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myths in mastering audio Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 10th April 2010
  #61
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You've missed quite a few points. Yes, that is my given sir name. My father is Peter and my grandfather was Herman.
Old 10th April 2010
  #62
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I believe it was shortened from Goldmintz at some point in the distant past. I'm not that unimaginative. Notice how the studio is not called something idiotic like Gold Records.

1) Your use of the chip analogy shows a total lack of electronics knowledge. You missed the whole stick. Someone who makes gear decisions based on the number on a chip is an idiot.

2) It is of course possible to do good work in less than ideal environments. Pretending like better architectural acoustics has no bearing on the work produced is stupid. We work in rooms. A better room will allow better work more quickly. There are people who know a lot more about this stuff than you or I.
Old 10th April 2010
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
Are you sure? A little think brings up.....

1 hardware comp $4,000.00 K
1 hardware EQ (if required even) $4,000.00
DAW $2,000.00
Native DSP $ 2,000.00
ADDA $2,000 - $5,000
Monitors $ 6,000.00
Plenty left over for acoustics if DIY
Sure, but you could put together a DAW-based mix room for $50k too. Many people do. My point is that the original post was not comparing apples to apples. You can't compare a million dollar traditional mix room to a project-studio level mastering room.
Old 10th April 2010
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
Try me, someone post something up and we'll go head to head on it
Ok, test yourself against Brian Gardner.

Calm In My Wind (by Darwin James): BG Master 44.1k/24bit
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-24.wav

Calm In My Wind: BG Master 44.1k/16bit .aiff (final CD version)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-16.aiff

Calm In My Wind: Mix 44.1k/24bit
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-mix.wav
Old 10th April 2010
  #65
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Cool! Ill give it a shot.
Old 10th April 2010
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
Ok, test yourself against Brian Gardner.

Calm In My Wind (by Darwin James): BG Master 44.1k/24bit
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-24.wav

Calm In My Wind: BG Master 44.1k/16bit .aiff (final CD version)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-16.aiff

Calm In My Wind: Mix 44.1k/24bit
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1012092/DJ-CIMW-mix.wav
Bro.

You don't give people the finished master that you are going to test their "skill" against. That totally changes the direction their taste and skill would take it. You take the finished master out after they take a crack at it then you compare.

... that's not to mention that it's a silly idea for reasons too boring too enumerate... but hey, if y'all got that much time on your hands and your not busy making records why not I guess.

@ Safeandsound: Dude, we get it. You have a small home based studio with home brew acoustics and no analog gear and you don't understand why you need any because you think your work sounds just fine the way it is.

Cool. If you're happy and you're doing good work you're clients will be satisfied and you can sleep well at night.

No need to go all Napoleon-complex on everyone else. Trust me, the only people that give a **** about how good you are and how good you think your studio is are you and your clients [and your clients don't give a ****].

@ Paul: Dick measuring contests are fun but if we all start comparing monthly billing as a yardstick of our skills the depression rate in the mastering community could skyrocket.


... actually that does sound like fun.
Old 10th April 2010
  #67
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I'm not a "mastering" guy, but I have had to do a lot of it out of necessity. I didn't change much, just some slight eq, compression, and limiting.

Unfortunately I'm using google to host the file and they wont let me add anything over 20 megs, So here's an mp3 rendered at 320.

https://sites.google.com/site/jonhaw...edirects=0&d=1
Old 10th April 2010
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
I thought you were very experienced, you should know these things man.
I should know what kind of line amps you have?

What does that have to do with my vast experience?

I don't get it.

Maybe you're typing too fast or something.
Old 10th April 2010
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
Sorry I was unclear, I meant I thought it was fairly common knowledge that there are a lot of ME's who are operating in a traditionally non professionally designed and treated room.

You only need to look at a few big names photo's of their rooms, there is no shame in it, it is very, very common.

Think of the biggest name in mastering, look like a big deal decor and acoustics wise ? Plenty of these kind of facilities all over the place.

You appear to work at a large professionally designed facility which is established and would never do it again in this climate.
"You appear to work at a large professionally designed facility which is established and would never do it again in this climate."

I think I know what you are getting at with this badly butchered sentence... I think.

Yes it would appear that I work at a large professionally designed studio.

...and I would do it again in a heartbeat. There is no substitute for a well designed room.

If you're talking about Bob Ludwig or Ted Jensen their rooms represent hundreds of thousands of dollars in acoustic treatment and construction.

Plenty of people work out of untreated or barely treated rooms that's for sure.

Doesn't really prove a thing but as I've mentioned it's not a problem for me. No need for defensiveness about it was my point... just do your thing and be proud of the work that comes out of your non- professionally designed no analog EQ havin' studio. No need to sweat what other people have and use.
Old 10th April 2010
  #70
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Jay, would it be too much to ask that postings (especially the know-it-all kind) be limited to folks who have at least one credit on albumcredits.com? Just one teensy-weensy credit? Is that too much to ask?
Old 10th April 2010
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
Think of the biggest name in mastering, look like a big deal decor and acoustics wise ?
Bob Ludwig? Biggest name I can think of, and wow, what a room he has! His speaker stands are anchored to the bedrock.

Quote:
...work at a large professionally designed facility which is established and would never do it again in this climate...
People are still building very serious rooms, even in this climate. You wouldn't do it without a track record or clientele, and there may be certain adjustments to the extravagance of ancillary spaces, but plenty of engineers and clients alike still care about no-compromise solutions to their sound.

It saddens me to see the accelerating race to the bottom. This is not aimed directly at you, but rather something we are seeing more generally in the industry. Bean counters, blind fashionistas, and poseurs are displacing real quality.

I think we should all be striving for the best, even if we can never quite get there. It doesn't mean we can't do great things on the way up, but to not even strive for it...

Every last little bit of quality I can get, every incremental improvement I can make, I care about that stuff. I care about not taking shortcuts. I'm certainly no friend of elitism, nor am I suggesting you can't bring tremendous value without the fancy room and gear, but to see so many not even aspiring to it or acknowledging the difference is disappointing.
Old 10th April 2010
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Bro.

You don't give people the finished master that you are going to test their "skill" against. That totally changes the direction their taste and skill would take it. You take the finished master out after they take a crack at it then you compare.

... that's not to mention that it's a silly idea for reasons too boring too enumerate... but hey, if y'all got that much time on your hands and your not busy making records why not I guess.
Not to mention, these sorts of "challenges" often degenerate quickly, so anybody that wants to mess around with Darwin's tracks (which certainly could be interesting), download them soon, because we'll be moderating this pretty tightly, and the links may need to disappear.

The hearing of a before and after from a big name can be educational (thanks Darwin), but the competition (and resulting posturing) is discouraged for reasons that should be obvious to all who have been around here for more than a little while.
Old 10th April 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
There is more than 1 way of doing things...
Very true. I would not want to imply otherwise.

Let's get back to a more cordial discussion as there is certainly plenty of room for a friendly exchange of ideas on the subject.
Old 10th April 2010
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
@ Paul: Dick measuring contests are fun but if we all start comparing monthly billing as a yardstick of our skills the depression rate in the mastering community could skyrocket.

I wasn't suggesting that this was a good thing to do or a particularly valid comparison. I was just wondering how you would determine you are as good as the best.

About eight years ago I was cutting a lot of Hip Hop promo 12" that were mastered by Tom Coyne. I was very impressed with the quality and consistency of the work. Over the course of over a year I didn't get one master that didn't sound good and cut great. They couldn't have all walked in the door that way. I know he has done stuff other than Hip Hop but that's what I'm familiar with. I can cut a credible Hip Hop master. Without question he is better at it than I am. I formed this opinion over long and varied exposure to the work.

I have no interest in working in the top 40. I love the music I work on. It doesn't sell big. I'm happy.
Old 10th April 2010
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
I think Waltz mastering declined to take part or was joking.
Were you serious?...of course I was joking...
Old 11th April 2010
  #76
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it supposed to be fun, but it finish like most of threads in mastering forum...
guys, get [email protected]@@@king grow up!!! (pardon my French)
you behave like 16 years old 'PRODUCERS' off hiphop forum!!!

'last week I was present at room when Jon Ze Vanker played his solo...' stuff like this is just hilarious))
I've heard more sophisticated stories in sandbox building Sand Castles with my 4 years old mates 35 years ago

This topic supposed to be just for a good laugh, and again same sort of pointless, fruitless blurbs about who's Johnson is bigger ....


Really I can see very strong similar behaviours like in HipHop Forum, same methodology and modesty like Amway door to door sellers
Old 11th April 2010
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
test yourself against Brian Gardner.
Hi Darwin.

First let me tell you what I don't like about Brian's master: the exaggerated bass and treble are unpleasant. Bass wise the song is just tiring, treble wise some strong syllable parts are ruined and continuously it's also tiring. The overall distortion bothers me and the dynamics are exhausting/fatiguing. The "body" of the vocals is too "thin" for my taste, mid frequencies need more emphasis for a more natural/pleasant overall feel.

I'm not saying it's a bad master at all, it's definitely above avarage. I am saying that I much prefer my master.
Old 11th April 2010
  #78
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Darwin, great job on the album.
Old 11th April 2010
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwin James View Post
Ok, test yourself against Brian Gardner.
Thanks Darwin! these are valuable for me!
Old 11th April 2010
  #80
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I miss you Paul Goldmintz.
Old 11th April 2010
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
I have no interest in working in the top 40. I love the music I work on. It doesn't sell big. I'm happy.
Life is good.
Old 11th April 2010
  #82
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I miss you too Joe. I'm sitting here logging billable hours on a Saturday night. I'd rather be drinking.
Old 11th April 2010
  #83
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Red Mastering's Avatar
 

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modesty, modesty, modesty, and modesty again....
Old 11th April 2010
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
I have no interest in working in the top 40. I love the music I work on.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

JT
Old 11th April 2010
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
.. recording Ronnie Wood was one of the most pleasant experiences of my career
Interesting. Was it the breaking up with Jo or the getting (back) together with Katia recording?

SB
Old 11th April 2010
  #86
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IIIrd's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
I miss you too Joe. I'm sitting here logging billable hours on a Saturday night. I'd rather be drinking.
I know the feeling Paul, the sun was out yesterday , it was warm, ..

Oh yeah...what line amps did matey have?...seems we should all know for some reason...
Old 11th April 2010
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
General Music Myths...

The check is in the mail.
thats the biggest myth.
Old 12th April 2010
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
All I was getting at if it was not clear is I doubt there will be another Sterling Sound created in the existing climate, thats it, nothing else.
The best records over time, the ones we all love, are ones where there was no sense of compromise, at any step, including mastering. Yes you can work in your house, I did for a long time and kicked some ass (other people, including those at Sterling might do great work at home right now) but is there any merit to arguing for lower standards in monitoring or in anything? None except laziness.

Why does Sterling exist right now? That's the only basis to ask, "will there be another?" And you're right the answer is likely no. But why not? Because the world already has one! And is there a need for a second large house in a major city that's got accounts with the major labels? Nope. No need at all. If there was a need, it would arise, and be addressed. What does that argument have to do with work quality?

We're in the middle of a game changing era in labels and in engineering, but ... is there still a need for high quality custom work? Yes. Does a good room help? Yes it absolutely does help, there's no doubt about that. So why argue against aspiring for the best in room and work?




As far as the shootout idea, without the clients input a shootout is always a crap shoot. I've "won" or come close to "winning" many of them but to what end? Maybe the other singles are totally different and other skills will be needed than on the first single, does the shootout help there?

It's really only good as a way to weed out the bottom. The custom work element is totally missing from a single shootout, as is the artistic sense of flow, or specific problem solving the ME brings to the whole project. A well mixed single is easy, comparatively, and a blind single is not very helpful to establishing a relationship. A blind (no client input) single with the final product on display is like .... um ... why bother? Client's happy? Then it's done.

So I might like my pass better, or you might like yours better, but does the client? They have the only vote that counts and the assumption here is that Darwin is happy. So again ... why bother? Put a fork in that tune, it's done.
Old 12th April 2010
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
I have analogue equipment (4 analogue compressors to be exact and a dual mono Class A, transformer I/O line driver on it's way) there are incredibly highly rated mastering engineers working out of rooms smaller and less well treated than mine. I thought you were very experienced, you should know these things man.
Any names that spring to mind?
Old 12th April 2010
  #90
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AV_Dub's Avatar
 

I'm way out of my league here but I've downloaded and tried my style with the material. It was very educational! After mastering I downloaded the other files and was a little surprised with comparisons.

I think my nearfields are WAY too hot on the high end.. mine came out quite a bit warmer and smoother. It makes sense if my monitors are top boosted. (a lot). I'm sure my final would sound pretty dead on your guys.

His sounds harsh on the upper mids and highs. (again on my rig) boosted too much from about 12k up, and over-all VERY hot.

I really liked the sound of his on the lower end though.

Thank you for the opportunity.

JBL LSR25P <-- most likely the problem?

So I recorded pink noise on a track to check my entire setup through the JBLs and it showed PERFECTLY flat (I did a double take!) except for a little bump up at exactly 80hz and a gentle roll off at around 18k. Maybe I should roll off more highs anyways.

or importing the .wav into Digital Performer is causing problems. My project is set at 24bit 44k.

oh well, It was fun though!
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