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switching to solar power .. who's next Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 21st November 2009
  #31
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being self-sufficient en off the grid is my primairy motivation ..
it's just stupid wasting all the free energy out-there ..
nuclear power ???? is that an option .... oil and other classic systems are running out ...
we all should be able to have our home energy systems running on hydrogen someday soon ...

global change in temperature has always been there since the big-bang .. ice-ages .. the world is in constant change ..
we're just in transition to a new source off energy .. we're leaving the oil age ...
more and more species of animals are disappearing/getting distinct in this world now at the most fastest pace ever know ...
Old 21st November 2009
  #32
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.narcomam............With all due respect you are wrong.> click on the link and look at the graphs. The evidence is that if there were damage to our ozone the earth would be getting cooler. Im no scientest but you can't argue 20years of documented MIT study! That is one peice of evidence I am willing to believe.

The strong push the other way is only a theory, up untill now there has been no proff either way that is why it took 20years! SO IT IS HARD EVIDENCE NOT SOME THEORY! LIKE EVOLUTION

Try and open your mind a bit. You can do it!
Old 21st November 2009
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
being self-sufficient en off the grid is my primairy motivation ..
it's just stupid wasting all the free energy out-there ..
nuclear power ???? is that an option .... oil and other classic systems are running out ...
we all should be able to have our home energy systems running on hydrogen someday soon ...

global change in temperature has always been there since the big-bang .. ice-ages .. the world is in constant change ..
we're just in transition to a new source off energy .. we're leaving the oil age ...
more and more species of animals are disappearing/getting distinct in this world now at the most fastest pace ever know ...
I agree 100%. If that is why you are doing it then go for gold! I just get so sick of people believing whatever they get pumped with. The earth is in a total state of change. It will get hotter then colder then hot again.> I just wish more people caring for human life than wasting time on environmental snot!

I'm gonna go read some gear threds and cool off.
Old 21st November 2009
  #34
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That's some VOID

Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
WOW, you get government rebates in the US to?
Its amazing how all the major countrys have this enviro rebate going at the same time?

Could there be some underlying factor in play here?


Seriously guys, dont waste your money. Look into the copenhagen agreement your president has come up with.

This environmental rubbish has 99% of us blindfolded
Even if you don't believe in global warming per se, I think it's common sense to attempt to reduce pollution and environmental impact - don't **** in your own pond mate! I tried to play the video but it had been removed by Fox news - who have to be the most unreliable of source of so-called 'information' anyway - if you like conspiracy theories (which it sounds like you do) just watch the 'Out-Foxed' doco...

If you had a choice between messing up the air with burning fossil fuels versus a cleaner source like solar, wind, or heat exchange wouldn't you choose the latter. Why pollute the air? It makes about as much sense to me as religion does.

Or am I missing the point entirely and your post was in jest?

Governments already 'overide and control' to some extent, at least this latest direction in policy is a reflection both of public concern (ie votes), scientific study (peer reviewed), and basic survival of the species. Corporations too are realising things can't go on as they have been (we just don't have the resources) so they're always looking at the bottom line in a new way - purely out of expediency mostly I suspect, but they will have much to gain from behaving responsibly towards their greatest asset - customers. The dinosaurs are dying, shame we have to prop some of them up - especially when they spend bale out money on new boardrooms - precisely why they fail - that kind of behaviour doesn't work.

I think you need to read New Scientist a bit more to get the full extent of man's impact on the planet in general or at least try a tv channel called the ABC, Fox news on the other hand will lead you to believe that they did find weapons of mass destruction, atheists have no morality, global warming isn't happening, and all manner of right wing rubbish wrapped up as 'journalism'... Purlease

The King
Old 21st November 2009
  #35
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da goose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
being self-sufficient en off the grid is my primairy motivation ..
it's just stupid wasting all the free energy out-there ..
nuclear power ???? is that an option .... oil and other classic systems are running out ...
we all should be able to have our home energy systems running on hydrogen someday soon ...

global change in temperature has always been there since the big-bang .. ice-ages .. the world is in constant change ..
we're just in transition to a new source off energy .. we're leaving the oil age ...
more and more species of animals are disappearing/getting distinct in this world now at the most fastest pace ever know ...
amen!

I couldn't describe it better myself!
Old 21st November 2009
  #36
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voidtunes's Avatar
 

Thats some void!.......... LOL....Good one!.......... well thought up!......... yeah this voidtunes guy must be a real dead head.........


After that rant. Try this one (Not Fox News)

2GB Media Player - Is the Copenhagen treaty about creating a world government?


Dont just assume I'm wrong.
Its a shame the other link no longer works. It shows that to cr8 a loss of 1 edegree F we would have to stop the worlds electricity supply for a whole year. We whould also have to stop farting and plug up all the cows as well.............(not gonna happen) and thats just for 1 degree. So even if it were all for real we couldnt stop it anyway.

Its not that I don't believe in a cleaner world. Im not out the back burning tyres or anything. I'm just saying there are more important isues at hand here! "Like the freedom to have debates such as this."
Old 21st November 2009
  #37
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
.narcomam............With all due respect you are wrong.> click on the link and look at the graphs. The evidence is that if there were damage to our ozone the earth would be getting cooler. Im no scientest but you can't argue 20years of documented MIT study! That is one peice of evidence I am willing to believe.

The strong push the other way is only a theory, up untill now there has been no proff either way that is why it took 20years! SO IT IS HARD EVIDENCE NOT SOME THEORY!

Try and open your mind a bit. You can do it!
It isnt hard evidence - it's statistics and conjecture..... the problem is that the only group that are opposing general concensus is an American and backed by a pro-fossil fuel organisation... the USA gov. The Un review tells the opposite.... so who is right?


Either way...I'd go an update your research, I was a research scientist at NTU under the Virtuosi project for 8 years so I've definitely a handle on the stats involved and more than capable of arguing with most of that research group rather listen to them "gratis".... !! ... the MIT study is biased and american. A country with governmental interests in NOT accepting global warming.... I mean remember Kyoto?. ..

.. I did a presentation for the Virtuosi project to MIT back in ninety-two. Didn't have a single mathematician present capable of grasping the concepts.... so MIT ? they run with what finances them..... I didn't trust their pro warming studies in the 80's and I dont trust this one either. Oh - and check out Moncktons background - then tell me you trust his motives!!



Global sea temperature is up over the last 100 years - likely natural - but it's a twenty thousand year shift in one century. Polar ice is in huge recession too.... further warming evidence. Again - likely natural but you cant rule out man made interference....... it's amusing that no-one of repute has backed this study by the way .......


Anyway - we're hijacking this so lets leave it. Go check out who Dr Pat Reynolds is and look at his ratified research... I'll ask him for a copy of his results if you like.... and I'd trust him over ANY MIT stats review... especially since his teams research review is tied to the UN and NOT the USA !! The point is - keep an open mind, like you suggested I do - not ignore evidence like MIT did.
Old 21st November 2009
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
Thats some void!.......... LOL....Good one!.......... well thought up!......... yeah this voidtunes guy must be a real dead head.........


After that rant. Try this one (Not Fox News)

2GB Media Player - Is the Copenhagen treaty about creating a world government?


Dont just assume I'm wrong.
Its a shame the other link no longer works. It shows that to cr8 a loss of 1 edegree F we would have to stop the worlds electricity supply for a whole year. We whould also have to stop farting and plug up all the cows as well.............(not gonna happen) and thats just for 1 degree. So even if it were all for real we couldnt stop it anyway.

Its not that I don't believe in a cleaner world. Im not out the back burning tyres or anything. I'm just saying there are more important isues at hand here! "Like the freedom to have debates such as this."
I actually agree with you about the global warming scare. It's complete bull crap. How come ALL our other planets in the solar system are heating up as well? Even Pluto. Are there SUV's there?

Anyhow, going solar powered and wind powered is a GREAT thing still. Burning Oil and Coal is a VERY BAD thing in general and there are so many more sensible ways of creating energy.. not to mention the power hold the oil/coal giants have over the rest of the world.

Go green but refuse the "greenies".. they are usually as blind to facts as any fundie whacko.

Cheers!
bManic
Old 21st November 2009
  #39
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Verified Member
everyone should make up his on mind in what to believe ...
I also see the mass amount off miss-information spread around by people/compagnies/countrys to protect their own interest ..

in the end it's your choice what to do and what to believe ..,
I don't believe in to much regulation by the governement .. but it would be great if they could force the E-compagnys to pay normal/good prices for the energy we give back to the NET .. in Germany it worked out very well ... solar is getting profitable ...

it's like riding my ducati .... every time I get off .. there's that big grin ...
I would love to see my roof converted into my own E-factory ..
Old 21st November 2009
  #40
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UnderTow's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
Sorry, but I think you wasted your money>
Global warming is bunch of crap invented by the government to make us all agree to a world wide evironmental governing body. This will give them the power to overide and control.
Invented by the government? Which government? There are 194 countries represented in the IPCC. Doesn't that at the very least make you wonder?

Quote:
Something like 31000 science gurus have come forward to admit this fact since a 20year old MIT study confimed it!
That sounds impressive... until you compare it to the over two million scientists that do believe we have a very serious problem with global warming.

Secondly those 30K people are mostly NOT scientists. Their so called spear head, John Coleman, is a weather man.

But don't take my word for it. Look at the organisations that support the IPCC and believe that global warming is real and caused by human influence:
Scientific opinion on climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And keep this particular quote in mind: "With the release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in 2007, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate change.[70]"


Quote:
Don't believe everything your told on TV!tutt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbBRh...874&feature=iv
Saying that and then giving a link to something from Fox News doesn't exactly demonstrate great intelligence mister.

I don't believe I can convince you. That is OK. Some people are more interested in conspiracy theories than good science.

Alistair
Old 21st November 2009
  #41
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post
Thats some void!.......... LOL....Good one!.......... well thought up!......... yeah this voidtunes guy must be a real dead head.........


After that rant. Try this one (Not Fox News)

2GB Media Player - Is the Copenhagen treaty about creating a world government?


Dont just assume I'm wrong.
Its a shame the other link no longer works. It shows that to cr8 a loss of 1 edegree F we would have to stop the worlds electricity supply for a whole year. We whould also have to stop farting and plug up all the cows as well.............(not gonna happen) and thats just for 1 degree. So even if it were all for real we couldnt stop it anyway.

Its not that I don't believe in a cleaner world. Im not out the back burning tyres or anything. I'm just saying there are more important isues at hand here! "Like the freedom to have debates such as this."
I try not to assume anything, though my post no doubt came off rather high handed I admit.

Alan Jones and Monckton however don't make a convincing combination for me. I'm not sure if you've read the book Jonestown, but for our overseas visitors it has to be said that Alan Jones is what's known here as a 'shock jock' with little real credibility, his involvement in the 'cash for comment' scandal proved a couple of rather sad facts. Firstly that he was freely mixing editorial and advertorial material on air - and was being remunerated handsomely by several companies for the service - the Optus deal alone being three figures... Secondly he lied to the regulator about his contracts when questioned (fellow jock John Laws was strangely honest and admitted "I've always been a salesman") and thirdly the regulator was so toothless that he remained on air while the station itself got a mild rap on the knuckles.

Now I agree with Jones (amazingly) that Kevin Rudd has failed to deliver on the pledges (and spirit) he made which brought Labor to power, but I don't for a moment buy into the idea that there's nothing to worry about in regards to global warming and pollution in general. And I won't miss the Bush/Howard era either - I don't know many who will.

It's not that I'm not interested in re - examining evidence based material, but once again I question the quality of your information sources...

Glad to hear there's no tire burning going on

Debate is a good thing, but given that the co2 is increasing if we take steps (even small ones) isn't that better than doing nothing at all?

The King
Old 21st November 2009
  #42
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Verified Member
Actually I've just realised we're wasting precious power on this 'debate'.

I'm going to do the right thing now and sign off, how about the rest of you guys eh?

Do it for the planet.

The King
Old 21st November 2009
  #43
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UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Bowden View Post
I tried to play the video but it had been removed by Fox news - who have to be the most unreliable of source of so-called 'information' anyway - if you like conspiracy theories (which it sounds like you do) just watch the 'Out-Foxed' doco...
Here a great example of Fox News journalistic integrity:
YouTube - The Truth About Amsterdam, RE: Bill O'Reilly loves Amsterdam
YouTube - Amsterdam versus O'Reilly 2

Alistair
Old 21st November 2009
  #44
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UnderTow's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
I actually agree with you about the global warming scare. It's complete bull crap. How come ALL our other planets in the solar system are heating up as well? Even Pluto. Are there SUV's there?
You mean this stuff: Global warming on other planets in the solar system

Alistair
Old 21st November 2009
  #45
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
hehe.... exactly. Impossible to measure !!
Old 21st November 2009
  #46
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SonOfSteven's Avatar
 

Yeah guys dont believe everything u see on TV.

but you CAN believe everything you see on Youtube thumbsup
Old 21st November 2009
  #47
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UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by voidtunes View Post

Dont just assume I'm wrong.
Its a shame the other link no longer works. It shows that to cr8 a loss of 1 edegree F we would have to stop the worlds electricity supply for a whole year. We whould also have to stop farting and plug up all the cows as well.............(not gonna happen) and thats just for 1 degree. So even if it were all for real we couldnt stop it anyway.


That just tells us how important it is to act quick.

Quote:
Its not that I don't believe in a cleaner world. Im not out the back burning tyres or anything. I'm just saying there are more important isues at hand here! "Like the freedom to have debates such as this."
Actually, there is nothing more important right now. Absolutely nothing. Think a bit. If the climate does indeed go ballistic, you won't be worrying about freedom of speech much. Simple logic really.

Quote:
I just wish more people caring for human life than wasting time on environmental snot!
Actually, human life isn't that precious. There are 7 billion of us or so and growing. We are not endangered. Does that sound hard to you? Cruel? It isn't. It is just rational rather than sentimental.

What this planet needs more than anything else is population growth control.

Alistair
Old 21st November 2009
  #48
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may I invite you guys down to the political subforum (aka the sewer).
So we can have that discussion for the 20th time..
Old 21st November 2009
  #49
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Llitsor's Avatar
 

But will it result in more top end clarity, and extended lows that only whales in the very depths of the deepest oceans will be able to hear and appreciate?
Old 21st November 2009
  #50
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roostert's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=narcoman;4807782]... the fact IS though - that temperature shift in the polar regions has shifted in 100 years the same amount it has done in the past over 20,000 years.

Global sea temperature is up over the last 100 years - likely natural - but it's a twenty thousand year shift in one century.

So just how accurate was the thermometer 20,000 years ago?
Old 21st November 2009
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roostert View Post
So just how accurate was the thermometer 20,000 years ago?
You are kidding right? You had science at school, right? Just in case you are really not kidding, here is one way to know historical temperatures: Ice core - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Otherwise google paleo-climate research. That is if you are really curious about the subject of course...

Alistair
Old 21st November 2009
  #52
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Wim you created a global warming debate just trying to save the planet. haha.

30 years ago it was "you are going to freeze to death in the coming ice age". Now it is your going to burn to death in the coming heat wave. The sun is responsible for heat on the earth, follow the sun spots and changes with it and you'll see correlation in temperature. Don't take my word for it, stand outside when the sun goes down, if it gets cooler you've become a scientist. You know something is up when they have labeled one of the four fundamental building blocks of human and plant life, carbon dioxide, a toxin.
Old 21st November 2009
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strobian View Post
Now it is your going to burn to death in the coming heat wave.
No one is saying that. If you don't even know or understand what the scientific community is saying it is very easy to ridicule but it doesn't make you look very informed.

Quote:
The sun is responsible for heat on the earth, follow the sun spots and changes with it and you'll see correlation in temperature.
That is not what the vast majority of the scientific community believe:

Climate myths: Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist
Sun Blamed for Warming of Earth and Other Worlds | LiveScience
Solar activity & climate: is the sun causing global warming?
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 'No Sun link' to climate change
Changing Sun, Changing Climate
There is No Sun-Link with Global Warming | Universe Today

Quote:
Don't take my word for it, stand outside when the sun goes down, if it gets cooler you've become a scientist.
Duh. This is just too stupid to address.

Quote:
You know something is up when they have labeled one of the four fundamental building blocks of human and plant life, carbon dioxide, a toxin.
No one has labelled CO2 a toxin. The only people that even say these things are people that are obviously utterly ignorant and create a straw man argument that they can then ridicule.

Too much of anything is never good. Try drinking 10 litres of water in one go. You will die. Does that mean that water is bad for you? No. It means that too much water is bad for you.

Alistair
Old 21st November 2009
  #54
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roostert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
You are kidding right? You had science at school, right? Just in case you are really not kidding, here is one way to know historical temperatures: Ice core - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Otherwise google paleo-climate research. That is if you are really curious about the subject of course...

Alistair
Yeah, I was kiddin'.....I was wonderin' how long it would take for someone to get their panties in a wad...

And, yeah, I was aware of Ice core methods.....which opens up a whole other discussion that I rather enjoy, but do not want to derail things any further.

I think sometimes we take ourselves too seriously as humans, and how "intelligent" we are. We tend to blame ourselves for everything, and think we can fix everything...through science. Imagine how much better things would be if we were all just good stewards to our planet? Just did the basics, and operated with a conscience.

It's an interesting post, and I've enjoyed reading it. My dad was an early adopter of solar energy panels. We started using them back in the 70's on our farm...The technology was very "ancient" at that time, compared to what we have available currently....However the main problem with solar was, and is....it's ineffeciency in converting the energy. Not to mention the environmental issues it can create over time as well, as someone earlier posted.

It's great to see that people care, and want to make a difference.....

I'm on board for Geo-thermal.....however, it's gonna cost me a lot to drill that hole!

Now I'm gonna go finish another mix.
Old 21st November 2009
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roostert View Post
Yeah, I was kiddin'.....
Great.

Alistair
Old 21st November 2009
  #56
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by roostert View Post

So just how accurate was the thermometer 20,000 years ago?
you monkey
Old 21st November 2009
  #57
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strobian View Post
Wim you created a global warming debate just trying to save the planet. haha.

30 years ago it was "you are going to freeze to death in the coming ice age". Now it is your going to burn to death in the coming heat wave. The sun is responsible for heat on the earth, follow the sun spots and changes with it and you'll see correlation in temperature. Don't take my word for it, stand outside when the sun goes down, if it gets cooler you've become a scientist. You know something is up when they have labeled one of the four fundamental building blocks of human and plant life, carbon dioxide, a toxin.
paradoxically - global warming WILL cause a local european ice age - although we're not quite out of the last one yet !!
Old 21st November 2009
  #58
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roostert's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
you monkey
ha! I don't think I've evolved quite that far!
Old 22nd November 2009
  #59
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
That very funny. Most of the Amsterdam people agreed with Fox news.
Only fools dont want to see the truth of whats really going on in Amsterdam.

btw, I just read that some hackers break in the university of London.
ClimateGate - Climate center's server hacked revealing documents and emails

It showed that many facts are false about the climate.
Just what the majority of science people try to say all the time.
Its just a new way of making more taxes.
Old 22nd November 2009
  #60
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strobian View Post
Wim you created a global warming debate just trying to save the planet. haha.
I'll start a multiband compression thread on monday .. then we'll return to normal business ... heh

I like the debate on the global warming .... no need for me to convince anyone ... we are all old enough to have some form of opinion, and I guess you have your mind made up for your future ... let's hold our breath and see what happens ...

it's good to see how there are different responses .. nice to get some more background on members, it paints the picture ...

no harm in going solar, and IMHO it's not only our planet , we share it with all kinds off live .... it's just that I look for/ and need some kind off harmony/balance within myself ... to make some sense out off this crazy life ...
going carbon neutral is just one way to get a bit closer to it for me ....
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