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Sadie and mastering
Old 21st February 2011
  #1
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Sadie and mastering

Doesn't seem to be much recent discussion regarding Sadie systems/software even since their release of native ver. 6. Sounds like most here work with Sequoia or WaveLab for the most part and a few with Soundblade or Pyramix.

The investment cost is definitely on the higher side and I am also curious if their dedicated hardware, particularly the pcm4/pcm8 for mastering has kept up or taken a slide since the native software release.

Any Sadie comments?
Old 21st February 2011
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropd9 View Post
Doesn't seem to be much recent discussion regarding Sadie systems/software even since their release of native ver. 6. Sounds like most here work with Sequoia or WaveLab for the most part and a few with Soundblade or Pyramix.

The investment cost is definitely on the higher side and I am also curious if their dedicated hardware, particularly the pcm4/pcm8 for mastering has kept up or taken a slide since the native software release.

Any Sadie comments?
I've not upgraded to 6 as yet, partly because 5 and the PCM and H hardware work very stably and well, though will probably take the plunge in the next month. What are your particular requirements?
Old 21st February 2011
  #3
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I'm a good six months out from moving forward with a dedicated mastering DAW.

In the meantime fishing for thoughts/opinions regarding sadie (as mentioned) as there don't seem to be very many using their systems or software.

Good to hear that you are a satisfied Sadie user? The DSP hardware could make sense for me provided enough popularity and continued support. Also how does the hardware handle conversion and other processing compared to dedicated outboard?
Old 21st February 2011
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropd9 View Post
I'm a good six months out from moving forward with a dedicated mastering DAW.

In the meantime fishing for thoughts/opinions regarding sadie (as mentioned) as there don't seem to be very many using their systems or software.
Actually, there are quite a lot mastering people using SADiE, it's just that not many of them seem to frequent web forums :-)
Quote:
Also how does the hardware handle conversion and other processing compared to dedicated outboard?
If you mean sample rate conversion, I don't bother with SADiE's own routine these days, it neither sounds nor measures as good as the newer crop of SRC applications. Personally, I use Sample Manager on a separate (fairly old) iMac networked to the SADiE so I see its drives, and that works a treat quite inexpensively.

Processing? I expect you mean plug-in usage: for the one EQ and couple of limiters I run, 5 on an H16 is more than adequate - most processing here is outboard. If you wanted to run much more than that then 6 would probably be the way to go.
Old 21st February 2011
  #5
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Thanks for your input lowland.

Makes sense that Sadie would be more popular in UK. I stumbled across some SRC test here on GS comparing algorithms with graphed results and was a bit surprised by many including Sadie. Not sure how accurate, but interesting none the less!
Old 22nd February 2011
  #6
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I'm a 16 year SADiST here in the classical recording business.

We have a SADiE PCM 8H, our third SADiE system.

It is used here in the USA at various radio stations, by classical editors and those from whom super editing capabilities are paramount. Various heavy duty mastering guys run SADiE. The hardware is super stable and runs vst and direct x plugs with ease. Since SADiE is primarily an editing program you will not find the hardware side to be designed as a host for a plethora of plug-ins.

We also have the new SADiE 6 native soft here which we are just implementing this week. It is a platform much like the hardware Series 5 but adds much more in the way of hosting plug-ins. Izotope plug-ins are included as a part of SADiE 6.

Guys running SADiE quietly go about their business and since the system does not break or crash, you won't see a lot of SADiSTS on forums asking for troubleshooting advice.

SADiE has been the single most important hardware choice here and the systems have always paid for themselves quickly.
Old 22nd February 2011
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
I'm a 16 year SADiST here in the classical recording business.

We have a SADiE PCM 8H, our third SADiE system.



Guys running SADiE quietly go about their business and since the system does not break or crash, you won't see a lot of SADiSTS on forums asking for troubleshooting advice.

SADiE has been the single most important hardware choice here and the systems have always paid for themselves quickly.

Well these comments alone are what I have been assuming a bit. Sort of like the old Maytag-Man?

Also, not necessarily concerned with running too many plugs. More concerned with the physical functionality of the PCM hardwares in terms of a/d d/a quality and if it's almost a no-brainer to favor that route or the native route since v6 has been released. I've primarily been working Mac and DP for creation/mixing and would like to move towards a dedicated mastering rig along with outbrd and really like the idea of the "self-containment" if you will. Thank you for your comments!
Old 22nd February 2011
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropd9 View Post
... More concerned with the physical functionality of the PCM hardwares in terms of a/d d/a quality and if it's almost a no-brainer to favor that route or the native route since v6 has been released.

I don't use the PCM-8 converters so I can't comment on their sound.

However, If I was just starting out then I think a Sadie V6 system paired up with an Orpheus would be a great system to get things going.
Old 22nd February 2011
  #9
PBM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acorneau View Post
I don't use the PCM-8 converters so I can't comment on their sound.

However, If I was just starting out then I think a Sadie V6 system paired up with an Orpheus would be a great system to get things going.
The SADiE converters are really not that great, except for dialogue. We used a 24.96 then a PCM8 system for years doing classical recording/editing and I don't know a single decent engineer who used them - Tony Faulkner used dCS and that sort-of started a trend I think (it's the one we followed anyway). The Orpheus is a very good call - especially now they sleep together.

If this is for mastering, not mainly heavy editing, I'd also explore a little further. I'm a loyal SADiEst for all things classical and for that editing - our sister facility is the only accredited UK training company apart from Westminster University - but no longer for mastering. For recording and editing I have v.5 on an LRX2 and I'm not yet tempted to 6.

Cheers,

Eric
Old 22nd February 2011
  #10
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Mmmm....would think better conversion in a dedicated workstation.

So sounds like for the investment native 6 and a dedicated pc would be best sense? And considering what the hardware reviews seem to be the pcm's may not continue for long?
Old 22nd February 2011
  #11
PBM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropd9 View Post
Mmmm....would think better conversion in a dedicated workstation.

So sounds like for the investment native 6 and a dedicated pc would be best sense? And considering what the hardware reviews seem to be the pcm's may not continue for long?
On conversion: SADiE was originally created for broadcast, not for classical work and mastering - it's suitability for and very great value to these areas was discovered a little later - like the Gibson Les Paul, originally designed not for rock and blues but for smooth jazz and Mary Ford.

I always used my Pyramix with outboard converters too: keep specialists to their specialities (dCS and Lavry don't make DAW's).

The PCM is legendarily rock solid; the native is new.


Eric
Old 23rd February 2011
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBM View Post

like the Gibson Les Paul, originally designed not for rock and blues but for smooth jazz and Mary Ford.

I always used my Pyramix with outboard converters too: keep specialists to their specialities (dCS and Lavry don't make DAW's).

Eric
Well put! Thanks!
Old 23rd February 2011
  #13
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above contains A Gearslutz Fact

Sorry, but some person above has proposed what I have taken to calling a
"Gearslutz fact."

I would like to take issue with the notion that SADiE was not proposed for classical music from the outset and that the converters are not very good.

I have known about SADiE from day one and followed its progress. The BBC used SADiE computers for classical from the beginning and SADiE's strength was (and still is) the trim window. No other editor matches it with this.

The converters on the latest versions of Series 5 PCM H are very good as are the LRX converters. No less a classical freak than Tony F. has stated such.

So the person above stating that the converters are so-so and that the box was not aimed at classical precision edits from the start is not going to find universal acclaim for his pronouncements. Indeed, he has stated a "Gearslutz fact" which is an opinion or myth masquerading as settled consensus.

It is easy to hook up the AES output of the SADiE to a d/a and I agree that this is what most people do. But they do it in order to have volume control as well as to have their chosen d/a converter.

As we know, most program material going in to SADiE is already digitized or is digitized in the studio with the chosen a/d. However, if one uses the SADiE
a/d and d/a I don't think you'll feel or sound like a sinner.
Old 23rd February 2011
  #14
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I appreciate the clarification.

Also, excuse my simplistic questioning regarding Sadie products. There is SOME literature and info out there but not the usual plethora that one might find for most other products.

With that said, I'm terribly interested in the pcm setup and do appreciate all of the feedback Ive gotten to this point. Thanks
Old 23rd February 2011
  #15
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SADiE users here since about 1989 (v2). We have 7 SADiE systems here currently - (1) "Classic" v3, (1) 2496 v4, and (2) DSD/PCM-8 SADiE 5 - and we're running (2) v6 on laptops, plus an LRX! Countless classical and non-classical projects have been edited, mixed, and mastered here on SADiE, both when we were part of Telarc Records and continuing with our current company. The SADiE workstations have been an important part of maintaining the highest audio quality from project start to finish, but just as important: SADiE keeps our workflow as efficient as it can possibly be.

Top drawer all the way!

A recent live session with The Cleveland Orchestra for DG - notice the SADiE 5 in the center as one of two master recorders:



.
Attached Thumbnails
Sadie and mastering-tco-cr_01.jpg  
Old 23rd February 2011
  #16
PBM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Sorry, but some person above has proposed what I have taken to calling a
"Gearslutz fact."

I would like to take issue with the notion that SADiE was not proposed for classical music from the outset and that the converters are not very good.

I have known about SADiE from day one and followed its progress. The BBC used SADiE computers for classical from the beginning and SADiE's strength was (and still is) the trim window. No other editor matches it with this.

The converters on the latest versions of Series 5 PCM H are very good as are the LRX converters. No less a classical freak than Tony F. has stated such.

So the person above stating that the converters are so-so and that the box was not aimed at classical precision edits from the start is not going to find universal acclaim for his pronouncements. Indeed, he has stated a "Gearslutz fact" which is an opinion or myth masquerading as settled consensus.

It is easy to hook up the AES output of the SADiE to a d/a and I agree that this is what most people do. But they do it in order to have volume control as well as to have their chosen d/a converter.

As we know, most program material going in to SADiE is already digitized or is digitized in the studio with the chosen a/d. However, if one uses the SADiE
a/d and d/a I don't think you'll feel or sound like a sinner.
Oh come on Hudson, I'm not the enemy (we both like Broadhurst Gardens remember!) just unclench and re -read my post. You'll have to work really hard to take offence from a long-time SADiE supporter. Did you read the bit about us being accredited SADiE trainers? Have you seen the blurb we've written *for* SADiE?

I was talking about SADIE's original developmental purpose in radio production - maybe I misunderstood the many conversations I've had with the team (they're just up the road from me here in the UK) - of course it was quickly used by Glenn for mastering and by others for classical editing at which it excels: I've been using it for serious classical editing for well over 15 years.

I was also talking about the converters standard in the 24.96 and PCM8 of which I had first-hand experience, not new sets which with the Prism co-operation are of course going to be very different. Are we going to trade Tony stories? I already said he lead the way to dCS for us.

FWIW we still use an LRX2 for classical work because it's new slither card pre-amps and converters are first class and it's editing capabiities cannot be beaten.

Anyone looking for a SADiE detractor will not find one here - though my loyalty did wobble a bit when they took the Xmas snowman out in V.5 - but the question OP was about using SADiE for mastering - which opens up quite different possibilities.

Cheers,

Eric
Old 23rd February 2011
  #17
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A long time Sonic Solutions user that moved to Sadie approx. five years ago.
No regrets.
Solid, elegant platform.
Old 23rd February 2011
  #18
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Nothing is clenched here and little is misunderstood as I read the plain English above. I was reacting to the language that I term a "Gearslutz Fact."

A Gearslutz fact is foisted on readership in the guise of an opinion stated as settled consensus.

I reacted specifically to the notion that the converters (pre Prism era) were not good and that the platform was not originally aimed at classical. Both of these statements are not received without an arched eyebrow here.

Whether SADiE is suitable for a mastering task depends on what kind of mastering one is doing. If it is for Ozzie heavy rock with a dash of Peruvian marching powder and a long list of plug-ins then I would have to recommend against it.

If the mastering task includes tubes, transformers, a white powdered wig
(or white lab coat) and outboard gear as required with quick, easy assembly and touch ups in the edit computer, then it is a great candidate for the center of a mastering set-up.
Old 24th February 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post

If the mastering task includes tubes, transformers, a white powdered wig
(or white lab coat) and outboard gear as required with quick, easy assembly and touch ups in the edit computer, then it is a great candidate for the center of a mastering set-up.
Tubes and transformers a definite part of the equation.
Never wore a white lab coat and had to give up the white powdered wig when the cat peed on it but khaki pants and a t-shirt work well with Sadie here.
Old 24th February 2011
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plush View Post
Whether SADiE is suitable for a mastering task depends on what kind of mastering one is doing. If it is for Ozzie heavy rock with a dash of Peruvian marching powder and a long list of plug-ins then I would have to recommend against it.
I'm not really up on what the kids are listening to these days so I had to search using google. It turns out this Ozzie heavy rock is all the rage with teenagers now and seems to involve satan. Thank you for the warning!

Ruairi
Old 22nd November 2018
  #21
mrc
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I know this is an old thread, but i was hoping to find somebody who knows a few things about the sadie5 built in soundcard. Being an internal soundcard makes me a bit worried about the audio performance.

Thanks!
Old 24th November 2018
  #22
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Hello mrc,

SADiE 5 blue box and associated cards, a/d, and d/a converters are excellent. They are still good. I think that you would be pleasantly surprised about how well their performance and tone has held up since it's introduction more than 10 years ago.

I used SADiE Series 5 for many years and won a lot of awards for sound quality for the productions I made with SADiE.

Units should be available with a rather inexpensive price nowadays.

Keep in mind that SADiE 5 is not supported anymore by PrismSound.
Old 26th November 2018
  #23
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I'm picking up a SADIE 3 tonight which I bought for 20 bucks*

Looking forward to mucking about on it and seeing if I can load Exabytes export a DDP and load on Hofa on my Windows 7 machine I use all day (I have tonnes in storage for an archive I look after)

*it comes with two lengths of decent XLR cables which are worth about 20 bucks
Old 26th November 2018
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
I'm picking up a SADIE 3 tonight which I bought for 20 bucks*

Looking forward to mucking about on it and seeing if I can load Exabytes export a DDP and load on Hofa on my Windows 7 machine I use all day (I have tonnes in storage for an archive I look after)

*it comes with two lengths of decent XLR cables which are worth about 20 bucks
Have fun, Joe!
Old 27th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
I'm picking up a SADIE 3 tonight which I bought for 20 bucks*
Is that the one that uses the X-S and X-ACT ISA bus cards?
Old 27th November 2018
  #26
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from what I can remember (haven't used Sadie 3 in decades) importing and exporting tracks was a real drag. They changed that in Sadie 5. The only good thing about Sadie was the dedicated and very stable hardware.
Old 28th November 2018
  #27
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Of course there is no reason to buy a SADiE 3 system. It is too ancient.

Instead, delight yourself with the current native set up.
Old 28th November 2018
  #28
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Believe it or not I am not planning on using the Sadie 3 for my day job, that would be completely and utterly insane.
Old 30th November 2018
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Believe it or not I am not planning on using the Sadie 3 for my day job, that would be completely and utterly insane.
wise
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