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Mastering for Vinyl
Old 28th November 2009
  #1
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ianbryn11's Avatar
 

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Mastering for Vinyl using Ozone 4

Hello, i know this has been discussed here before, but my question is a bit more specific... I just finished recording a few songs for a spit EP for a band that is going to be priinted to 7 inch Vinyl. I admitedly dont know too much about mastering, and i usually use a few compressors, and then a layer of Ozone... I noticed that there was a "Vinyl" preset in Ozone 4. I tried it, and it sounds good, not quite as loud as some others, but i like it. Is this preset designed for mastering to Vinyl, or is it supposed to give a vinyl type of feel or sound on a cd? Should i try to get the volume up a bit, or is vinyl supposed to be mastered softer than say a cd, or other medium. If someone is familiar with this preset, and can shed some light on mastering to vinyl, that would be great.

Thanks
Ian
Old 28th November 2009
  #2
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loud ( digital ) is not important for loudness on vinyl ..... it's a different world ..
Old 29th November 2009
  #3
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yea, it seems like it... i was just reading some other threads about it, and they made me a bit nervous.. Especially, because my digital mix is sounding really good, to my ears at least... i would hate to release it to vinyl and have it sound bad.... The band who played the songs really did a good job... i wanna do the music justice.... i found some good stuff in the Vinyl guidlines thread.... GOnna read it over tomarow in front of my speakers.....
Old 29th November 2009
  #4
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best would be to have the good sounding mix not processed by ozone or other processor and just have it mastered by the cutting engineer for the vinly release
Old 29th November 2009
  #5
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so in other words, don't do anything to the master buss?
Old 2nd December 2009
  #6
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yeah why not if you have it mastered, let it be done then for the purpose of vinyl cutting/playback
Old 2nd December 2009
  #7
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I think the 'vinyl' preset would be to emulate the sound on vinyl.

Just back off the limiting, ensure there is no clipping, and check the out of phase information for potential problems...or do a search, there is loads of information.
Old 4th December 2009
  #8
Gear maniac
 

Only one advice: scrape some money together, go to a mastering studio, let them do the work. Mix it as good as you can and don't touch the dynamics. ... And be present when they master it.

Mastering studios (at least the one's i use for vinyl) have incredible gear and usually are vey experienced in their field, there's nothing you can do to your music that a good mastering engineer won't be able to do a lot better.
Plus, for a 7", the price should stay pretty low and you'll be amazed at your own music - you'll be able to hear stuff you hadn't even noticed in the studio, which btw is a great way of learning a lot of new stuff for the next releases.
Old 4th December 2009
  #9
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i am actually having a freind master it, he has done things like this before, and he is mastering the other side of the split 7 inch.... im looking forward to hearing it..
Old 5th December 2009
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Whenever I supply audio for vinyl, I go for around 12db RMS rather than 9db (CD).
No hard limiting and at 96/24 PCM.
I'll match the gaps to the CD and give a wav for side one and a wav for side two.
Old 5th December 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
Whenever I supply audio for vinyl, I go for around 12db RMS rather than 9db (CD).
No hard limiting and at 96/24 PCM.
I'll match the gaps to the CD and give a wav for side one and a wav for side two.
thumbsup

96 24 it is overkill though..remember it's a 7" and much above 10k is usually lost to IGD (depending on your pick up) and the the cuter will filter out much above 15k. no need whatsoever to brickwall or provide a limited for cd source...you'll be doing you music a diservice.

but the above, is what i'd be very happy with. not sure what the rms means ...but if it's hitting +3 on my VU's that'll be cool.

good advice Mr Tone
Old 6th December 2009
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
Whenever I supply audio for vinyl, I go for around 12db RMS rather than 9db (CD).
No hard limiting and at 96/24 PCM.
I'll match the gaps to the CD and give a wav for side one and a wav for side two.

This is a total newb question, but how do you measure RMS? I have the waves Gold and Renaissance package> is there a plug that will tell you when youve reached 12db RMS?

Thanks
IAn
Old 6th December 2009
  #13
Gear maniac
 

IMO and in my experience having cut a lot of music to vinyl in mastering studios:

1. The source quality matters A LOT - so the better source you provide, the better the result, so 96khz/24bit is nowhere near wrong. My favourite engineer likes his converters better when they have 44.1Khz/24bits as an input, but that's his choice, best is to ask your guy. I've seen people master from 2"tapes or NAGRA recorders directly, and you reallly, really hear the difference.

And even if the engineer rolls off the low and high ends (btw 15Khz, i've NEVER seen - 19-20 is more frequent in my experience, but i've seen my guy not roll off the highs at all in some cases), do not fiddle with your mix's spectrum, let him do the job. Don't compress, don't limit the master bus.
As for the levels, don't bother with that, the engineer will do that too, just make sure you're under 0db and have no artifacts leaping over 0db (SSL's free X-ISM plugin is a good way to monitor that)

2. Let him do the cutting as well- i've found that delivering one file/side if you have more traks per side is sometimes kind of a pain and the engineer sometimes has to cut and place it again - unnecessary. Just deliver 1 file/track, this is something that won't hold your engineers workflow but only make it easier in case you have to play with the gap-length.
Old 25th November 2011
  #14
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It would be nice to have a sticky at the top of the Mastering Forum with advise for engineers who are mixing with vinyl in mind. I think we can all agree that it's nice to see vinyl making a comeback and it's imperative we don't piss off the buyers like we've managed to do with overly limited cds.
Old 25th November 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbryn11 View Post
This is a total newb question, but how do you measure RMS? I have the waves Gold and Renaissance package> is there a plug that will tell you when youve reached 12db RMS?
Measuring RMS is unimportant. Just make sure that the mix is sitting somewhere in the middle of the range. This means no red lights on peaks and the average level should sit somewhere in the middle of the scale.

You have to convert this digital level measured in dBfs to an analog level measured in dBu (among other standards) to listen to it or cut it. The relationship between dBfs and dBu is not fixed. If you take a 12dBfs signal it's a crap shoot what level in dBu will be produced. It depends on how the DA converter is calibrated.

So it is unimportant what specific level you provide as long as it's not at the extreme ends of the scale.

RMS is a strange way to meter audio signals. Most audio metering has defined standards for ballistics. RMS is commonly used for measurement of signals but not for metering. RMS seems to be working it's way into the metering lexicon though. Laarso?
Old 1st December 2011
  #16
It's important to tame the highs: Beware of emphasized sibilance noise burst comming from the letters s, f, and t 6-12khz. Try to keep the dynamics as well...

/Jon
Old 1st December 2011
  #17
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Originally Posted by yllet View Post
It's important to tame the highs: Beware of emphasized sibilance noise burst comming from the letters s, f, and t 6-12khz. Try to keep the dynamics as well...

/Jon
So start to use the old de-esser on vocals again! Must try those old DBXs that are sitting on a shelf in store room for years!

Old 1st December 2011
  #18
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Bonati's Avatar
 

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Originally Posted by Beech View Post
So start to use the old de-esser on vocals again! Must try those old DBXs that are sitting on a shelf in store room for years
Be careful with stuff like that - cutting engineers usually make those decisions. You just might end up mangling your audio by trying to predict what you think needs to be done for a good transfer to vinyl.

Seems like a good idea at first, but then...

Old 2nd December 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IIIrd View Post
thumbsup

96 24 it is overkill though..remember it's a 7" and much above 10k is usually lost to IGD (depending on your pick up) and the the cuter will filter out much above 15k. no need whatsoever to brickwall or provide a limited for cd source...you'll be doing you music a diservice.

but the above, is what i'd be very happy with. not sure what the rms means ...but if it's hitting +3 on my VU's that'll be cool.
All true, although to me it has nothing to do with an imagined extended freq response on vinyl, and everything to do with avoiding unnecessary conversions (of a >44k source).
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