversion
routing through analog chain via Dangerous Liaison
back into HEDD
spdif back into fireface/orion
capture with DSP Quattro

sample rate 44.1 99% of the time.

and, yes, i've tried various DAWs and various playback and capture programs and i still get clicks.

i was NOT getting clicks before switching to the new iMac. this chain is very important to me and works with the Fireface. if i can't get the Orion to work tomorrow it's going back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
What exactly is the chain you are using
-->source to input to record to output
that is giving you these problems? Sample rate - recording software etc
Old 5th November 2013
  #114
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Shawn Hatfield's Avatar
Taylor, probably not of any use or help, but when I had my HEDD192 connected to my previous interface (Echo Audiofire8) via SPDIF, I used to have to open the control panel software that came with the Echo and toggle the wordclock and samplerate settings back and forth a couple of times to get things locked, otherwise I'd get intermittent click and popcorn like behavior. Was really annoying doing that all the time so I ended up picking up a Weiss AFI-1 and ditched the Echo. Never had a click, pop, or popcorn since.
Old 5th November 2013
  #115
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dietrich10's Avatar
not adding much to this thread outside of noting that in my experience seems RME and Motu drivers the most stable.

I'd stay with the FF800
Old 5th November 2013
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t_d View Post
i've been using this chain for years with my mac pro and fireface 800.. the problem only started when i switched to the new iMac and Orion and Apollo 16.

the chain is as follows:

play out of Bias Peak through fireface 800 (or Orion 32)
spdif out to cranesong HEDD for conversion
routing through analog chain via Dangerous Liaison
back into HEDD
spdif back into fireface/orion
capture with DSP Quattro

sample rate 44.1 99% of the time.

and, yes, i've tried various DAWs and various playback and capture programs and i still get clicks.

i was NOT getting clicks before switching to the new iMac. this chain is very important to me and works with the Fireface. if i can't get the Orion to work tomorrow it's going back.
Interesting chain. The only odd ball there to me seems to be Bias Peak- would imagine that it could have issues with current OS (but also sounds like you have checked this part). Regardless sounds like you have FF800 works with SPDIF - Apollo does not (AES I assume). Whether it be the new imac or the apollo something isn't playing nice - replace the imac or the apollo :-). Since this only serves as your out of the computer into digital ins of HEDD it seems reasonable to stick to the FF800 for a bit.
Old 5th November 2013
  #117
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t_d's Avatar
yeah, i've done that sometimes.. not to avail.. but i'm really wondering why i had success this afternoon and now back to crap.

i really can't spend anymore time on this. for critical mastering applications the conversion is being handled by the HEDD anyway... the 16 analog outs (via Orion or via two FF800s) is purely for my own music/mixing which is usually to tape, cassette or otherwise warm and gritty.. the FF analog outs are totally fine in this application.. i was just looking to get a single interface instead of a couple.. but.. whatever WORKS is clearly more important.

to ProPower.. yes, Peak is certainly aging ... but it's still solid on all of my systems.. and on these iMac tests i did tests without peak and still got the same problems.

between the choice of getting an older computer and keeping the Orion or keeping the new iMac and the FF800s, i'd rather have the new mac w/ the FF's...

it's been a long, troublesome road.. and i thought i had it today... literally an hour before i was to box up the Orion and send it back to sweetwater i got it working.. but, alas, tomorrow it will go back.

FF800s are solid, dependable boxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twerk View Post
Taylor, probably not of any use or help, but when I had my HEDD192 connected to my previous interface (Echo Audiofire8) via SPDIF, I used to have to open the control panel software that came with the Echo and toggle the wordclock and samplerate settings back and forth a couple of times to get things locked, otherwise I'd get intermittent click and popcorn like behavior. Was really annoying doing that all the time so I ended up picking up a Weiss AFI-1 and ditched the Echo. Never had a click, pop, or popcorn since.
Old 5th November 2013
  #118
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Sorry couldn't give any more insight!

I read somewhere else that Apogee Duets issues with the new imac are in Apples lap to fix - very tough when you don't have clear reasons why something is happening. Hardware and drivers is where it all happens for us serious audio guys...

But at least I know where "Pound Ridge" is :-) Though I moved away 30+ years ago.

Though I know this shouldn't have anything to do with this and am 99.9% sure it doesn't, I solved all of my low latency 86kHz performance issues with pro tools by downloading xcode and turning Hyperthreading OFF on my late 2013 imac. For me it made sense due to HT causing CPU spokes. Your use is so benign it is hard to imagine - but it is also something no one has suggested...

other random thoughts--
Put Hard Discs to sleep = never
Turn off all sleep stuff
Old 5th November 2013
  #119
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t_d's Avatar
while that COULD work, i'm not keen on mucking with that level on the computer.. .'cos i use it for so many other things as well..

i'm impressed you know of our little sleepy town. if you were still here we'd probably have the highest town per capita of mastering engineers in new york!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPower View Post
Sorry couldn't give any more insight!

I read somewhere else that Apogee Duets issues with the new imac are in Apples lap to fix - very tough when you don't have clear reasons why something is happening. Hardware and drivers is where it all happens for us serious audio guys...

But at least I know where "Pound Ridge" is :-) Though I moved away 30+ years ago.

Though I know this shouldn't have anything to do with this and am 99.9% sure it doesn't, I solved all of my low latency 86kHz performance issues with pro tools by downloading xcode and turning Hyperthreading OFF on my late 2013 imac. For me it made sense due to HT causing CPU spokes. Your use is so benign it is hard to imagine - but it is also something no one has suggested...

other random thoughts--
Put Hard Discs to sleep = never
Turn off all sleep stuff
Old 5th November 2013
  #120
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t_d's Avatar
just FYI. the latest pop craze.
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