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Online Mastering ??!! Dynamics Plugins
Old 12th November 2009
  #1
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Online Mastering ??!!

Hi everyone


can I have your opinions regards online mastering in dance music ???

I make a tekki track which sounds average I apply a litlle bit compression and eq but nothing major. - quiet rough version

should I " pre - prepare " my track in some way ( except indications which I can find on mastering online websides) or they will make sounds track right due professional approach ?

For example if I have some Boooming on the kick , should i get rid of this ?? , or it wil be gone after professional mastering ??

please advise !!!!

THANKS :mrgreen:
Old 13th November 2009
  #2
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Riccardo's Avatar
 

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All the problems you are aware of in the mix (before sending it in for mastering)

One of the tasks of the mastering engineer is to spot problems you may have missed due to different factors. If you know your track/mix has issues sort them out before sending the mix out.
Old 13th November 2009
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastiansek View Post
Hi everyone


can I have your opinions regards online mastering in dance music ???

.......

please advise !!!!
My advice: my company is definitely by far the best mastering studio in the entire world, so go there immediately.

Old 13th November 2009
  #4
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Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastiansek View Post
For example if I have some Boooming on the kick , should i get rid of this ?? , or it wil be gone after professional mastering ??
The better your mix sounds, the better the mastering will be.

A booming kick could be a case of too much resonance, in which case you cut with a medium to narrow Q in the mix at the offending frequency, i.e. 50 Hz.

If you are the producer too, then address the problem in the production, not the mix. Perhaps the kick drum is too long: shorten the kick drum by making the MIDI note or copied audio region shorter. Make sure you have a small fade or add a small release envelope on the kick in the sampler so it doesn't click or stop abruptly.

Long kick drums with lots of sub frequencies will kill your punch. It can also affect the rest of the mix/mastering, usually resulting in pumping and less potential for loudness.

Don't slam your mix with a multiband compressor and a limiter to make it louder. That part will be taken care of in the mastering, too.


Try reading this PDF
http://www.onlinemastering.dk/pdf/mi...ering-tips.pdf
Old 13th November 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
The better your mix sounds, the better the mastering will be.

Try reading this PDF
http://www.onlinemastering.dk/pdf/mi...ering-tips.pdf
Good doc to read!!!
Old 13th November 2009
  #6
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Thank you!
Old 14th November 2009
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
The better your mix sounds, the better the mastering will be.
Yep, people just don't understand that. And as an extension to this, most people also don't understand that most of "the sound" is compositional; IE not mix gained in the mix, but through actual composition. It's ludicrusly obvious but people are quick to blame the ME for a sh*t song.

However:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
A booming kick could be a case of too much resonance, in which case you cut with a medium to narrow Q in the mix at the offending frequency, i.e. 50 Hz.

If you are the producer too, then address the problem in the production, not the mix. Perhaps the kick drum is too long: shorten the kick drum by making the MIDI note or copied audio region shorter. Make sure you have a small fade or add a small release envelope on the kick in the sampler so it doesn't click or stop abruptly.

Long kick drums with lots of sub frequencies will kill your punch. It can also affect the rest of the mix/mastering, usually resulting in pumping and less potential for loudness.
IMHO with all due respect this is total bull, especially in electronic music. I work with a ton of house and techno and half the time I have to induce resonance to create a slightly longer kick sustain because the kick sounds too short! Kicks in electronic music is a whole art form unto itself!

For example, techno much of the time would sound rubbish with a short kick - what do you think an 808 kick sounds like?

However, yes, in braindance or breakcore you probably might want a much shorter kick. But this should have nothing to do with the end result unless you are trying to slam it to the wall.

JMHO

Old 14th November 2009
  #8
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Originally Posted by JALFK View Post
IMHO with all due respect this is total bull, especially in electronic music.
I don't think "respect" and "bull" goes well in the same sentence.

I have an extensive knowledge of electronic dance music producing five #1 hits on the official dancecharts, including million selling tracks.

The advice I gave the original poster above is spot on while I'd be worried if someone "half of the time induces resonance to make a longer kick". Perhaps it's the read cloth you wear over your head - it could be blocking your ears. ;-)

Seriously, the definition of what constitutes a long kick is subjective to some extent. But a kick with a long boomy tail can cause trouble in a dance mix since it could interfere with the bass line or it can make the whole mix less tight.
Old 14th November 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastiansek View Post
Hi everyone
For example if I have some Boooming on the kick , should i get rid of this ?? , or it wil be gone after professional mastering ??
THANKS :mrgreen:
Get the mix as good as you possibly can without doing anything purely for loudness (don't use a limiter on the master-bus), and make sure it sounds close to the final sound (but quieter) you want. Problems like a boomy kick should be fixed in the mix as trying to address it at the mastering stage will be a compromise as it will affect the rest of the mix.
Old 14th November 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JALFK View Post
Yep, people just don't understand that. And as an extension to this, most people also don't understand that most of "the sound" is compositional; IE not mix gained in the mix, but through actual composition. It's ludicrusly obvious but people are quick to blame the ME for a sh*t song.

However:



IMHO with all due respect this is total bull, especially in electronic music. I work with a ton of house and techno and half the time I have to induce resonance to create a slightly longer kick sustain because the kick sounds too short! Kicks in electronic music is a whole art form unto itself!

For example, techno much of the time would sound rubbish with a short kick - what do you think an 808 kick sounds like?

However, yes, in braindance or breakcore you probably might want a much shorter kick. But this should have nothing to do with the end result unless you are trying to slam it to the wall.

JMHO


it totally depends on the type of techno/electronic track you get. in the 90's deep long basslines were barely used. not today...sub-basses with strong resonance are much more heard today...and a long 808-ish kick would definitely fight that in a battle of mud. so it's a matter of "if there's free room" for a long boomy kick, and what will fill out the boomy low end..


i'm no me...but don't need to for my 2 ¢

Old 14th November 2009
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miro View Post
so it's a matter of "if there's free room" for a long boomy kick, and what will fill out the boomy low end..
Exactly. Nothing wrong with a long boomy kick if it fits the production and there's actually room for it.
Old 14th November 2009
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
I don't think "respect" and "bull" goes well in the same sentence.
I respect you and your views generally. But I believe this one in particular is bad advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
I have an extensive knowledge of electronic dance music producing five #1 hits on the official dancecharts, including million selling tracks.
thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
The advice I gave the original poster above is spot on while I'd be worried if someone "half of the time induces resonance to make a longer kick". Perhaps it's the read cloth you wear over your head - it could be blocking your ears. ;-)

Seriously, the definition of what constitutes a long kick is subjective to some extent. But a kick with a long boomy tail can cause trouble in a dance mix since it could interfere with the bass line or it can make the whole mix less tight.
"Dance music" is so vague, the OP is vague - hence my initial stupid reply. There are sooooo many genres within that. As I said, in certain genres you would want a tight kick, in other genres you wouldn't.

Are you guys seriously saying that techno no longer features 808s?

Are you guys seriously saying that ALL house and techno tracks should have short kicks? Have you ever been to a techno club? Have you ever gone and seen your customers DJ and actually hear your master translate in it's target playback system for the target audience??!

If the answer is "yes", then I am amazed at your "all kicks should be short, and any ME who makes them longer must be wrong" attitude.

PS That's not a red cloth it's my hair. PPS my hair is brown not ginger, the pic was taken on a mobile phone so there's strange colouration. PPPS discussion is healthy and I'm not launching into a personal attack, as I say, I respect you - I just don't agree with this particular view you have.

Old 14th November 2009
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JALFK View Post
I respect you and your views generally. But I believe this one in particular is bad advice.
His advice is spot on.

Quote:
"Dance music" is so vague, the OP is vague - hence my initial stupid reply. There are sooooo many genres within that. As I said, in certain genres you would want a tight kick, in other genres you wouldn't.
Nope. It sounds better 99% of the time when the kick is tighter.

Quote:
Are you guys seriously saying that techno no longer features 808s?
I haven't heard a track with a straight 808 in... except in hip-hop, but anyway, 808's can be short too.

Quote:
Are you guys seriously saying that ALL house and techno tracks should have short kicks?
If you want the track to sound as though it was made this millennium, then yes.

Quote:
Have you ever been to a techno club? Have you ever gone and seen your customers DJ and actually hear your master translate in it's target playback system for the target audience??!
Heh. DJ'ed on 4 continents including my own productions. I have a pretty good idea what works.

Quote:
If the answer is "yes", then I am amazed at your "all kicks should be short, and any ME who makes them longer must be wrong" attitude.
An ME making a kick longer is most certainly wrong!

Alistair
Old 14th November 2009
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
His advice is spot on.



Nope. It sounds better 99% of the time when the kick is tighter.



I haven't heard a track with a straight 808 in... except in hip-hop, but anyway, 808's can be short too.



If you want the track to sound as though it was made this millennium, then yes.



Heh. DJ'ed on 4 continents including my own productions. I have a pretty good idea what works.



An ME making a kick longer is most certainly wrong!

Alistair
tutt We are clearly not talking about the same music. Do you consider someone like Chris Liebing makes techno?
Old 14th November 2009
  #15
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Have you heard of Joel Mull? Does he make music that people dance to?
Old 14th November 2009
  #16
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Let me just elaborate, if you don't think 808s (original or manipulated) are used anymore in techno or other genres of electronic dancefloor music - and you think all kicks must be short, whether they have a natural decay or not (as no subtle release time may be applied im mastering as you say) - whether or not kicks may be a composite of multiple elements - then.............

you are definitely out of touch and I do not wish to continue this ludicrous debate.
Old 14th November 2009
  #17
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again: it depends on "which type" of techno you're doing!
some have deep and covering basslines (as i often have) and a short, snappy but still thumpy kick will fit in that case perfectly.
(think of the typical sidechaining bassline vs kickdrum...works best with short kicks!)
the "traditional", let's call it 90's, techno of course coveres all the low end with the kick.
and i am VERY familiar with chris liebing type of techno.
i've released 100's of tracks myself...and let me tell you the other side of what you are saying:

a friend of mine, tim xavier (manmade mastering) even once told me: dude, why don't certain people just make their drums shorter??
(refering to the ones USING low basslines) he cuts vinyl aswell since years and is very experienced with these types of tasks.
(he masters techno only since years for some of the biggest labels around)
the mastering will be surely more transparent and still blasting as hell!

it depends what kick you tend to use. oh and by the way:
i love the 808 kick drum, aswell as the 909...classics! but for tracks above 125BPM...superlong decay is a NO GO! for me at least (the intensive bassline user!)

Old 14th November 2009
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miro View Post
again: it depends on "which type" of techno you're doing!
some have deep and covering basslines (as i often have) and a short, snappy but still thumpy kick will fit in that case perfectly. the "traditional"
techno of course coveres all the low end with the kick.
and i am VERY familiar with chris liebing type of techno.
i've released 100's of tracks myself...and let me tell you the other side of what you are saying:

a friend of mine, tim xavier (manmade mastering) even once told me: dude, why don't certain people just make their drums shorter??(refering to the ones USING low basslines) he cuts vinyl aswell since years and is very experienced with these types of tasks. the mastering will be surely more transparent and still blasting as hell!

it depends what kick you tend to use. oh and by the way: i love the 808 kick drum, aswell as the 909...classics! but for tracks above 125BPM...superlong decay is a NO GO!

My previous posts wern't exactly aim at you, miro. I'm glad you agree that different genres have different kick qualities. This is in fact what I way saying. I am not implying that ALL kicks must be either long or short. It's normally obvious which suits the track. I was initially making the point that sometimes the kick is too "truncated" sounding and I induce a very small resonance to give a subtle "release". So I'm not arguing with you miro.

I know Tim too - being as he is also a producer, everyone has their own preference, as do I.
Old 14th November 2009
  #19
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It would be great to hear a list of short clips as examples of the discussion & to define the genre as well. This would be a great benift for some...like me.

Ed
Old 14th November 2009
  #20
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example1: (since he was mentioned) chris liebing
he has a fat kickdrum and it's well produced stuff+good mastering!

Chris Liebing on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

example 2: (since i started getting into this talk) myself
shorter but still strong kick..i'd say but with more low content besides kickdrum! (esp. track 1 and 3)

Miro Pajic on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos


sorry...only quickly myspace crap stuff...but can't look up stuff now...
Old 14th November 2009
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
The better your mix sounds, the better the mastering will be.
exactly that. Also prepare notes for the mastering engineer as to what you want to achieve..
Old 9th December 2009
  #22
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on line mastering

I have an in-between solution for you, if you are uncertain in the ballance of your mix. Send a massage if you are interested.

Cheers,
studiozr
Old 9th December 2009
  #23
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Send a massage if you are interested.
Neck or back?


Regards
Patrik
Old 10th December 2009
  #24
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Originally Posted by studiozr View Post
I have an in-between solution for you, if you are uncertain in the ballance of your mix. Send a massage if you are interested.

Cheers,
studiozr
Tantric massage is the best!
Old 10th December 2009
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrikT View Post
Neck or back?


Regards
Patrik
Of course neck! It's so fine after the long hours of work in the studio
Old 15th December 2009
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastiansek View Post
For example if I have some Boooming on the kick , should i get rid of this ?? , or it wil be gone after professional mastering ??
Booming on kick can be caused by too long sustain, also the kickdrum can be tuned in a wrong way. Mastering engineer can fix some frequencies, but not the sustain and also low frequencies equalization probably will affect the bassline. Making a proper mix is really a better idea.
Old 15th December 2009
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yareck View Post
Booming on kick can be caused by too long sustain, also the kickdrum can be tuned in a wrong way. Mastering engineer can fix some frequencies, but not the sustain and also low frequencies equalization probably will affect the bassline. Making a proper mix is really a better idea.
I agree. Much better to correct it during mixing.
Old 9th September 2014
  #28
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You know, I'm going to assume they probably finished their project some time back in late 2009 or early 2010...
Old 9th September 2014
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
The better your mix sounds, the better the mastering will be.

Try reading this PDF
http://www.onlinemastering.dk/pdf/mi...ering-tips.pdf
This is really good info Lagerfeldt, I've shared this with several of my friends who mix, I think it will help them. Great info!

P.S. The only kick back I got was a mix engineer that didn't like the idea of getting rid of his mix buss processing as he mixes a lot of rock and used nice hardware. He got it though when I told him you master a lot of electronic.
Old 14th September 2014
  #30
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Mixing with a bit of overall compression or similar doesn't have to be bad, rock or electronic music, hardware or software. It's matter of preference. I often recommend making two bounces, one with and one without the processing.

However, slapping on mix bus processing after the mix is done is almost always a bad idea.
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