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mastering question....possible to lift kick out of dense mix??
Old 28th February 2006
  #1
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mastering question....possible to lift kick out of dense mix??

Can anyone give me a clue as to whether its possible to lift a kick drum out of an already dense mix? is this possible with Eq? compression? both?

I am mastering a small project ...the tools at my disposal are Neodynium Equim and Furium, PsP vintage warmer, Logic Pro 7.1, and most of the Waves with the exception of L3....

initially, the unmastered mix was sent thru a PSP Vintage Warmer, Match EQ from Logic (matching a Danzig tune) and Waves SI Imager.....the master bus then contained a Waves LinB eq and an L2...

my best guess at this point is that is has to be remixed or retracked..

any suggestions?
Old 1st March 2006
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain54
Can anyone give me a clue as to whether its possible to lift a kick drum out of an already dense mix? is this possible with Eq? compression? both?

any suggestions?
Yes... it's possible. If I gave you the answer though I would have charge you for a session!

Regards,
Old 1st March 2006
  #3
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lucey's Avatar
 

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yes, it can almost always be done ...
Old 1st March 2006
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crna59
Yes... it's possible. If I gave you the answer though I would have charge you for a session!

Regards,
ok...wow that was helpful...
Old 1st March 2006
  #5
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lucey's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain54
ok...wow that was helpful...
well it's always better to remix something like "kick up" or "vocal down"



and without working on it, all anyone can say is "probably" thumbsup
Old 1st March 2006
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain54
initially, the unmastered mix was sent thru a PSP Vintage Warmer, Match EQ from Logic (matching a Danzig tune) and Waves SI Imager.....the master bus then contained a Waves LinB eq and an L2...
So the mix went thru the PSP and EQ BEFORE the master and THEN went thru another compressor and EQ? And THEN they want you to "master" it?

Ask them to give you the mix without all that crap on it. That should help the...mastering process...
Old 1st March 2006
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexLakis
So the mix went thru the PSP and EQ BEFORE the master and THEN went thru another compressor and EQ? And THEN they want you to "master" it?

Ask them to give you the mix without all that crap on it. That should help the...mastering process...
sorry it wasn't clear

there was no fx processing on this all the other tunes when I received them...

they weren't really tunes they were "beds" of guitar bass vocals drums....I was to add keys and do what i could to "master" the final product...

the beds were barely audible when I received them....I found applying the psp and eq brought some "life" to it...after I applied my keys and synths, I applied a lite touch of Wave LinB eq and L2 to smooth it out...everything turned out fine except for one tune with very dense guitars that seemed to bury the kick...
Old 1st March 2006
  #8
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synthax's Avatar
 

You can do it with Renovator from Algorithmix...

http://www.synthax.com/algorithmix.html
Old 1st March 2006
  #9
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Ah, I see...That's a sigh of relief!!

Well, let's see, there are a few things you could think about...

Generally, as far as compression goes (and you have a bit going on,) a slower attack and a fast release should allow some more low end to come out, and generally result in more punchiness. Since you haven't mentioned the genre of this music, I would assume that you're going for "punchy" with your kick.

It really all depends where the bass is sitting. Where is it in relation to the kick? Above? Below? The same? Can you do some narrow-band EQing to bring out the kick without causing the bass to overpower the song?

EDIT: Another option might be, if you find that you can isolate the kick drum, but don't like the tone you're geting...is sound replacer. Use the EQ to bring out the kick...then use sound replacer to isolate the kick with a sample that would help out the performance. Then gently reinforce the mix with the sample (since you're also mixing before mastering, you could do this during that phase.)

P.S. this new edit feature is pretty cool, but the "save" option didn't work for me...
Old 1st March 2006
  #10
make a copy of the song

low-pass it at 150 or so


run it through some sort of transient enhancer (trans X)

run that through a kick drum gate (floor fish) gate it hard where only the "bump" comes through

strip silence, normalize the rest

apply the gated file and run that through drumagog and trigger a new kick track for the song



WHEW!

PITA
Old 1st March 2006
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by everybody's x
make a copy of the song

low-pass it at 150 or so


run it through some sort of transient enhancer (trans X)

run that through a kick drum gate (floor fish) gate it hard where only the "bump" comes through

strip silence, normalize the rest

apply the gated file and run that through drumagog and trigger a new kick track for the song



WHEW!


PITA
nice.....awesome man...

dominion works also in place of Trans X .....but PC only or OS 9
Old 1st March 2006
  #12
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lucey's Avatar
 

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is a remix not possible ?
Old 1st March 2006
  #13
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no it is possible but trying to avoid it....if possilble
Old 1st March 2006
  #14
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lucey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain54
no it is possible but trying to avoid it....if possilble
not to be a pest, but all the plug ins aside, it's usually the easiest thing to do.

either that or just pull it out in mastering with a combination of eq and compression.
Old 1st March 2006
  #15
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Improv's Avatar
 

Mid-Side processing.

Encode your stereo mix into M/S which then runs through two mono busses. EQ and compress just the mid channel to bring out the kick, then re-encode back to stereo. Be VERY careful about phase relationships when split to M/S... linear phase EQ's and delay compensation are your friends here.

The folks who make Dominion also make a plug called Endorphin that has some fancy M/S tricks up its sleeve. I would delve into that a bit... but for more flexibility, try the M/S split method above.
Old 1st March 2006
  #16
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Darius van H's Avatar
 

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Depends on how "buried" the kick is........it may not be possible without having serious negative effects elsewhere in the mix.
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