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vinyl - wide stereo image
Old 8th April 2011
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

vinyl - wide stereo image

how wide stereo image of audio can be accept be pressing plant is it somes to vinyl ?

are there any rules and safety procedures ?.


the same master I did was rejected by one plant and successfully pressed by another - artist wanted very wide stereo image (that some instruments gave no sound if pressed MONO !!!)
Old 8th April 2011
  #2
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wado1942's Avatar
 

You can pan things as wide as you want, but more panning means lower level on disk and more likelihood of the playback stylus jumping out of the groove. Remember, a LOT of early stereo rock recordings had all the instruments on one channel and all the vocals on the other. Doesn't get much wider than that, worked fine. It just didn't sound good.
Old 8th April 2011
  #3
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JTransition's Avatar
 

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Stereo width

Quote:
how wide stereo image of audio can be accept be pressing plant is it somes to vinyl ?
That depends on various factors eg,Frequency of stereo element,lenth of track,Desired level of cut,Murphy present or not,etc
Quote:
are there any rules and safety procedures ?.
Not really just guidelines

Quote:
the same master I did was rejected by one plant and successfully pressed by another - artist wanted very wide stereo image (that some instruments gave no sound if pressed MONO !!!)

I doubt that the "successfull" plant cut your file flat,It' s more likely that the cutting engineer who did cut it was more flexible or had a "got to make this happen" attitude.

Fat Larry
Old 8th April 2011
  #4
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807Recordings's Avatar
 

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I am not sure what it is but all the records I have had cut sound wider on the wax than on the actual masters. This is especially true if it came off of 1/2 tape.

The reason I say this is because if your mix is relatively good in its sound staging then it should be fine on the vinyl. Of course this is provided you use a good mastering/cutting engineer.
Old 3 days ago
  #5
Gear Maniac
So if I chose to make my track less wide, loudness will increase or does that not matter as soon as you decide to cut stereo?
Old 3 days ago
  #6
I got about a 25 db's channel separation back in the early 1980's. With digital CD's and a modified analog console I now get -90 db stereo crosstalk at 10k hz.
Old 2 days ago
  #7
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I got about a 25 db's channel separation back in the early 1980's. With digital CD's and a modified analog console I now get -90 db stereo crosstalk at 10k hz.
And with all that crosstalk CDs sound worse than LP or 24/96
Old 2 days ago
  #8
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Greg Reierson's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbot View Post
So if I chose to make my track less wide, loudness will increase or does that not matter as soon as you decide to cut stereo?
Less stereo image often sounds smaller, so take that into consideration.

It's a very old thread but it still comes up a lot. The only thing to really worry about is excessive sub content or excessive HF content. That counts for both mono and stereo. Heavy LF in the stereo field is easy enough to deal with during the cut. HF is every cutting engineers headache. Please, please, control sibilance, distortion and HF content for anything intended for vinyl.
Old 2 days ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reierson View Post
Heavy LF in the stereo field is easy enough to deal with during the cut.
Explain...? Extremely stereo LF content (random phase or out of phase) creates a significant vertical cut that will tend to launch the playback stylus on the up and creates a huge groove on the down. If you “deal with it” by making the low end much more mono, you radically change the sound of the low frequency content.
Old 2 days ago
  #10
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Greg Reierson's Avatar
 

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It has to be extreme to cause trouble, in which case a call to the client puts us on the right path. I may cut and capture a problematic section for approval or cut a ref before moving forward with really challenging audio. It's rare though.
Old 2 days ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Reierson View Post
It has to be extreme to cause trouble, in which case a call to the client puts us on the right path. I may cut and capture a problematic section for approval or cut a ref before moving forward with really challenging audio. It's rare though.
Thank you for the explanation.
Old 1 day ago
  #12
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dietrich10's Avatar
Keep in mind the playback stylus has to track the stereo information and the wider the low end the deeper the grooves need to be. the issue can be if you have a long 20 minute side and too much stereo spread below 200hz--- if the cutting engineer blindly monos everything elements can be lost.
it can be a tricky
Old 1 day ago
  #13
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Greg Reierson's Avatar
 

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True.

The flip side is people sending a "vinyl ready" master with everything below 200Hz summed to mono cuz the internet said so. I'd rather have the cutting engineer do it on an as-needed basis and make an occasional call if there's a potential problem.
Old 1 day ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
If you “deal with it” by making the low end much more mono, you radically change the sound of the low frequency content.

Given the choice between having the record skip and having the sound of the low end be different most will go with the latter.
Old 1 day ago
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
Given the choice between having the record skip and having the sound of the low end be different most will go with the latter.
I wouldn’t advocate anyone cutting a record that will probably skip, so that isn’t my contention, or anything I would do.
I did like the previous suggestion that if the mastering engineer is going to do something that would obviously change the sound, the client should be consulted and perhaps approve a test lacquer or have an opportunity to remix.
Do you disagree?
Old 1 day ago
  #16
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Paul Gold's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
I wouldn’t advocate anyone cutting a record that will probably skip, so that isn’t my contention, or anything I would do.
I did like the previous suggestion that if the mastering engineer is going to do something that would obviously change the sound, the client should be consulted and perhaps approve a test lacquer or have an opportunity to remix.
Do you disagree?
A reference is always a good idea.
Old 1 day ago
  #17
Gear Addict
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
Given the choice between having the record skip and having the sound of the low end be different most will go with the latter.
I cut one recently where a passage in question skipped 2 out of 5 plays.
When it comes to cutting I have come to realize: 1. nothing about making cutting decisions is usually black and white 2.maddeningly so.
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