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Brian Gardner and widening? Equalisers (HW)
Old 17th December 2009
  #121
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Table Of Tone's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemeek View Post
i want bedini reports

soundfiles would be rrrrrreat!!
OK!
I love my Bedini!
It's real "Pretty" sounding.
I'm running my rig completely non-balanced now and have been very busy with the soldering iron!

Give me a chance to get good with it first.
Then I'll throw some stuff up!
Old 30th December 2009
  #122
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we are curious...

how´s it going?
Old 31st December 2009
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joemeek View Post
we are curious...

how´s it going?
It's going pretty good!
I've found that I can set the bedini to pretty much the standard wideness of the mix in question, but at the same time, still adding dimension and that missing "I'm a record, not a demo" thing.

It seems to be making itself at home just fine in my almost completely non-balanced rig.

Had nothing but "how did you get my mix to sound so good?" from clients.
Old 31st December 2009
  #124
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So do you think it represents an aspect of Brian's sound then? Or is it just another flavour in your arsenal of tools?

The King
Old 31st December 2009
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Bowden View Post
So do you think it represents an aspect of Brian's sound then? Or is it just another flavour in your arsenal of tools?

The King
That's a good way of putting it!
It's getting me the dimension I was looking for, even when running it at aprox the standard width of the source mix.
Old 5th January 2010
  #126
Old 13th May 2010
  #127
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I think the question is what is Brian goal by mastering ? What he is trying to do ?
Old 13th May 2010
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale1 View Post
I think the question is what is Brian goal by mastering ? What he is trying to do ?
Make it sound good? I thought we already knew that.
Old 13th May 2010
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Graffam View Post
Make it sound good? I thought we already knew that.
No, no! That would be too easy. He must have a hidden agenda heh
Old 13th May 2010
  #130
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Strange how I missed this thread back in december, as I'm obviously into stereo spatialising myself. Sadly, I never had the chance to use a Bedini, still curious to test it someday. If any of you Bedini users have before-after samples, those would interest me quite a bit
Old 13th May 2010
  #131
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Are there any tear downs or schematics of the BASE available anywhere?

I'm curious if the effect achieved by the BASE couldn't be replicated with M/S encoding and creative use of bussing and delays.

I would love to hear sound samples because if the "enhancement" of the mid channel is a bit left heavy it's probably doing something very similar to the K-Stereo processor.

Edit: Reading through the patent documents associated with the BASE it looks like I'm on the right track. I was able to achieve what Table Of Tone called a "perfect halo" in a goniometer by bussing a stereo track to two faders. One containing the mid and the other containing the side. I then sent the output of the mid channel to another stereo fader where I applied a short ping pong delay and inverted the phase of one side. Blend four faders to taste. Very nice and subtle widening.
Old 14th May 2010
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trmchenry View Post
two faders. One containing the mid and the other containing the side. I then sent the output of the mid channel to another stereo fader where I applied a short ping pong delay and inverted the phase of one side. Blend four faders to taste. Very nice and subtle widening.
Been wanting to make one digitally for a while now, but have been cranking out a few other ideas first, plus always be stuff on the back burner. The BASE doesn't have any delay outside of phase distortion, which does get compensated for so the frequency response doesn't change.

If you're bored, a before/after sample or 2 perhaps?
Old 14th May 2010
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Graffam View Post
Been wanting to make one digitally for a while now, but have been cranking out a few other ideas first, plus always be stuff on the back burner. The BASE doesn't have any delay outside of phase distortion, which does get compensated for so the frequency response doesn't change.

If you're bored, a before/after sample or 2 perhaps?
I figured it had to have SOME kind of delay in the chain. What other subtle methods are there for making stereo out of mono?

The mid side bussing to two faders is a given when the description reads that you can pan the center channel anywhere in a 3D space. Pan/Volume of mid signal!

From the descriptions it sounds like the unit is all about adding ambience in a particular way. It's really hard to approximate what it's doing when I haven't really handled one of these beasts with my own hands let alone heard any samples. The trick is to also widen without any bad phase issues when you collapse to mono. Again, it looks like if you modified the K-Stereo to only widen the mid channel, leaving the side unaffected other than having a simple volume control, and added a pan control to the dry mid signal you'd have a BASE. The unit was four controls, correct? Mid volume, side volume, mid pan, delay/phase inverted/ambience volume?

PM me a sample of something you'd like to hear processed and I'll put it up.
Old 14th May 2010
  #134
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Bump.

http://www.duneboogie.com/mastering/normal.wav
http://www.duneboogie.com/mastering/wide.wav

I would confidently say certain sources would benefit more from this than others.

Edit: I wanted to mention that this widening effect is cranked to 11 to make it really noticeable.
Old 14th May 2010
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noooway View Post
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
Old 17th May 2010
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trmchenry View Post
Are there any tear downs or schematics of the BASE available anywhere?

I'm curious if the effect achieved by the BASE couldn't be replicated with M/S encoding and creative use of bussing and delays.

I would love to hear sound samples because if the "enhancement" of the mid channel is a bit left heavy it's probably doing something very similar to the K-Stereo processor.

Edit: Reading through the patent documents associated with the BASE it looks like I'm on the right track. I was able to achieve what Table Of Tone called a "perfect halo" in a goniometer by bussing a stereo track to two faders. One containing the mid and the other containing the side. I then sent the output of the mid channel to another stereo fader where I applied a short ping pong delay and inverted the phase of one side. Blend four faders to taste. Very nice and subtle widening.
The insides of the Bedini are all discrete.
There are also four sealed, flat rectangular boxes, each with a sticker saying "Base 1, Base 2, Base 3 and Base 4".

No other M/S hardware or software tool that I've ever tried, sounds anything like the Bedini!
Nothing is as clean!

It's definitely not a normal M/S situation!
Old 17th May 2010
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
The insides of the Bedini are all discrete.
There are also four sealed, flat rectangular boxes, each with a sticker saying "Base 1, Base 2, Base 3 and Base 4".

No other M/S hardware or software tool that I've ever tried, sounds anything like the Bedini!
Nothing is as clean!

It's definitely not a normal M/S situation!
Before-after samples?
Old 17th May 2010
  #138
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you cannot make stereo out of mono with the bedini. it only can widen and "fatten" stereo.
Old 17th May 2010
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
Before-after samples?
He's not going to provide us with samples.
Old 17th May 2010
  #140
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Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cemski View Post
you cannot make stereo out of mono with the bedini. it only can widen and "fatten" stereo.
Bedini disagrees. He's called it "Spatial Mono" and "3D Mono" among other things.

Here... before & after:
http://www.johnbedini.net/john34/five-k.mp3

Done with no delays or echos. From mono. That sample was from some of his earlier experiments with re-creating it digitally and doesn't have the frequency response correction, which is why some of the stuff sounds panned a bit left or right.

Here's a tad later example, from mono source...
http://www.johnbedini.net/john34/someone.mp3

And completed digital BASE "unit", stereo source...
before: http://www.johnbedini.net/john34/won1.mp3
after+adjustments: http://www.johnbedini.net/john34/inter.mp3
Old 17th May 2010
  #141
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Plus the patents RE the BASE cite ways of changing mono to stereo incl those involving delays like my example above.
Old 17th May 2010
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trmchenry View Post
Plus the patents RE the BASE cite ways of changing mono to stereo incl those involving delays like my example above.
True, it does, but not as part of the invention. This digital recreation is "not using any digital delay or echo" in his own words.
Old 17th May 2010
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Graffam View Post
True, it does, but not as part of the invention. This digital recreation is "not using any digital delay or echo" in his own words.
I really think that the way he's creating stereo from mono is what makes this piece of gear what it is.
Old 18th May 2010
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Graffam View Post
Bedini disagrees. He's called it "Spatial Mono" and "3D Mono" among other things.
Hello Jesse,
i own a base in mint condition and checked your statements.The BASE does NOT make stereo from mono. I guess the "older" bedini units worked with the "haas effect" by using panned delays as you can hear that ugly echo in your first sample.
I think the BASE only works on the side (as in mid/side) part of the audio signal as there is absolutely no change on the mid signal.
Old 18th May 2010
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cemski View Post
Hello Jesse,
i own a base in mint condition and checked your statements.The BASE does NOT make stereo from mono. I guess the "older" bedini units worked with the "haas effect" by using panned delays as you can hear that ugly echo in your first sample.
I think the BASE only works on the side (as in mid/side) part of the audio signal as there is absolutely no change on the mid signal.
I would agree with that too as there is at least two versions of BASE as mentioned in this topic. The 1st sample does have a sort of flange in the original already, so it's probably not the best example he could have chosen. And the crappy 128 (as opposed to decent 128) mp3 encode worsens it. The page I was getting that info off of was more of a spattering over a few days in FrontPage editor :P than a serious white paper.

He's a busy guy, I wonder if we'll ever see him return to the audio world.
Old 18th May 2010
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trmchenry View Post
He's not going to provide us with samples.
It would be really hard for me to do before and after examples because my Bedini is now hard wired and integrated into my rig.
It's always on!
It also comes in handy for a mix that's been already widened too much or badly.
I can use the Bedini to narrow it, if needed, and bring the centre back into focus.
Old 19th May 2010
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
It would be really hard for me to do before and after examples because my Bedini is now hard wired and integrated into my rig.
It's always on!
It also comes in handy for a mix that's been already widened too much or badly.
I can use the Bedini to narrow it, if needed, and bring the centre back into focus.
suuuuuuuuuuure.

I was hoping to get enough of a rise out of you to get samples posted. Is it working yet?
Old 19th May 2010
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trmchenry View Post
suuuuuuuuuuure.

I was hoping to get enough of a rise out of you to get samples posted. Is it working yet?
I'm really not kidding!

I'd have to put down the "non Bedini" samples through another rig which, of course, would sound very different anyway, so you wouldn't be getting a fair AB test.
Old 19th May 2010
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Table Of Tone View Post
I'm really not kidding!

I'd have to put down the "non Bedini" samples through another rig which, of course, would sound very different anyway, so you wouldn't be getting a fair AB test.
You could always just run some pink-noise through with some different settings. It would give an indication of the operating principles.


DC
Old 19th May 2010
  #150
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i have several bendini base boxes
they operate on a principle called magic

either that or they stay turned off for months on end ..
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