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From Massive Passive to ITB Equalizer Plugins
Old 13th November 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

From Massive Passive to ITB

I'm an happy user of Manley Massive Passive since year 2000 , but I have now switched on ITB as it is cheaper and faster for mostly of my needs. What I love about this unit is of course the sound but also I appreciate user interface with selective frequencies, etc etc. lovely and easy, a pleasure to play with. Anyway I'm searching for some VST plugs that have similar interface philosophy so I'm using waves API and SSL collection. Anyones knows any good VST that could be similar to massive passive interface ( if not sound )? I red a rumor about Eve Anna releasing an emulation soon but will be for UAD that it don't like. so sorry about it.
I love VST emulations of real analog gear; but what I love is not only the sound but the interface that when it is very closed make me really happy.
Opinions are welcome...
regards

Faust
Old 13th November 2009
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kundevelop View Post
I'm an happy user of Manley Massive Passive since year 2000 , but I have now switched on ITB as it is cheaper and faster for mostly of my needs. What I love about this unit is of course the sound but also I appreciate user interface with selective frequencies, etc etc. lovely and easy, a pleasure to play with. Anyway I'm searching for some VST plugs that have similar interface philosophy so I'm using waves API and SSL collection. Anyones knows any good VST that could be similar to massive passive interface ( if not sound )? I red a rumor about Eve Anna releasing an emulation soon but will be for UAD that it don't like. so sorry about it.
I love VST emulations of real analog gear; but what I love is not only the sound but the interface that when it is very closed make me really happy.
Opinions are welcome...
regards
It's not a rumor, UA is working on a emulation.

DC
Old 13th November 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
It's not a rumor, UA is working on a emulation.

DC
And this man has definite "insider's" info!

Dave -
Congrat's on your nuptials btw! Recently got married myself and it's been a really good thing.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 14th November 2009
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kundevelop View Post
I'm an happy user of Manley Massive Passive since year 2000 , but I have now switched on ITB as it is cheaper and faster for mostly of my needs.
the thing that struck me most was the absence of the adjective "better" or "improved".

kind of reminds me of the old adage:

"you can have it fast, cheap, or good; pick two"
Old 14th November 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcollins View Post
It's not a rumor, UA is working on a emulation.

DC
Dave would definately have the inside angle on this question....consider this response extremely accurate! Congragulations Dave on your wedding....thanks for the great mastering job on Hilarys record last month......fun doing a hang.


Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio
Old 14th November 2009
  #6
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Kayo's Avatar
 

UAD’s the only company, that will or may come close to the Manley: Massive Passive compressors, as things stand fro now.
If native concoctions interest you, then try the debateable Antress Modern Plug-inssuite. I thought his MP connotation was a hoot.

Give that a whirl..

KAyo
Old 14th November 2009
  #7
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Jesse Graffam's Avatar
 

If the Antress SynthMaker stuff (i'm trying to be nice here) is the best example of native "emulations" of analog gear you have, then no wonder you think UA are the only guys capable of doing it.
Old 14th November 2009
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron florentine View Post
Dave would definately have the inside angle on this question....consider this response extremely accurate! Congragulations Dave on your wedding....thanks for the great mastering job on Hilarys record last month......fun doing a hang.

Ron Florentine
Soundswest Studio

Thanks Ron!


DC
Old 14th November 2009
  #9
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A nebula emulation will be released very soon!
Old 14th November 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post
A nebula emulation will be released very soon!
never used nebula, just a question:

a nebula emulation will include also original design interface or just trying to sound the same?

I'll try nebula as soon as possible. Please can you update this thread when nebula emulation is ready? just if you have time...

thanks for infos and kind reply from everyones...cheers!

can't get why with nowdays powerful daw we need external sound processor cards like UAD; yes real timing is the point but does it really worth? or it is just a commercial move to copyright and protect plugs software?

-------------------------------------------------------

faust
Old 14th November 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kundevelop View Post
never used nebula, just a question:

a nebula emulation will include also original design interface or just trying to sound the same?

I'll try nebula as soon as possible. Please can you update this thread when nebula emulation is ready? just if you have time...

It will sound closer than anything else I can say that (since its the real unit-nebula is an fx sampler). Other passive eq's are already avalible sold separatly from third part developers. I suggest you take the time and follow, read these links:

this is where you buy sampler: Acusticaudio (20 euro version will work fine, then update if you like its sound), there's a topic about this at their forum. Try demo.

EQ will be released here: analoginthebox.com - Index

Gearslutz thread: Anyone tried Nebula?

I guess first release will only be samples but later on a GUI looking like the unit will be released. Keep in mind nebula will need good ram and cpu power.
Old 14th November 2009
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post
It will sound closer than anything else I can say that (since its the real unit-nebula is an fx sampler). Other passive eq's are already avalible sold separatly from third part developers. I suggest you take the time and follow, read these links:

this is where you buy sampler: Acusticaudio (20 euro version will work fine, then update if you like its sound), there's a topic about this at their forum. Try demo.

EQ will be released here: analoginthebox.com - Index

Gearslutz thread: Anyone tried Nebula?

I guess first release will only be samples but later on a GUI looking like the unit will be released. Keep in mind nebula will need good ram and cpu power.
thanks a lot for infos! I'll try nebula next few days.

regards

faust
Old 15th November 2009
  #13
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Nebula is definitely the answer. Much higher quality EQ emulations than on the UAD and yes, I've compared.. there is no harmonic saturation or any complex interaction on the UAD EQs, except perhaps the 1073. It's just "the curves" which can actually be a good thing but the massive passive definitely has a "sound" of it's own that I have a hard time imagining UAD nailing as precisely as Nebula can. We'll see.

Cheers!
bManic
Old 15th November 2009
  #14
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why not insert the actual Massive Passive across the ITB 2BUS? Just note the settings in the pro tools comments field.


Do this until the UAD emulation comes out.
Old 15th November 2009
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by recall View Post
why not insert the actual Massive Passive across the ITB 2BUS? Just note the settings in the pro tools comments field.


Do this until the UAD emulation comes out.
yes I was thinking about it...but it is not fast and not easy. With plugs I can open an instance of it on as many channels I need ( nearly all )...that is awesome. I will not sell my real Massive Passive because I love it ( it is the first release ) and if one day I will start mastering by myself I will use the real one for sure altought mine is not the mastering edition. PS...any difference between first and second unit release? I can see on manleylabs website that few tubes are different...which one do you prefer?
Old 15th November 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
Nebula is definitely the answer. Much higher quality EQ emulations than on the UAD and yes, I've compared.. there is no harmonic saturation or any complex interaction on the UAD EQs, except perhaps the 1073. It's just "the curves" which can actually be a good thing but the massive passive definitely has a "sound" of it's own that I have a hard time imagining UAD nailing as precisely as Nebula can. We'll see.

Cheers!
bManic

i second that but the word "emulation" misleads the reader, not knowing what nebula is, since it's not an emulation.

nebula is to me a whole different league than emulation "plugins".
so, to be a bit more precise: nebula works with non-static, non-linear convulsion (impulse responses)
samples, so in fact you hear the real thing in a way (including the color, saturation etc)

hope i explained it good..
and i'm looking forward to the massive passive program for nebula
Old 15th November 2009
  #17
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UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by kundevelop View Post
can't get why with nowdays powerful daw we need external sound processor cards like UAD; yes real timing is the point but does it really worth? or it is just a commercial move to copyright and protect plugs software?
That's it. UAD cards are not very powerful at all. It is all about copy protection and nothing else. If anything the cards cause problems for the users.

Alistair
Old 16th November 2009
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

about nebula:

on real massive passive there is a kind of preset to get the maximum THD possible from the unit, is something like low shelf hard boosting and in the same time cutting to restore signal at original value ( MP useres knows for sure ). I wonder if nebula can do it...but as math say +20db -20db = 0 : ) so nothing will happen.
don't really get what a fx sampler is and what limits it has.
I will check nebula soon.
Old 16th November 2009
  #19
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miro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kundevelop View Post
about nebula:

on real massive passive there is a kind of preset to get the maximum THD possible from the unit, is something like low shelf hard boosting and in the same time cutting to restore signal at original value ( MP useres knows for sure ). I wonder if nebula can do it...but as math say +20db -20db = 0 : ) so nothing will happen.
don't really get what a fx sampler is and what limits it has.
I will check nebula soon.
unfortunately i never had the pleasure to work with a real MP.
i don't know how detailed the nebula program will capture each section of MP.
what you talk about is something like with a pultec (+- EQ values)?

as far as i know, nebula is capable to recreate this, depending on the "program" you select
(there's mostly different programs for a hardware unit, that you can load inside nebula - each one focusing on certain
parts of the harware unit, so the boost/cut function could be implemented together in one combined "program")

as far as i'm concerned, these functions already exist with other EQ's.
i believe in some programs they even expanded the functions to the original hardware with new combinations.
in other words: things are possible that are not possible with the original hardware, which is really awesome!
Old 16th November 2009
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
That's it. UAD cards are not very powerful at all. It is all about copy protection and nothing else. If anything the cards cause problems for the users.

Alistair
This is not true. You STILL get more dedicated power from a DSP chip - even on old UAD - than any modern time spliced CPU. A DSP chip on a card is ONLY doing the plug in instantiated to it. It's the same reason why a Bricasti M7 cannot be put ITB native. Single pass power.
Old 16th November 2009
  #21
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zaphod's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kundevelop View Post
about nebula:

on real massive passive there is a kind of preset to get the maximum THD possible from the unit, is something like low shelf hard boosting and in the same time cutting to restore signal at original value ( MP useres knows for sure ). I wonder if nebula can do it...but as math say +20db -20db = 0 : ) so nothing will happen.
don't really get what a fx sampler is and what limits it has.
I will check nebula soon.
yes, it will work
Old 16th November 2009
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
This is not true. You STILL get more dedicated power from a DSP chip - even on old UAD - than any modern time spliced CPU. A DSP chip on a card is ONLY doing the plug in instantiated to it.
People keep repeating the same old marketing argument but it is simply not true. When you run a modern DAW, all the audio DSP calculations are handled by the floating-point unit of your processor (with the exception of less than 1% of plugins that use int calculations). That part of your CPU isn't doing anything else and certainly no OS related tasks. So lets look at some real numbers:

UAD-1 MPACT2 DSP 500 MFLOPS
UAD-2 SHARC DSP 1.5 GFLOPS
Intel Core i7 76 GFLOPS
Dual Xeon 5500 150+ GFLOPS

UAD cards are dongles and marketing tools.

Quote:
It's the same reason why a Bricasti M7 cannot be put ITB native.
No, that is the reason why you need 6 dual-core DSP chips to run one reverb. The AD chips used in the Bricasti deliver 3.6 GFLOPS each. So you get a total of 21.6 GFLOPS. Still much less than a modern CPU.

Alistair
Old 16th November 2009
  #23
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
People keep repeating the same old marketing argument but it is simply not true. When you run a modern DAW, all the audio DSP calculations are handled by the floating-point unit of your processor (with the exception of less than 1% of plugins that use int calculations). That part of your CPU isn't doing anything else and certainly no OS related tasks. So lets look at some real numbers:

UAD-1 MPACT2 DSP 500 MFLOPS
UAD-2 SHARC DSP 1.5 GFLOPS
Intel Core i7 76 GFLOPS
Dual Xeon 5500 150+ GFLOPS

UAD cards are dongles and marketing tools.



No, that is the reason why you need 6 dual-core DSP chips to run one reverb. The AD chips used in the Bricasti deliver 3.6 GFLOPS each. So you get a total of 21.6 GFLOPS. Still much less than a modern CPU.

Alistair
yeah - and the graphics position calculations and mouse pointer are all handled by the FP processor. Rendering obviously isn't....

You DO get more out of less with a DSP card.... not just a musician here.... was a research mathematician with a funded PhD from Silicon Graphics many years ago!! UAD card are not just dongles... and FP chips dont sit doing nothing in any modern OS. You've got a whole load of shenianigans with allocation bottle necks. A DSP card with a tenth of the power of a CPU and math co processor will still out perform a general purpose system. I've seen this time and time again and it's one of the very reasons DSPs systems are oft pursued - although I'll grant you the "dongle" too...
Old 16th November 2009
  #24
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If you want a really good sounding EQ with nice options you should check out the fabfilter pro-Q EQ, it is officialy released today and i can say (beta tester) that it is really nice! I think this EQ is going to replace my psp neon in my digital chain.
FabFilter Software Instruments - Audio effect and synthesizer plugins AU VST RTAS
Old 16th November 2009
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
If you want a really good sounding EQ with nice options you should check out the fabfilter pro-Q EQ, it is officialy released today and i can say (beta tester) that it is really nice! I think this EQ is going to replace my psp neon in my digital chain.
FabFilter Software Instruments - Audio effect and synthesizer plugins AU VST RTAS

nice....ok, now back to massive passive....
Old 16th November 2009
  #26
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
If you want a really good sounding EQ with nice options you should check out the fabfilter pro-Q EQ, it is officialy released today and i can say (beta tester) that it is really nice! I think this EQ is going to replace my psp neon in my digital chain.
FabFilter Software Instruments - Audio effect and synthesizer plugins AU VST RTAS
Oh great. If Fabfilter ever design a DAW it will be the slickest looking DAW on the planet.

Alistair
Old 16th November 2009
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
If you want a really good sounding EQ with nice options you should check out the fabfilter pro-Q EQ, it is officialy released today and i can say (beta tester) that it is really nice! I think this EQ is going to replace my psp neon in my digital chain.
FabFilter Software Instruments - Audio effect and synthesizer plugins AU VST RTAS
I tryed it today, besides the eye candy GUI (which I don't care much about) its very usable for mastering too. But I really don't need another LP eq...

Passive eq design as plug-in doesn't have many examples and I have high hopes about the upcoming nebula emulation.
Old 16th November 2009
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post
I tryed it today, besides the eye candy GUI (which I don't care much about) its very usable for mastering too. But I really don't need another LP eq...

Passive eq design as plug-in doesn't have many examples and I have high hopes about the upcoming nebula emulation.
It's not just a LP eq, you can also switch that of if you like.
Old 16th November 2009
  #29
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Yeah I noticed but I'd go apeq instead for that...

The only thing about this eq that actually got me was selecting 2 or more bands and ab'ing them at different gains on selected frequencys-its sort of a nice way to decide like if you want the master brighter or bigger and hearing the differences with a slight move of the mouse.

I wouldn't say anything bad to someone who buys it, obviously its a good eq but I'm pretty sure many people are debating if they actually need it . Since today you can get very good eq's for free, cheap or donationware (and its not cheap, at least for me).
Old 16th November 2009
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
yeah - and the graphics position calculations and mouse pointer are all handled by the FP processor. Rendering obviously isn't....
Those are integer coordinates. Even IF this was handled by the FP unit, that would be what... 10 kHz to 16.7 kHz * 1 word = < 0.00001593 GIPS. It is actually less than a quarter of that due to how the mouse protocol works but anyway...

Quote:
You DO get more out of less with a DSP card...
Sure you do but not 140 times more as you imply. Oh did I mention that Modern CPUs not only have higher speeds but also wider bandwidth than those MPACT2 and TigerSHARC DSP chips? So it is closer to 500 times more. (128 bit vs 32/40 bit instructions/operations).

Quote:
. not just a musician here.... was a research mathematician with a funded PhD from Silicon Graphics many years ago!! UAD card are not just dongles... and FP chips dont sit doing nothing in any modern OS. You've got a whole load of shenianigans with allocation bottle necks. A DSP card with a tenth of the power of a CPU and math co processor will still out perform a general purpose system. I've seen this time and time again and it's one of the very reasons DSPs systems are oft pursued - although I'll grant you the "dongle" too...
Things have moved on quite a bit since then. Actually, SGI could not keep up with Intel and AMD (Or Sun or IBM etc) and went bankrupt. Don't wave around your credentials. You are not the only one here with a background outside of music. Please present some solid arguments that support UAD's marketing.

Alistair
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