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myths in mastering audio Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 12th April 2010
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
Ok, test yourself against Brian Gardner.

Calm In My Wind (by Darwin James): BG Master 44.1k/24bit
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-24.wav

Calm In My Wind: BG Master 44.1k/16bit .aiff (final CD version)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-16.aiff

Calm In My Wind: Mix 44.1k/24bit
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-mix.wav

Hmm I like Darwins better - Final CD is a bit 'harsh' sounding
Old 12th April 2010
  #92
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Cellotron's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
As far as I recall I remember someone writing that BG's nick name
was Brian "big bottom" Gardner which might explain the extra low end
on his master.
It's ummm... "Big Bass" Gardner. Dr. Dre gave him that nickname.
When Dr. Dre gives you a nickname please let us know what it is! :P

Quote:
I wonder if he really uses the KRK's in the photo?

(maybe there are soffit mounted speakers behind)
There are big Tannoys (at least according to an interview he gave with Mix in 2002) - and based on this article, yes, he uses both - but primarily the mains.
From Brian Gardner ->
Quote:

What do you monitor on?


Our main speakers are Tannoys. And then I have an array of different ones, from NS-10s to KRKs to the new little Yamahas, which DJ Quik just gave me. Those are kind of interesting: They have a switch on them that makes them sound like NS-10s. And they also have adjusters to give you a little more bottom and make them sound better.

They're all just another reference point and for clients to listen on. Really, I depend on the main Tannoys. But I also use KRK 7000s. And little Radio Shack Minima 7s.

Those little things? Why are they on the floor?


I like them there. A lot of people have copied me on that. They don't serve any purpose sitting there in your face; it's an in-the-next-room, on-the-radio kind of thing. Sometimes they're turned the other way; I don't care. It's a good reference. I usually listen to them at a low level and you can tell a lot. Unfortunately, they don't make that particular model anymore.
Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 12th April 2010
  #93
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Darwin James's Avatar
 

In hindsight if I did it again, I'd have had Brian dial the masters back a bit.
Old 12th April 2010
  #94
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Cellotron's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
In hindsight if I did it again, I'd have had Brian dial the masters back a bit.
Luckily making albums over a career is a learning process - so with each one you figure out how to make the next one better.

The big issue that counters that factor is that lots of folks have their entire lives to write their first album, and then only a few months interspersed between touring to write their second.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 12th April 2010
  #95
Deleted User #43636
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I downloaded Darwin's files and did the test. I was happy with my version that I found less harsh and with fuller vocals, but comparing again after a pause showed that my version was a bit muddy, less accurate, less catchy, with some loss of clarity and impact. It gave me lot to think about.

Darwin, thanks a lot for having allowed this very interesting experience.
Old 12th April 2010
  #96
Gear Addict
this thread just gets better and better - I should probably go to sleep but this is too entertaining!
Old 12th April 2010
  #97
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound
I did a little reading on pricing for top end M.E.'s I was not aware that an album could cost between $10K and $20K. $1K or so per track.(unless this was old reading)
That has never been true. I imagine you could get to sums like that if there's a lot of accompanying production work. Otherwise, you can divide that range you posted by 4 or 5, maybe 3 in some cases.
Old 12th April 2010
  #98
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I've just read this thread. Good grief.
Old 12th April 2010
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
Barry "Bang for Buck" Gardner.
Inside voice.

Outside voice: Barry " low cost, free sample" Gardner.
Old 12th April 2010
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowland View Post
I've just read this thread. Good grief.

I don't see anything much in this thread. Dunno what you're on about Mr. Palmer

OT - the ignore list is great. Not that this has any bearing on my misreading of the thread. Honest guv.
Old 12th April 2010
  #101
Llj
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I am just starting out with audio but i think you mastering guys need to read a guy who made monitoring with expensive speakers in a control audio enviroment obsolete.

Sorry can't place any links the mods told me so not in so many words. Jordan
Old 12th April 2010
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
So ME's working at top end facilities are working from home, probably with incredibly similar (or worse, I have seen it) acoustics than I have in my room, who is eroding the boundaries of quality?
My "home studio" [recently decommissioned while I sell my house] has 50k worth of monitoring and amplification. The same monitors that I use at Sterling [except the subs, which are bigger in my home rig].

What does it mean to say "probably with incredibly similar (or worse, I have seen it) acoustics than I have"?

WTF? "Probably with incredibly similar or worse"??

Making up imaginary scenarios that you hope are true to support your position is nonsense.

BTW, I checked out your discography on the link you provided.

There's about five 12" singles on there. Am I missing something? Your sig says [very proudly] 15 years experience.

I'm not trying to pick on you Barry, and you certainly don't have to prove anything to me. How you deal with your clients and what kind of gear/studio you have is your business. You might be a fabulously talented mastering engineer and a great guy for all I know, but some of the things you post are quite curious to me.

Myth # 1000: Pretty good is good enough.

I've officially spent way too much time on this thread.
Old 12th April 2010
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
That has never been true. I imagine you could get to sums like that if there's a lot of accompanying production work. Otherwise, you can divide that range you posted by 4 or 5, maybe 3 in some cases.
Tis true in some rare exceptional cases. For a personal project of mine I reached out to Bob Ludwig and he was indeed in that range. Though, it is Bob Ludwig.... and I suppose if you are Beyonce you have the scratch.
Old 12th April 2010
  #104
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbagump View Post
Tis true in some rare exceptional cases. For a personal project of mine I reached out to Bob Ludwig and he was indeed in that range. Though, it is Bob Ludwig.... and I suppose if you are Beyonce you have the scratch.
Bob Ludwig somewhere between 10k and 20k? For a normal album, no add. work?
Old 12th April 2010
  #105
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aleatoric's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
That has never been true. I imagine you could get to sums like that if there's a lot of accompanying production work. Otherwise, you can divide that range you posted by 4 or 5, maybe 3 in some cases.
Exactly.

I have seen some crazy invoices for major releases back in the day when CD burners cost a small fortune.

Production master CD's to like 8 different countries, special Japan release with bonus track, multiple singles with different B-sides, radio edit, etc.

There was more cost in parts and international shipping than the actual mastering sometimes.
Old 12th April 2010
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
Bob Ludwig somewhere between 10k and 20k? For a normal album, no add. work?
I didn't get too deep into it as I realized quickly it was out of my range. His second string guys (if you can call them that) were in the $300/hr range, $3.5-4k per full length. Bob was maybe $200 per playback minute if I recall (don't quote me) ... so times 60 minutes. But still, a rare exception for a veritable legend. Not passing judgement of any kind, just saying it does exist on the top top end. And they well could have been trying to weed me out as we all know the number of small time prodoosahs that can waste your time.
Old 12th April 2010
  #107
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The range is very wide but a "normal" album with Ludwig or Jensen etc is in the 5-6k range typically - even with production masters. I've done records where the final bill would make that 20k number blush, but those were extraordinary circumstances not ordinary ones.

All nighters, recall a full set of masters that are trashed for one small change and then re-run, multiple singles, clean and dirty masters, alternate passes [dirty, clean, inst, accapella, TV, TV with ad libs etc].

Not to mention all manner of stupid human tricks like overdubbing vocals or guitars or mixing etc [I had meatloaf in my room recently cutting a voiceover for one of his LP tracks on my fathers RCA 44 ribbon mic... fun and weird].

Point is you can spend a ****-load to master if you want but it's not normal or necessary no matter the engineer you choose.
Old 12th April 2010
  #108
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I'll give it one more shot. There is nothing wrong with your studio, monitors or equipment. There is nothing wrong with being low cost or giving free samples.

There is something wrong with believing everything is the finest it can be, including yourself. You won't get better.
Old 12th April 2010
  #109
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
The range is very wide but a "normal" album with Ludwig or Jensen etc is in the 5-6k range typically - even with production masters.
Thanks, that's what I thought.

Bubbagump: Maybe this was some special case in one way or another? Maybe an unfortunate combination of long playing time and a weird booking/priority policy at the time. Who knows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
I had meatloaf in my room recently cutting a voiceover for one of his LP tracks on my fathers RCA 44 ribbon mic... fun and weird
Nice! What about a preamp / monitoring? Does Sterling keep some basic recording gear for emergencies like that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Point is you can spend a ****-load to master if you want but it's not normal or necessary no matter the engineer you choose.
Thank god for major labels' / artists' indecisiveness... ("I don't know... can you prepare all seven versions and we'll decide later?")
Old 12th April 2010
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
Nice! What about a preamp / monitoring? Does Sterling keep some basic recording gear for emergencies like that?
No.

I'm the only freak that does that **** here. Jensen asked me to record Meatloaf for him. McNair could do it but the rest o the gang steer pretty clear of that kind of hijinks.

I think I used a my Chandler LTD1 for what it's worth. Headphones for monitoring.

Not trying to hijack the thread here. Just answering the question. If you guys want to go back to mastering myths or beating up on Barry go right ahead.

...just kiddin' Barry.
Old 12th April 2010
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caput View Post
Ronnie Wood
I think I have done FOH for him some 6-7 years ago or was it another Rolling Stones member I really cant remember. I never thought it was one of my most importand gigs...well maybe it was...anyway...nice thread.
Old 12th April 2010
  #112
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odeon-Mastering View Post
I think I have done FOH for him some 6-7 years ago or was it another Rolling Stones member I really cant remember. I never thought it was one of my most importand gigs.
I really think it may be an age issue. In 1968 I was a student in the UK and Stones seemed very important to many. Honestly though I was more impressed with Jeff Beck's Truth.

SB
Old 12th April 2010
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caput View Post
I was more impressed with Jeff Beck's Truth.
New album out tomorrow...

Amazon.com: Emotion & Commotion: Jeff Beck: Music
Looking forward to this one.
Old 12th April 2010
  #114
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Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caput View Post
I really think it may be an age issue. In 1968 I was a student in the UK and Stones seemed very important to many. Honestly though I was more impressed with Jeff Beck's Truth.

SB
I am only 35 and I think I did that gig at my late 20s....Really enjoyed the musicianship but because it was one of the low profile events, i never gave any thought as to whether it was really importand for my carreer.
I think they were playing blues and quite a few covers as well.
I never implied that Rolling stones or their ex members are not importand but i did imply that bragging about it is not a wise man's action.

For all I am concerned, in here, there are people who can fill pages of credits ...the random engineer that shouts "hey i recorded ronnie wood or so and so.." sounds rather funny to my ears.
Old 12th April 2010
  #115
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
New album out tomorrow...

Amazon.com: Emotion & Commotion: Jeff Beck: Music
Looking forward to this one.
I know ...

Pop Quiz: not including all the obvious, what do Jeff Beck and Tony Iommi have in common?


SB
Old 12th April 2010
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
I don't believe this.
I know you don't. Good luck in your endeavors. I mean that sincerely just in case you're not sure. Now back to the lathe threads.
Old 12th April 2010
  #117
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caput View Post
I know ...

Pop Quiz: not including all the obvious, what do Jeff Beck and Tony Iommi have in common?


SB
They had both played with drummer Cozy Powell,, but I'm guessing that's not it...
Old 13th April 2010
  #118
Gear Maniac
 

years ago we had local guy urgently rock up to mastering needing to add a b-side to a single. just vox and acoustic guitar. it just so happened that I had a mic and pre in my car so we were able to help him out.
the funny thing is that we set him up in the studio and were just about to record when he decides to take a piss. minutes later he yells out, " hey guys, I really love the reverb in your toilet, can you mic me up on the dunny?"

weeks later that track was the one one radio picked up!
Old 13th April 2010
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundroid View Post
minutes later he yells out, " hey guys, I really love the reverb in your toilet, can you mic me up on the dunny?"

weeks later that track was the one one radio picked up!
lol!
Old 13th April 2010
  #120
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Darwin James's Avatar
 

No worries about the files. I can post one more if there is a demand.
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