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Brian Gardner and widening? Equalisers (HW)
Old 16th November 2009
  #1
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Brian Gardner and widening?

I mastered a track the other day and was told that the same track also went to two other mastering engineers, at the same time!

The client had sent the track to Brian Gardner (Bernie Grundman's), Andy "Hippy" Baldwin (Metropolis) and me.

I cut my version and when the client came to collect it he gave me a disc containing the other two masters and wouldn't tell me who cut what!

He said I have to guess and email him ASAP to see if I got it right.
I picked out Brians version pretty quick because I am a big fan of his work.

Just for fun, I was looking at all three cuts on the phase meter.
There is a hang on the floor tom, right at the end of the track and Brians cut got a perfect halo in the phase meter.
Mine got an oval halo and Hippy's got a kinda wobbly line.

My point is, it's a total mystery to me what exactly Brian uses to widen stuff?

He really has a unique style, for sure!

The client likes all three cuts and still cannot decide who to take the rest of the album to!
Old 16th November 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
My point is, it's a total mystery to me what exactly Brian uses to widen stuff?
TAPE ??????

nice to have those tracks to compare .....

I just had a client who brought me NY based MGMT mastered by Greg Calbi as a reference ... ooouch that was hard to match ...
a nice fat BB-buget production, against a ITB mix, .. I felt like a looser - long-time ....
Old 17th November 2009
  #3
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The mix came in as a 44.1/24 Wave so I don't think the unique widening was from using tape.

Andy's master didn't seem like it had been widened at all.

Mine was widened just a little on my DAC.

Brian's was the widest but didn't suffer from the usual widening artifacts in any way!

It was a very cool thing to have those tracks to compare, after they were cut!

Volume was pretty close between mine and Brian's.
Andy's was a little lower, around a 1db.
Old 17th November 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
The mix came in as a 44.1/24 Wave so I don't think the unique widening was from using tape.

Andy's master didn't seem like it had been widened at all.

Mine was widened just a little on my DAC.

Brian's was the widest but didn't suffer from the usual widening artifacts in any way!

It was a very cool thing to have those tracks to compare, after they were cut!

Volume was pretty close between mine and Brian's.
Andy's was a little lower, around a 1db.
I think he used to have the Bedini BASE thing.

Bandini?



DC
Old 17th November 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
I think he used to have the Bedini BASE thing.

Bandini?



DC
BEDINI ELECTRONICS, INC..
Old 17th November 2009
  #6
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B.A.S.E. Processor $6000.00 US + $39.47 shipping

Bit pricier than the old BEHRINGER: EX1
Old 17th November 2009
  #7
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Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
B.A.S.E. Processor $6000.00 US + $39.47 shipping

Bit pricier than the old BEHRINGER: EX1
I've seen them on the used market once in a while for around $1200 (and sometimes less).

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 17th November 2009
  #8
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I haven't heard A/B samples yet, but it looks to me like another "magic wand" for stereo enhancement. I wonder if that B.A.S.E processor's proprietary technology is still a "trade secret".
Old 17th November 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
B.A.S.E. Processor $6000.00 US + $39.47 shipping

Bit pricier than the old BEHRINGER: EX1

Anyone compare the two?


I know that the behringer could use a new psu and some better components down the audio path.
Old 17th November 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
I think he used to have the Bedini BASE thing.

Bandini?



DC
Come on Dave... this is serious stuff!
Old 17th November 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GYMusic View Post
Come on Dave... this is serious stuff!
You're quite right. Don't want to get banned here for making jokes:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Bedini.pdf (125.1 KB, 760 views)
Old 17th November 2009
  #12
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obviously, you've never streached a tape!
Old 17th November 2009
  #13
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Ask him?

- c
Old 17th November 2009
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
You're quite right. Don't want to get banned here for making jokes:
How could Mr. Big Bass ever dare to put precious audio through such lowly IC's as the 5532!?!


Back to being "serious" - it seems to me that the BASE is an adjustable M/S matrix which also allows you to mix in polarity inverted signal from one channel to another (similar to what the SPL SX2's "Stereo Width" control does). Or am I interpreting this wrong?

edit - what's up with the TDA3810's "pseudo-stereo" effect? - http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...ps/TDA3810.pdf Is this just shuffling different frequencies left and right?

Any other boxes that have the TDA3810 in them? Looking at the specs don't know how clean things would ever sound through it but guess you would blend this in parallel?

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 17th November 2009
  #15
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we have two bedini base boxes here
they are not an straight m/s matrix - in any way really and despite the pdf dc has posted , that is not what is in the boxes , they are all discrete inside
not a ic in sight
they sound quite magical when its the right thing .
useless when they are not

the beringer sounds nothing like it . ( i have checked )

the bendinis needed serious in house mods though , as they always had clipping issues .
i have had one in my rack for about twenty years .

bernie grundman mastering were listed as users when i bought my first one way back when .

compared to say "k sound" the bendini is quite amazing .
that said its pretty easy to make the bendini sound suck as well
Old 17th November 2009
  #16
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i am using the bedini today infact
Attached Thumbnails
Brian Gardner and widening?-bendini.jpg  
Old 17th November 2009
  #17
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Originally Posted by turtlerock View Post
i am using the bendini today infact
Hey Rick,

You may want to remove it from the top of that fridge.
Old 17th November 2009
  #18
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nah its a microwave
Old 17th November 2009
  #19
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fyi steve - and really not trying make this a bendini thread , because there is no actual evidence here that brian even used one on the track in question

but the bedini is extremely clean ( after we modded the input and output gain stages ) and it is tonally super straight as well
i have had some of the brightest guys i know , look at the patent docs and pull ours apart apart with the mission to make me another one .
it is the weirdest thing to run tones through
and there are a couple of "secret " potted units inside that defy explaination

so eventually the simpliest way to get another one was to buy another unit !
probably as it should be really
Old 17th November 2009
  #20
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Originally Posted by turtlerock View Post
nah its a microwave
Not for 'baking' tapes i hope ...

Anyway,
Rick, can you tell when & in what way it doesn't sound right?
You mean simply when overdone?
Old 17th November 2009
  #21
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the bedini doesnt have any kind of null as each knob is really interactive and it is kinda nutso when you think you are just adding a bit and the image moves in an unexpected way
but once you get it sorted out is is very powerful

but the main advantage is you have control of the width and of the center image ( which has an insert )
so you can turn a vocal up a couple of db without monoing the image at all ! (or add eq or comp to it )
you can also make the image center move left right with out changing the width .
and when you add width it is TOTALLY mono compatable, which means its not a straight m/s deal

but the catch is if you not subtle with it totally screws the intended mix , and of course that is not what we are getting paid for right ..?

i make my guys promise not to use it on a record for the first two years they work for me
they always break that promise...
Old 17th November 2009
  #22
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the OP reminded me off my 351 card in the anamod giving great sounding "halo's" on kicks .....
nice microwave you have there Rick .. it's running pretty hot ...
Old 17th November 2009
  #23
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you can get those "spread " halos really easily by cutting one side or boosting at 35 hz by a db or three running it into the bedini and then straighting up the center image a touch

( whoops was that my outside voice talking again)
Old 17th November 2009
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock View Post
you can get those "spread " halos really easily by cutting one side or boosting at 35 hz by a db or three running it into the bendini and then straighting up the center image a touch

( whoops was that my outside voice talking again)
sounds like you're having fun ... it's late down-under ??? does it give any booty to a track ....
Old 17th November 2009
  #25
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its all booty , i m doing a million track hip hop record today
i have been checking the masters for the run of posts
Old 17th November 2009
  #26
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its all booty , i m doing a million track hip hop record today
that's a lot off tracks :-) Jay-Z was on Jools Holland - BBC in one off the last weeks shows ... amazing performace off three tracks with his great band .... 99 problems kicked in very cool ....
I just love that distortion, ripping my B&W's apart when played loud ...
Old 17th November 2009
  #27
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And then there is this;

The ADT W731

No modifications needed...
Old 17th November 2009
  #28
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bedini base
stands for BEDINI . AUDIO . SPACIAL. ENVIRONMENT

i think the ADT BASE stands for stereo base .. :0
Old 17th November 2009
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock View Post
bedini base
stands for BEDINI . AUDIO . SPACIAL. ENVIRONMENT

i think the ADT BASE stands for stereo base .. :0
Yes, that's what it means, (the ADT base that is) but that is not the point, the point is that you can use it to effectively narrow or widen the stereo field, from mono to 300%. You control the base frequency (the frequency where the widening effect starts, the crosstalk (from 0-15 db) etc.
Old 17th November 2009
  #30
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Originally Posted by turtlerock View Post
bedini base
stands for BEDINI . AUDIO . SPACIAL. ENVIRONMENT

i think the ADT BASE stands for stereo base .. :0
Oh boy!

If that machine is what he's using to get that width, without the loss of focus, I'm gonna have to get me one of those!

If I find one?
Can you send me the input and output mods?

Cheers
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