The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Stereo widening - question for pros Spatial Processor Plugins
Old 7th April 2010
  #91
Lives for gear
I didn't want to open a new thread but how can I blend M to S? I basicly want to hear the mono inside stereo without any change in M signal. If possible I'd prefer a dummy explanation like with plug-ins and open x channels in DAW sort of
Old 7th April 2010
  #92
Lives for gear
 
evosilica's Avatar
 

You want to have the M signal blended into the S signal? Doesn't make any sense to me but it should work like this:

S = left - right

so to if you make a track:

left = M; right = -M (phase reversed),

after M/S conversion this would be :

M = L + R = M+ (-M) = 0
and
S = L - R = M - (-M) = 2*M

So basically this track contains the information of M times 2 in S.
You could blend that in now, but it would only increase the volume on the left channel and decrease the volume on the right, in other words it would just pan your M track to the left heh

makes no sense!
Old 7th April 2010
  #93
Lives for gear
 
DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post
Well I was always pretty impressed with the Weiss EQ1 M/S, quite transparent with no processing, but I was mainly referring to the Dangerous S&M encode/decode. It's not hugely coloured but I can certainly hear it when it's switched in even without adjusting the width. As for other Digital incarnations, it's been a while since I've done a proper test.. maybe a null test from L/R to M/S back to L/R & check how cleanly it cancels out. I've tried Flux Epure & Ozone's M/S & while they can come in handy from time to time when you need to get your hands dirty & fix things, on a good mix I much prefer L/R EQ over M/S EQ.

Matt
Ah, probably some coloring due to analog circuits or transformers or so on the Dangerous then
Old 7th April 2010
  #94
Lives for gear
 
DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post
I didn't want to open a new thread but how can I blend M to S? I basicly want to hear the mono inside stereo without any change in M signal. If possible I'd prefer a dummy explanation like with plug-ins and open x channels in DAW sort of
Normally, you can't do that, as M and S are just mathematical signals (especially S doesn't represent a real signal by itself).

Now there is a solution for this, and it's called DrMS heh
My DrMS plugin allows to bleed M info into S, called Focus, or S info into M, called Field. Without stereo shifting and with full mono compatibility.
Old 7th April 2010
  #95
Lives for gear
 
Masterer's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
Normally, you can't do that, as M and S are just mathematical signals (especially S doesn't represent a real signal by itself).

Now there is a solution for this, and it's called DrMS heh
My DrMS plugin allows to bleed M info into S, called Focus, or S info into M, called Field. Without stereo shifting and with full mono compatibility.
Congrats and good luck with the new plug-in Mathijs.
Old 7th April 2010
  #96
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
Normally, you can't do that, as M and S are just mathematical signals (especially S doesn't represent a real signal by itself).

Now there is a solution for this, and it's called DrMS heh
My DrMS plugin allows to bleed M info into S, called Focus, or S info into M, called Field. Without stereo shifting and with full mono compatibility.
heh I actually managed to do something but I'll compare, thanks!

I didn't see anyone mentioning it but here's a plug-in I tryed lately: NuGen Audio Stereoizer – Stereo Widening Plugin, VST and AU

It's very rare that I like widening plug-ins but so far this seems to be very good, here's some info on what it uses:

NuGen Audio - Stereoizer Pychoacoustics | Intuitive control
Old 3rd December 2010
  #97
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazbina View Post
hey guys,

how often do you find yourself using stereo widening and in which amount ?

...stereo widening is very pleasure for the ears, but, how to know when is enough?...are you using stereo analyzer or use your ears approach...

thnx
yes, thats a usefull tool, but there is two important rules:

1. always be careful, use it with care
2 if widening image, always use elliptic EQ to keep the low freq in phase
Old 3rd December 2010
  #98
Lives for gear
 
Cellotron's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by doktorwolff View Post
1. always be careful, use it with care
+1!

Quote:
2 if widening image, always use elliptic EQ to keep the low freq in phase
The only reason this is a need is specifically for vinyl mastering. A digital only release will be fine with out of phase bass frequencies as long as that is in fact the sound you wish to have.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 3rd December 2010
  #99
Lives for gear
 
DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellotron View Post
The only reason this is a need is specifically for vinyl mastering. A digital only release will be fine with out of phase bass frequencies as long as that is in fact the sound you wish to have.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
True, but low frequency out of phase stuff tends to sound very weird anyway, so you'll most likely want to filter (some of) it out.
Old 3rd December 2010
  #100
Lives for gear
 
Cellotron's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
True, but low frequency out of phase stuff tends to sound very weird anyway, so you'll most likely want to filter (some of) it out.
I disagree. If the mix has deliberately out of phase bass frequencies then placing an elliptical eq on the 2 bus can in fact (usually subtly) often change the perception of the impact of the bottom end towards the negative rather than necessarily improving it. And I say this as someone who used to cut DMM masters and got to compare numerous tracks before and after applying elliptical eq.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 3rd December 2010
  #101
Lives for gear
 
DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellotron View Post
I disagree. If the mix has deliberately out of phase bass frequencies then placing an elliptical eq on the 2 bus can in fact (usually subtly) often change the perception of the impact of the bottom end towards the negative rather than necessarily improving it. And I say this as someone who used to cut DMM masters and got to compare numerous tracks before and after applying elliptical eq.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Oh, I agree that it's not something you'd do by default, sorry if I gave that impression. A mix where out of phase bass isn't an 'error' but something 'wanted', you'd obviously leave it in.
Old 3rd December 2010
  #102
Lives for gear
 
Cellotron's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
Oh, I agree that it's not something you'd do by default, sorry if I gave that impression. A mix where out of phase bass isn't an 'error' but something 'wanted', you'd obviously leave it in.
And got to add the truly optimal place to address these needs is in the mix rather than at mastering. i.e. want maximal impact for dance club play, including the vinyl version of this release? - then just leave the kick and bass centered in the middle of the mix, and don't put stereo effects on these elements. This to me will always achieve the goal with the integrity of the mix more in tact than adding yet another processor in the chain to do so instead.

But if someone has placed something like a stereo flanging effect on the bass synth for an electronic track that is solely going to be digitally distributed and they like the way this sounds - then placing an elliptical eq on it simply doesn't make sense.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Jack P / So much gear, so little time
70
amost / Mastering forum
13
hive / So much gear, so little time
9
TLMUSIC / So much gear, so little time
10
danno812 / Music Computers
6

Forum Jump
Forum Jump