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Really loud master!!! DAW Software
Old 16th December 2009
  #1
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Railwaystudios's Avatar
 

Really loud master!!!

I was given this track the other day it was produced and mastered by a local producer/engineer

I generally keep my masters around -9.5 RMS which in most cases for me is loud enough without doing any damage

I am aware that current major label releases are very very loud I compared this track in question to Ozzy's last album black rain first track which is about -5 RMS but peaks around -4.5 the limiter seems to be set with no head room for conversion it reads 0 peaks and indicates overs almost from the start of play back, the snare in particular suffers for this abuse.

My main question is the song I have uploaded sits at the top around -3.5!!! which I find hard to believe but yet the track although really smashed does not suffer to much for this, I am wondering how the hell this kind of limiting can be achieved its crazy!

I would never want to try and out do this kind of mastering as I like to mix not master most of my own material is sent out for mastering

Any feedback would be appreciated and advice from the mastering guru's out there on how this would be possible!

cheers for reading

R.
Attached Files

Payola Colour Red.mp3 (5.08 MB, 3143 views)

Old 16th December 2009
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Your track actually exceeds the 0 dB mark and clips constantly. You may want to look for meters that offer an indication when the peaks are exceeded.

This is one out of many meters I use.

http://www.sonoris.nl/catalog/meter-...dbf5871e9c67c3

Cheers!
Old 16th December 2009
  #3
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Taurean's Avatar
Hey man, I'm not sure what the raw mix sounds like obviously, but I'd say that track is suffering immensely from "over loudness". Just listen to it. Everything is choking and relentless. The high's are trashy and overall there's no punch on the drums, particularly the snare. I'd say the over compression put a "distance" on the drums especially. I personally call this type of sound the "Blurred Effect". It's the aural equivalent to trying to focus on a visual while moving at a fast pace.
Old 16th December 2009
  #4
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Railwaystudios's Avatar
 

Cheers for the feedback guys just to be clear this is not My mix or master it was given to me last week this is the final song of the EP, I think I was just surprised at how loud the producer/engineer mastered it

I know that it is really smashed and I don't really like the sound my point was though although it is smashed at a crazy level it still does not completely fall apart

I was interested to see what kind of limiting or clipping technique could be used to get this loud!

My own work usually sits around -9.5 which I find loud enough
Old 16th December 2009
  #5
Gear Nut
 

Pretty bad, but I've heard worse

I doubt they used a limiter to any great extend. That kind of mush comes from compression with 20 - 30 dB gain reduction, fairly mild ratio and "variable" release.

Sounds like a 1950-1960's Fairchild VolumeMax that has been EQ'd after compression (they used to kill the highs).

If you ever hear an original 7" pressing of "8 days a week" you'll hear something similar (but with more highs)

Bob
Old 16th December 2009
  #6
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdisc View Post
Pretty bad, but I've heard worse
I doubt they used a limiter to any great extend. That kind of mush comes from compression with 20 - 30 dB gain reduction, fairly mild ratio and "variable" release.
Really? It sounds like 100% mastering limiting here.


DC
Old 16th December 2009
  #7
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Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdisc View Post
Sounds like a 1950-1960's Fairchild VolumeMax
The Volumax (if that's what you meant) was by CBS Laboratories, and is a multiband limiter. If there really was a VolumeMax by Fairchild, I'm surprised that -A- I've not heard of it and -B- it wasn't used in broadcasting.

While we're talking about removing the bad limiting on the song... someone PLEASE press bypass on the auto-tune while we're at it.
Old 16th December 2009
  #8
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Arksun's Avatar
I listened for about 50 seconds and couldn't take anymore after that. Kept having to lower the volume as it felt very fatuiging. That's listening on speakers not headphones/earphones.

Not that it sounded badly distorted, it sounded surprisingly smooth in the very top end for something soo heavily crushed (albeit lacking in sub and a bit piercing in mid range), but the dynamics just sounded... ugh, hard to describe, not of this earth. It was like a constant feeling of pressure against my ear drums that felt uncomfortable.

How do kids these days listen to hours of this stuff in ipods, whats it doing to their natural ability to hear dynamics and use them in our everyday environment?. I'm kinda glad I was born in the 70's now and not in this decade growing up with this to begin with.
Old 16th December 2009
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncajesse View Post
The Volumax (if that's what you meant) was by CBS Laboratories, and is a multiband limiter. If there really was a VolumeMax by Fairchild, I'm surprised that -A- I've not heard of it and -B- it wasn't used in broadcasting.

While we're talking about removing the bad limiting on the song... someone PLEASE press bypass on the auto-tune while we're at it.
You were right about it being CBS (and the name)

Although they refer to it as a "limiter" it has a 4:1 ratio which I call compression.
Heres a reference article: The CBS Audimax and Volumax, by Charles S. Fitch

If you really cranked the input to it you got the kind of sound on this master.

Bob
Old 16th December 2009
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
Really? It sounds like 100% mastering limiting here.


DC
To me the upper mids/high end doesn't have the same tone of grunge I've heard from mastering limters - even soft knee ones.

The sound reminded me of "8 Days A Week" which had a "Stuck needle" on a VU Meter - When I first saw 8DW on a meter I couldn't believe it.

But, of course, I haven't heard all of the mastering limiters out there.
Bob
Old 16th December 2009
  #11
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Railwaystudios's Avatar
 

Thanks again guys for the feedback, A little birdie told me that he works completely in the box and masters using Wavelab and plugins

Do you think there is a possibility of stacking several limiters together rather than using one for example three UAD precision limiters??

I would assume that major compression on the output bus while mixing also someone suggested 20 - 30 DB of reduction

Again I believe he uses plugin comps
Old 18th December 2009
  #12
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Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdisc View Post
Although they refer to it as a "limiter" it has a 4:1 ratio which I call compression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.rwonline.com/article/3830
The FM Volumax was probably the first limiter to level the pre-emphasized portion of the upper end audio above about 2 kHz in a separate sidechain gain controller. The result was a more natural audio leveling that was not bottomed or "plunged" by a random high-end audio component like a record pop (remember records?).

A little lazy, the FM Volumax attenuated any peaks that got by via soft clippers made of complimental zeners on the line-level output.
Mostly true, certainly true for any mass-marketed solution in a single box for final loudness. Before that there was a few high-frequency specific limiters, none the least... actually... the Fairchild Conax.



And the conax was certainly not bad for its time, but really not up to par with the rest of the signal quality at the time for 75uS pre-emphasis. But still allowed way more loudness at the expense of some IMD and plenty of THD. Some of our upper-classmen that have cut vinyl for a long time have certainly seen 1-2 of these before.

As far as the little birdy, tell it thanks.
Old 18th December 2009
  #13
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wado1942's Avatar
 

Quote:
I only have Adobe Audition on my internet PC and the file stats suggested the average RMS was -8.4dB.
Change the detector to "sine", 300ms window and that's the standard according to AES I believe. He was also probably going by the max RMS level, not average.
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