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Mastering Grade Patchbay?
Old 18th February 2010
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Mastering Grade Patchbay?

Can anyone recommend a high quality patch bay for mastering? I was contemplating something like the SSL X-Patch but it doesn't have enough points.
Old 18th February 2010
  #2
Give Crookwood a try.
Old 18th February 2010
  #3
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Cellotron's Avatar
 

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I'd say an analog insert controller will get you much farther for the purposes of mastering than a patch bay.

Some solutions other than DIY'ing are:
Crookwood - Welcome to Crookwood
JLM Labs - JLM Mastering Console
Manley Backbone - http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/backbone.html
Dangerous Music Master - Dangerous Master
I.J. Research K-1 - New mastering transfer chain !!!

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 18th February 2010
  #4
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Waltz Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsound View Post
I was contemplating something like the SSL X-Patch but it doesn't have enough points.
How many inserts do you need?
Old 18th February 2010
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
These are widely regarded as second to none.

I was involved in a new build 7 studio complex and these went everywhere.

MOSSES AND MITCHELL
Not in my experience for mastering. I could be wrong but I have never seen myself a cord patchbay in a good mastering room. Crookwood, Manley, SPL and other hardware yes.


SB
Old 18th February 2010
  #6
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Apostolos Siopis's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caput View Post
Not in my experience for mastering. I could be wrong but I have never seen myself a cord patchbay in a good mastering room. Crookwood, Manley, SPL and other hardware yes.


SB
I have seen some, in pictures from Sterling...


I love the crookwood router and hopefully I will be able to afford one soon.
Old 18th February 2010
  #7
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dcollins's Avatar
 

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The "best" is an XLR jackfield. No normals.


DC
Old 18th February 2010
  #8
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Thor's Avatar
 

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Shortlist:

Crookwood
Manley
Cranesong
SPL





Done.

Thor
Old 19th February 2010
  #9
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Cellotron's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
Shortlist:

Crookwood
Manley
Cranesong
SPL

Done.

Thor
I forgot the SPL on my previous list - In Short: Sound Performance Lab

Add also Maselec - MTC-2

As far as the Cranesong Avocet - this is a monitor controller only and not an analog insert controller.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 19th February 2010
  #10
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Cellotron's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caput View Post
Not in my experience for mastering. I could be wrong but I have never seen myself a cord patchbay in a good mastering room.
Greg Calbi for one uses a patch bay.

Best regards.
Steve Berson
Old 19th February 2010
  #11
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Masterer's Avatar
 

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Everyone at Sterling uses a patch bay.
Old 19th February 2010
  #12
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MASSIVE Master's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Everyone at Sterling uses a patch bay.
(Thank Jeebus I'm not the only one...)

I "hard-patch" much of the chain -- But I keep a few things available via the patch bay just to make things go a little easier (I still deal with clients who may bring in the occasional DCC, portable recorders, etc.), or if I want to flip "these" pieces and "those" pieces around.

If I thought for one solitary second that there was any compromise at all to the audio, I'd ditch it in a heartbeat.

But there isn't.

So I don't.

That said - I'm working on getting a Backbone demo unit to test-drive... Although I'd bet that somewhere, that patch bay is going to be connected to it.

THAT said - We're talking about freaking patch bays... Quality parts, quality cables, keep 'em clean -- I don't see an issue here.
Old 19th February 2010
  #13
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Red Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Everyone at Sterling uses a patch bay.
what a relief..
not to be alone in darkness
Old 19th February 2010
  #14
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellotron View Post
Greg Calbi for one uses a patch bay.

Best regards.
Steve Berson
Heavily modified, of course heh
Old 19th February 2010
  #15
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeandSound View Post
These are widely regarded as second to none.

I was involved in a new build 7 studio complex and these went everywhere.

MOSSES AND MITCHELL
The website is poorly designed and takes forever to load. Not a good thing for a company that prides itself on quality. I assume their products are a tad better than their website.
\
FWIW
Old 19th February 2010
  #16
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ONDRAY's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master View Post
(Thank Jeebus I'm not the only one...)

I "hard-patch" much of the chain -- But I keep a few things available via the patch bay just to make things go a little easier (I still deal with clients who may bring in the occasional DCC, portable recorders, etc.), or if I want to flip "these" pieces and "those" pieces around.

If I thought for one solitary second that there was any compromise at all to the audio, I'd ditch it in a heartbeat.

But there isn't.

So I don't.

That said - I'm working on getting a Backbone demo unit to test-drive... Although I'd bet that somewhere, that patch bay is going to be connected to it.

THAT said - We're talking about freaking patch bays... Quality parts, quality cables, keep 'em clean -- I don't see an issue here.
so what type of "hard-patch" bay are you using? XLR, TRS, bantam? do you keep things normalled at all?
Old 19th February 2010
  #17
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

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Direct connection here, no patchbay, no analog router.

JT
Old 19th February 2010
  #18
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MASSIVE Master's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONDRAY View Post
so what type of "hard-patch" bay are you using? XLR, TRS, bantam? do you keep things normalled at all?
I mean "directly connected" --- The chain is connected in "chunks" with the patch bay (Neutrik - TRS - Belden 1800F cables w/Neutrik connectors - just like everything else here) connecting those "chunks" allowing insertion of (?) wherever it's needed. Didn't normal anything...

Geez, I hope that makes sense...

For instance -- The Ibis goes into the STC-8M. That "chunk" is connected to the patch bay. The API5500 is on its own, the Vari-mu is on its own. I can then patch the 5500 before or after the "crane chain" - same as the vari-mu. The HEDD goes to (and from) the bay so I can insert different playback devices (or other converters).


You can see why I'm really interested in the Backbone...
Old 19th February 2010
  #19
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
I'd say an analog insert controller will get you much farther for the purposes of mastering than a patch bay.
Quote:
How many inserts do you need?
Right now we have 4 stereo and 2 mono boxes that need to be connected and are looking to get more soon. I don't think a mastering console like a Backbone would work for us as the room will be used to for mixing also and we need access to other non-mastering hardware. We were thinking XLR would be the best route.
Old 19th February 2010
  #20
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duvalle's Avatar
 

i am not a ME nor is this as high end as most of the brands posted here,
but i use a SIGNEX Smartpatch (16 i/o) for some time now in the studio.
it makes patching and re-ordering outboard chains fun and easy imho! love it.

wonder how a ME would judge the quality of the smartpatch?

. www.signex.com/arc32.html
Old 19th February 2010
  #21
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macc's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
The website is poorly designed and takes forever to load. Not a good thing for a company that prides itself on quality. I assume their products are a tad better than their website.
\
FWIW
Perhaps it needs a patch.

Old 20th February 2010
  #22
Gear Addict
 
Kayo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Everyone at Sterling uses a patch bay.
Hmm.. That's interesting.
I knew of Calbi.. but, you say everyone.. Wow!
So then patchbays for mastering, aren't as bad as many make them out to be...

That's news..

KAyo
Old 22nd February 2010
  #23
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Masterer's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayo View Post
Hmm.. That's interesting.
I knew of Calbi.. but, you say everyone.. Wow!
So then patchbays for mastering, aren't as bad as many make them out to be...

That's news..

KAyo
They are good. Not bad.

Don't need to be fancy either.
Old 22nd February 2010
  #24
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Masterer's Avatar
 

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... And a console with inserts as well of course.
Old 22nd February 2010
  #25
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Red Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
They are good. Not bad.

Don't need to be fancy either.
?? how's that ??
if they're not fancy and not expensive....
they're not REAL MASTERING in'it ??
Old 22nd February 2010
  #26
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
I'm using Signex Isopatch Bantam Pro Series with Mogami Bantam cords.
Old 22nd February 2010
  #27
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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Or your can get one of these K-1 Mastering Transfer Console and not have to use a patchbay.
Old 22nd February 2010
  #28
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Silvertone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
The "best" is an XLR jackfield. No normals.


DC
What DC said here is the most common patchbay used in mastering that I've seen over the years.
Old 21st April 2019
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
The "best" is an XLR jackfield. No normals.
Dave's post inspired me to make one of these for my mix desk. Used Neutrik NZP1RU-12 angled bays and their connectors, with TPR cable.
Attached Thumbnails
Mastering Grade Patchbay?-img_0690.jpg  
Old 21st April 2019
  #30
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S_mask's Avatar
 

All those high-end insert switch boxes are (XLR) patch bays-plus-relays - because you can't connect to an insert switcher without interconnecting cables. Do the relays have a sound? Some might. Certainly, a bay with no relays won't sound like relays... So, that 'XLR jackfield' mentioned above, is more purist - more 'audiophile'-friendly than any insert switcher, since it effectively bypasses the relays (that it doesn't have). The benefit of an insert switcher is how it enables fast re-patching so that one can do A/B comparisons within the brief window of the short-term audio memory. This may help justify expensive symptoms of 'g.a.s.' (; With a few, very good 'gears' that one is able to use on nearly all mixes, one can master without an insert switcher. Broad strokes differences in sonic coloration between compressor types are obvious and therefore need less-fast A/B-ing... Of course, a patch bay is easier to re-patch than 'point-to-point' connections, but 'point-to-point' (sans patch bay) is even more 'blamelesser'...
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