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A loudness breakthrough!
Old 22nd May 2006
  #1
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phild's Avatar
A loudness breakthrough!

Nah, just kidding...

Does anyone know what happens to the signal if a "stereo" comp is used last within an M/S path?

I'll provide more details if it'll help any??

Phil
Old 22nd May 2006
  #2
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Darius van H's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by phild
Nah, just kidding...

Does anyone know what happens to the signal if a "stereo" comp is used last within an M/S path?
It gets compressed (trick question?)
Old 22nd May 2006
  #3
Gear Nut
 

I'm assuming that you mean the last thing before the signal is turned back to L/R?

Speaking from memory, The "stereo comp" will see M=L and S=R, so will be responding mainly to the M information (assuming the mix is mono heavy), and compressing S at the same time. The L/R image should remain stable as the gain reduction acts on both M/S equally..

Hmmm. I should try this, as I think I'm in danger of speaking out my arse.. back in a mo.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #4
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Speaking from memory, The "stereo comp" will see M=L and S=R, so will be responding mainly to the M information (assuming the mix is mono heavy), and compressing S at the same time. The L/R image should remain stable as the gain reduction acts on both M/S equally.
After a quick listen, I think thats right. Sounds very different to a dual mono comp in and MS chain.
Old 22nd May 2006
  #5
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phild's Avatar
Not a trick question!

I accidentally patched in my kultube as the last thing in my MS insert but liked it - despite moments laters figuring that this was not kosher!

I suspected that it was mainly doing the mono because things didn't change much image wise. Yeah, it was mono heavy program.

Thanks guerillamixer for double checking this !

Phil
Old 23rd May 2006
  #6
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by phild
....
I accidentally patched in my kultube....
Phil
Hey Phil:

Not to get off topic but I'd never seen/heard of the Kultube before your post.

It looks interesting. If you don't mind, how did you hear about it, why did you get it and what does it do that the other "traditional" mastering compressors don't do?

http://www.soundperformancelab.com/k.../in_short.html

Thanks
Old 23rd May 2006
  #7
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phild's Avatar
Hi Andy,

How:
I heard about the Kultube through my acquaintance with Chris Gehringer at Sterling Sound. He dumped his Avalon and Prism analog outboard for a Kultube and a Vitalizer MKII-T and suggested I try them out. I thought he was nuts. He had just done the excellent "Ozomatli" CD with the SPL gear and I thought at that moment that it was a good time to try something new. I had just sold my VariMu/ MP & realized I'm not mad about tube gear.

Goodfella Noah Mintz at ProAudioCanada sold it to me 'cause he'd kill me if I bought it from anyone else. He gets like that sometimes.

Why:
Cause a lot of people I do work for - either rightly or wrongly - think lately that I can do a "reasonable" Sterling impersonation when the budget isn't there to go to NYC. So I watch those guys like the stock market . They know it too and, dude, the jokes and harrassment I get from them is quite ridiculous sometimes (Hi Chris). Nonetheless, the Kultube was a tip.

What:
I'm still not sure what a traditional mastering comp is? It's different now maybe? Remember that my first mentors , George Graves and Doug Moncrieff are 60+ and 70+ years of age now so i've heard and/or used a ton of comps since being in the business (George still uses his time at Doug Sax's studio as his reference point in quality. Meaning "all custom") . We've had a lot of various technolgy since I've been at The Lacquer Channel.

I find the SPL stuff kinda "soft" and def. not like anything else I ever heard. Maybe that's why I'm not curious about the eq's....???? However, It does a thing that is great for "pop". Smooth and the bottom is natural and right.
UNobvious is how I like to hear it.
I go through periods with it where I don't know what to think. This month i like it because my assistant Sarah wanted to use it on a track she did and it blew me away.

It will all depend on the way you interface it, I suppose.

Come check it if you want? Or talk to Noah because he stocks it all.
You'll either love it or hate it.
It's one of those pieces.

Well built, I think.
I am going to buy the vitalizer MKII-T next



Phil
Old 23rd May 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by phild
Hi Andy,

How:
I heard about the Kultube through my acquaintance with Chris Gehringer at Sterling Sound. He dumped his Avalon and Prism analog outboard for a Kultube and a Vitalizer MKII-T and suggested I try them out. I thought he was nuts. He had just done the excellent "Ozomatli" CD with the SPL gear and I thought at that moment that it was a good time to try something new. I had just sold my VariMu/ MP & realized I'm not mad about tube gear.

Goodfella Noah Mintz at ProAudioCanada sold it to me 'cause he'd kill me if I bought it from anyone else. He gets like that sometimes.

Why:
Cause a lot of people I do work for - either rightly or wrongly - think lately that I can do a "reasonable" Sterling impersonation when the budget isn't there to go to NYC. So I watch those guys like the stock market . They know it too and, dude, the jokes and harrassment I get from them is quite ridiculous sometimes (Hi Chris). Nonetheless, the Kultube was a tip.

What:
I'm still not sure what a traditional mastering comp is? It's different now maybe? Remember that my first mentors , George Graves and Doug Moncrieff are 60+ and 70+ years of age now so i've heard and/or used a ton of comps since being in the business (George still uses his time at Doug Sax's studio as his reference point in quality. Meaning "all custom") . We've had a lot of various technolgy since I've been at The Lacquer Channel.

I find the SPL stuff kinda "soft" and def. not like anything else I ever heard. Maybe that's why I'm not curious about the eq's....???? However, It does a thing that is great for "pop". Smooth and the bottom is natural and right.
UNobvious is how I like to hear it.
I go through periods with it where I don't know what to think. This month i like it because my assistant Sarah wanted to use it on a track she did and it blew me away.

It will all depend on the way you interface it, I suppose.

Come check it if you want? Or talk to Noah because he stocks it all.
You'll either love it or hate it.
It's one of those pieces.

Well built, I think.
I am going to buy the vitalizer MKII-T next



Phil
Thanks for the great explanation and the kind offer to check it out.

Sounds like I've gone the other way on gear as I'm using some or all of both Manleys, a TubeTech multii-band and a Requisite Tube limiter almost every day, not to mention that I'm a month into my love affair with my ATR-102 1/2" Spitz rebuild with Aria Electronics. A lot of mixes sound just magical when they touch this machine.

Oh well, its nice that the Toronto market has choices! Funny though, tubes never hold me back from making my albums loud, if they have to be. BTW, I like your work and you may be surprised to hear that I have recommended you more than a few times when I wasn't available. I know you can't return the favour 'cause there's too many mouths to feed at Lacquer Channel!

On the other side of the coin, I've been very interested in the SPL PQ EQ for a long time and I finally got one coming in for audition very soon.

I searched and I posted a few months ago to see if any one owned or used on of these beasts but nothing came up but the review on SPL's site and the fact that Bob Ludwig owns one and apparently uses it a lot. Of course an email to him was not returned. I guess he gets way too many requests about his gear so I don't blame him.

I didn't ask Noah about the PQ EQ b/c SPL-US doesn't usually stock them and has to make each one to order. However, through my hockey buddy, Jeff Long at L&M, a deal was worked out where I don't have to buy it if I'm not blown away. Given the exhorbitant price, that was really the only way I could justify bringing it in! I will certainly provide a review, hopefully very positive, but one way or the other, there will finally be at least one more opinion out there in case anyone else is interested in the future.
Old 23rd May 2006
  #9
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phild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Krehm
Thanks for the great explanation and the kind offer to check it out.
No problem at all. I'll swap ya for the SRC maybe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Krehm
both Manleys, a TubeTech multii-band and a Requisite Tube limiter almost every day, not to mention that I'm a month into my love affair with my ATR-102 1/2" Spitz rebuild with Aria Electronics
Oh well, its nice that the Toronto market has choices! Funny though, tubes never hold me back from making my albums loud, if they have to be.
A lot of tubes there! But this is great gear, no doubt. The tube thing has never been about level for me. Some of my loudest records were probably cut with tube stuff. I find my ears to prefer a faster leaner more modern sound so solid state is what I'm using currently. I used to maybe naively confuse the sound of tubes with transformers. It was the tranformer sound I was after all along. I could never "focus" the tube thing to my liking. I tried an OCL 2 recently and while it was brief I didn't buy it. I'll try it again someday.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Krehm
BTW, I like your work and you may be surprised to hear that I have recommended you more than a few times when I wasn't available. I know you can't return the favour 'cause there's too many mouths to feed at Lacquer Channel!
Surprised yes. Does your accountant know? A few more mouths have been added here recently too so it's doubly appreciated! Keep your ears open for Sarah Onyschuk's work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Krehm
On the other side of the coin, I've been very interested in the SPL PQ EQ for a long time and I finally got one coming in for audition very soon.
That's very cool. You'll be in a very small company of individuals. Vlado has one? Bob Ludwig probably has several but he will rarely share his trade secrets. There's a studio maybe several in Germany/Belgium where this stuff might be more visible. Expensive too. I just hope it sounds good? I take that back. It WILL sound good. I bet all those recall motors really jack the price up? Are you going to raise your rates now because of it?

Phil
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