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Albums with no mastering at all?
Old 22nd September 2005
  #31
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey
If you have ever tracked amazing music at a high level, mixed amazing music at a high level and mastered amazing music at a high level, the necessity of each step toward the final goal is crystal clear. I hope everyone can have that experience someday, as music itself is the best educator.
Yup.

Sometimes mastering is a salvage job, and in rare cases no further processing is added to a mix. But the other 95% of the time a mix needs subtle tweaks to sound it's best. Maybe it'll get 2dB added on top and 1dB of mids taken out of the sides...even though it's a tiny amount of EQ it can yeild a pretty dramtic change.

One of the great things about mastering is that it takes a collection of mixes, all of them varying by degrees in tone and level...and transforms them into a coheasive record.
Old 22nd September 2005
  #32
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy79
I was listening to some music this morning and duality from slipknot came on. My question is, was this song mastered? Its the worst sounding garbage I've ever heard. I actually love the song and listened to it when it first came out, which coincided with the begining of my recording career. Now that I have time under my belt I'm starting to pick apart songs more and I'd swear a mastering engineer didn't touch this song. Its the muddiest most obnoxious song I've ever heard, hell half the metal bands I have in here I can make sound better. Do you guys think this song was mastered and if so do you think the mastering engineer wants anything to do with getting credit for it.

Ted Jensen - ME, Sterling Sound

Rick Rubin - Producer



Again, the volume wars have given mastering a bad name in many ways.
Old 22nd September 2005
  #33
Gear Guru
No Mastering

'No Frontiers' by Mary Black
'Holly Wood' by The Voice Squad.

Interestingly- the Mary Black album was widely used by the Hi Fi world to demo speakers etc. Mission Electronics put out 10,000 free CDs using tracks from it.
A Voice Squad track was used by Hugh Robjohns of Sound On Sound in his article on compiling a Test CD.

DD
Old 11th October 2005
  #34
Lives for gear
 
madtheory's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan
'No Frontiers' by Mary Black
Told ya

noodle- I notice you're disagreeing with Bob O... you don't appear to have understood what he meant... bear in mind this man's depth of knowledge and experience...
Old 11th October 2005
  #35
Lives for gear
 
robot gigante's Avatar
As far as I'm concerned, I mix so that hopefully the mastering engineer won't have to touch anything. But having someone with a great set of ears go over the album gives me and my clients peace of mind that I think is worth paying for... and I do a lot of mastering work as well (about 50/50 mixing and mastering). I suppose that some people might have the confidence and ego to bypass the mastering stage (thus there might be a few 'unmastered' albums out there) but I don't, and I think I do a decent job with my mixes.

The 'fix it in the mastering' mentality really gets me too btw.
Old 17th November 2005
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

Anyone else want to share his/her point of view and experience on the matter? Thank you in advance!
Old 17th November 2005
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound
At TapeOpCon Dave Fridman said that any of his productions that say "Mastered by Dave Fridman" means that there was no mastering. They just assembled the mixes as is. So the Soft Bulletin by the Flaming Lips can start you list.
I heard that same quote, but the way I remember it is "bascially no mastering."

I dont think that everything he's mixed and mastered has been mixed and then left 100% untouched. Especially after hearing him talk about some loundness mastering two years ago.
Old 17th November 2005
  #38
Lives for Jesus
 
stevep's Avatar
Quote:
Jay Kahrs One of the great things about mastering is that it takes a collection of mixes, all of them varying by degrees in tone and level...and transforms them into a coheasive record.
BANG !! Thats it
Old 17th November 2005
  #39
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevep
BANG !! Thats it
Not to mention the fact that every little bit helps, and if you're not going all the way it short changes the record.


On a song level, there is no mix that cant be helped. To 'mix a master' we're asking ourselves to make too many decisions at mixing. Breaking up the process into intelligent stages has worked for decades for a reason.
Old 17th November 2005
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Oh, by the way, if I remmember correctly, Einstürzende Neubauten don't master their albums. I don't have a cd with me to check, so please correct me if I am wrong.
Old 17th November 2005
  #41
Lives for gear
 
GYMusic's Avatar
Let's not forget that we've (they've) taken the term "mastering" from the days of cutting acetates. Some may be too young to realize that.
Old 17th November 2005
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
I've had one or two songs that I did in C Sound or other electronic only environments that I didn't apply any compression or eq to and they sound perfect to me. I have put them on my demos and no one has complained about volume or anything else.

But in general you have to have an amazing engineer (like George Massenburg) to mixing that doesn't need much mastering, if any. When I've been to forums with George speaking he's mentioned that some of this mixes need nothing if very little done to them.
Old 17th November 2005
  #43
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon
he's mentioned that some of this mixes need nothing if very little done to them.
Sorry to have to say this again, but:

Subtlety on great mixes is a big part of the norm. That's why mixers stop short of saying "this needs no mastering". The excellent work of Dave Fridman, George Massenberg, Daniel Lanois, and many others all get a final pass, even if they do it themselves on another day.

So although it's common, mastering is not just where a less than ideal group of mixes go to sound competitive. That's like saying "only bad mixes need mastering" ... which would be totally missing the boat.
Old 18th November 2005
  #44
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
To me, my mastering engineer is a partner, and I mix knowing that my stuff will go to mastering after I am done. There are things I know that can actually be done with my mastering engineer's gear better than mine, and I also go easy on some things, like the amount of compression or 2 bus EQ to give my mastering guys room to tweak all the songs together into a consistent album. I have actually had one album go off to a high end mastering and come back almost identical, but it made sense for the album.

I know its not cool to say on a lot of recording boards, but I love the sound of a big super loud pop or rock CD (when done well) and that many CDs are served really well by a healthy amount of compression and limiting. I also think that sometimes some mastering engineers due a disservice to some artists by going too easy on the Compression or limiting as a matter of principle.
Old 18th November 2005
  #45
Gear Head
 
archtop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm
I also think that sometimes some mastering engineers due a disservice to some artists by going too easy on the Compression or limiting as a matter of principle.

you are living in a different world than I am sir.
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