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10k... analog mastering gear, or attack wall?
Old 13th October 2013
  #1
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10k... analog mastering gear, or attack wall?

I'm really wanting to get an attack wall, but I know my room, and I'm now thinking an analog mastering chain might make more sense for the duration.

I'm thinking foote p3s me, clariphonic, and a flexible eq, or an attack wall with my ITB plugs. Getting a lot more mastering business surprisingly, so I'm leaning towards the former now.

Any ideas?

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Old 13th October 2013
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
I'm really wanting to get an attack wall, but I know my room, and I'm now thinking an analog mastering chain might make more sense for the duration.

I'm thinking foote p3s me, clariphonic, and a flexible eq, or an attack wall with my ITB plugs. Getting a lot more mastering business surprisingly, so I'm leaning towards the former now.

Any ideas?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
Even though you know your room well, how is it currently treated? If you've got MondoTraps covering a very large part of your room, for example, then an AttackWall won't make as much of a difference compared to having less extreme treatment.

How's the sub-100 Hz response at the listening position? A traditional AttackWall with just 9" Studio Traps and Monitor Stands/tops won't do anything in this very critical range. You'll need much larger ones (20"+) stacked in the corners. I know from experience.

Regardless, my guess is that an AttackWall will give you more benefit than the mastering chain.
Old 13th October 2013
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoSueMe View Post
Even though you know your room well, how is it currently treated? If you've got MondoTraps covering a very large part of your room, for example, then an AttackWall won't make as much of a difference compared to having less extreme treatment.

How's the sub-100 Hz response at the listening position? A traditional AttackWall with just 9" Studio Traps and Monitor Stands/tops won't do anything in this very critical range. You'll need much larger ones (20"+) stacked in the corners. I know from experience.

Regardless, my guess is that an AttackWall will give you more benefit than the mastering chain.
Traps aplenty. Could be better (as it always can), but I can make decisions that translate, without much trouble.

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Old 13th October 2013
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
I'm really wanting to get an attack wall, but I know my room, and I'm now thinking an analog mastering chain might make more sense for the duration.

I'm thinking foote p3s me, clariphonic, and a flexible eq, or an attack wall with my ITB plugs. Getting a lot more mastering business surprisingly, so I'm leaning towards the former now.

Any ideas?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
Attack Wall all the way. I own a 24 tube system with two monitor stands.

I would rather use plugins for a bit until I could buy that kick a$$ analog chain, knowing that what I'm hearing is dead on accurate and stop worrying about how my mixes are translating.

Granted my attack wall is sitting in storage as I moved into a properly treated space but I still wish I had it setup to listen back on as it beats out the acoustics in my new spot.

I have never had problems with bass build up but obviously everyone's room is different and we monitor at different levels. The attack wall really only benefits in my opinion the engineer smack in the listening position. It is about the most antisocial you will ever feel! Also keep those traps away from the walls. They need that room to let the diffusion breath on the backside.


Cheers!
Old 13th October 2013
  #5
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I definitely agree, and that was my opinion at first, but here is my issue:

As of now (currently in market for house), my TD-30KV is in my room, in the corner. With the attack wall, I'd have to store it. Not only that, but I've lost business because I use digital stuff. My thought now is using the analog gear to capture the extra business to fund the attack wall in my new space (when I close on a house), as I won't know that room. I've got a ton of treatment in my space, including clouds, etc. It's not too tough to get things to translate.

Or am I just being completely stupid?

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Old 13th October 2013
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
I definitely agree, and that was my opinion at first, but here is my issue:

As of now (currently in market for house), my TD-30KV is in my room, in the corner. With the attack wall, I'd have to store it. Not only that, but I've lost business because I use digital stuff. My thought now is using the analog gear to capture the extra business to fund the attack wall in my new space (when I close on a house), as I won't know that room. I've got a ton of treatment in my space, including clouds, etc. It's not too tough to get things to translate.

Or am I just being completely stupid?

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No not stupid! You could make an argument for either route. And either way your definitely not making a "bad" choice.

If your master deliverables are translating well and clients are happy then maybe the analog chain should come first. I do think that those pieces would help a bit with client draw as oppose to the attack wall too. Usually an attack wall takes a lot of explaining to clients haha. I had a group once who thought they were pieces of artwork. ...

If I'm ever in doubt on a certain rooms treatment I usually just monitor a little quieter than usual and listen harder. Not a bad fall back plan!

Just my 0.02.

Cheers
Old 13th October 2013
  #7
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Yeah, I'm definitely appreciating the advice.

I disagree with it on principle, but analog gear gets clients. I mean, I have an analog front end, and it sells people all the time.

Confusing stuff...

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Old 13th October 2013
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
Yeah, I'm definitely appreciating the advice.

I disagree with it on principle, but analog gear gets clients. I mean, I have an analog front end, and it sells people all the time.

Confusing stuff...

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Yeah and I sure as hell would rather be working on that chain you mentioned over a plugin!
Old 13th October 2013
  #9
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Ended up setting my sights on the bettermaker 232p. A thing of beauty.

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Old 13th October 2013
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
Ended up setting my sights on the bettermaker 232p. A thing of beauty.

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Get that and a decent vari mu compressor and you are on your way!
Old 13th October 2013
  #11
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Thinking knif... thoughts?

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Old 13th October 2013
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
I'm really wanting to get an attack wall, but I know my room, and I'm now thinking an analog mastering chain might make more sense for the duration.

I'm thinking foote p3s me, clariphonic, and a flexible eq, or an attack wall with my ITB plugs. Getting a lot more mastering business surprisingly, so I'm leaning towards the former now.

Any ideas?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
If I had 10K...for more self mastering purposes....

For compressors I'd want two of the following six units:

Pendulum Audio PL2 (For hard limiting...it's really, really good at something you really, really want. It's a one trick is the best kind of trick kind of pony.)

RND MBP
Stereo widening, parallel compression, and mid side compression all in one box. More like a mastering swiss army knife.


TK Audio BC2Me
Mastering Compressor variant of the BC1MK2 from the sound clips it's like a mastering version of an SSL G comp meets an API2500 in some ways...only very clear and big sounding. I have only heard clips on the Zen Pro Audio Clipulator...but there's something here I really want to try before the year is out. Very cool..and very BIG sounding.


Foot P3s ME (Class A version)
Different transformers, but also stepped...I have a feeling this one and the TK box together would cover a lot of ground and blend well...Roger Foote is someone who puts time and effort in making the best components really do the heavy lifting. I think you'd want to spring for his best and fully featured version. Some people here think it's one of the finest compressors ever made.


Chandler Germanium Compressor (Matched Pair)
Read my review here on Gearslutz. These can be a Godsend with mixing or mastering.


Dave Hill Titan (Matched Pair)
Newest and most fairly priced of the Dave Hill compressor designs. It's also easy to recall and has more features than any other compressor here listed.

For EQ's I'd want one that focuses on the Mid-Band...and one that handles program EQ control...there's a ton to choose from, but on a budget I'd think about a pair of JLM PEQ500's, they're closer to a solid state 1SA style Pultec with extended shelf freqs on the high end to do the Pultec style program EQ thing...and maybe a pair of CAPI LC53a's (Stepped, inductor based 550a meets Avedis e27 style EQ's to handle the mid band.) I could talk about more expensive EQ's, but that next you two pairs for less than 4K...leaving room to afford the compressors. (Just bear in mind you'll need a 500 series rack of some kind for those EQs.)
Old 13th October 2013
  #13
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Definitely getting the class A p3s me. Titans are on my list as well. After the 232 and compressors, I'll strongly consider a Buzz req 2.2 and Curve bender. Man, I love the curve bender, but it's just not a wide-use EQ.
Old 14th October 2013
  #14
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I know you had a Clariphonic in the list, but really... get the wall.

It's great that you know your room, but there are some things you can't 'know' your way past, like smeared transients. The wall will give you a tightness and quickness most people have never experienced, which is why it's so hard to describe. But once you taste it, there's no going back.

I've not ever heard a sub-million dollar room that sounds as tight as mine does now. Not even close, actually, and the level it allows me to work at has outstripped anything any piece of gear has ever done by a canyon-esque margin.

Do yourself a favor, it will up your game on every conceivable level.


Gregory Scott - ubk
Old 14th October 2013
  #15
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Definitely a compelling argument. How big is your room, and how many traps did you go with? With me on the market, in not sure what size room I'll end up in, and I certainly don't want to over-indulge. I mean, if I nix the eq for now, I can get the mid-tier wall as well as the comp and clari.

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Old 14th October 2013
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post

I've not ever heard a sub-million dollar room that sounds as tight as mine does now. Not even close, actually, and the level it allows me to work at has outstripped anything any piece of gear has ever done by a canyon-esque margin.
Gregory Scott - ubk
Hey Gregory,

just curious : how exactly did you treat your room ?

cheers
tom
Old 14th October 2013
  #17
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He has an ASC Attack Wall.

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Old 14th October 2013
  #18
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Thanks.. mhm 9K + is just a little too much for me right now + i dont digg the look of it too much. Already spend about 2,5k for some Vicoustic and Primacoustic panels and traps.

cheers
Old 14th October 2013
  #19
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Originally Posted by tomteontour View Post
Thanks.. mhm 9K + is just a little too much for me right now + i dont digg the look of it too much. Already spend about 2,5k for some Vicoustic and Primacoustic panels and traps.

cheers
What don't you like about the look , if I may ask?
Old 14th October 2013
  #20
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Originally Posted by SoSueMe View Post
What don't you like about the look , if I may ask?

Well I suppose you could make it look nice when hanging some nice fabrique in the foreground. Just a room with tubes all ofter the place is not the most creativity wise inspiring thing, i could imagine. I prefer a nice cozy look. But I am aware thats allways a trade off as well a cost based decision.
Old 14th October 2013
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhager84 View Post
Definitely getting the class A p3s me. Titans are on my list as well. After the 232 and compressors, I'll strongly consider a Buzz req 2.2 and Curve bender. Man, I love the curve bender, but it's just not a wide-use EQ.
How are you set for converters, speakers and a monitor controller presently?
Old 14th October 2013
  #22
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To me, the fact that you are changing rooms makes it a pretty obvious decision in favor of the Attack Wall. Learning curve would be small to non-existent. Plus, if you have enough space the traps can pull double duty as you can very easily move some traps into a Quick Sound Field. That gives you a legit vocal/dub space.

You can go broke trying to match mastering houses in a gear competition. Instead you can differentiate yourself based on skill, aesthetic and price. I think the ASC stuff helps you more than the outboard in that regard.
Old 14th October 2013
  #23
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Fair points all around. I'm definitely leaning back toward the wall again.

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Old 15th October 2013
  #24
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Greg, how many traps do you use for behind your desk? I have two 23" monitors, and I can't tell by judging whether or not that'll clear. Pics of your layout, perchance?
Old 15th October 2013
  #25
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i don't know what your situation is regarding your room acoustics, but i would rather prefer to master only ITB in a good room instead of working with analog gear in a room with acoustical problems. (experience,) room acoustics + monitoring system always first.

mastering is about making very important decisions, so IMO "i know my room" isn't a good strategy.
Old 15th October 2013
  #26
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show us your room, like this we be in a mist
Old 15th October 2013
  #27
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Great loudspeakers in a solid acoustic is the key. But if you want impress clients buy outboard first...
I think this attack wall will be too expensive for what it will deliver. For 10k you can build something clearly more effective.
Effective acoustics should always be tailored to the room dimensions, otherwise you give away a lot of potential. It's always the same problem with such modules.
Check out the acoustic forum for more infos and and spend your money wisely.
Old 15th October 2013
  #28
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2 cents: I have to agree with JP - No disrespect to the attack-wall, I'm sure it's quite good and if you move around a lot or need to take a completely untreated room from 'zero to 60' in a couple hours - I say go for it. But with your budget - and esp if you're staying in one space - do yourself a favor and look at the other options too. I believe you'll find you can have a fully custom treated room that gives you the same clarity and definition UBK is talking about AND have a couple grand left over for outboard if you look at a GIK or Realtraps etc.....and no umpteen folding stands to constantly knock over or slide around on you to boot. YMMV
Old 20th April 2014
  #29
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stephen makes good points -- good construction, soffit traps, and augmented dimensions are the foundation for a good room. that said...

the attack wall is the best money i ever spent. i have 25 traps and a pair of monitor stands. imaging is panoramic, transient detail is insane. midrange all the way to high frequencies are essentially 100% flat response. no questions about it (assuming your floor, ceiling, and "desk" arent introducing comb filtering). low end extends, tightens, and every frequency between 70-200 hz is instantly cleared up. this is the region i previously had a lot of hazy issues with that the attack wall fixed.. getting an even response below 70 has more to do with your room. the attack wall will make you twice the mixer you currently are, if not even more

and lets not forget, they will enhance your tracking game too. read up on what ASC calls a "quick sound field." its no joke.
Old 23rd April 2014
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stringbean01 View Post
the attack wall is the best money i ever spent. i have 25 traps and a pair of monitor stands. imaging is panoramic, transient detail is insane. midrange all the way to high frequencies are essentially 100% flat response. no questions about it (assuming your floor, ceiling, and "desk" arent introducing comb filtering). low end extends, tightens, and every frequency between 70-200 hz is instantly cleared up. this is the region i previously had a lot of hazy issues with that the attack wall fixed.. getting an even response below 70 has more to do with your room. the attack wall will make you twice the mixer you currently are, if not even more

and lets not forget, they will enhance your tracking game too. read up on what ASC calls a "quick sound field." its no joke.
This is the third time I've seen this post copy pasted bumping old threads. One could mistake it for product shilling if one didn't know any better!
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