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Giving up or get on with it?
Old 1st July 2009
  #1
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Giving up or get on with it?

So this is another one that goes to the mastering department because I have the feeling you are more objective when it comes to questions.

After mixing songs my own as well as for other musicians for six years by now I know I am getting better and better but sometimes when I hear what a nice balance some old dogs in the business are mixing I want to capitulate.

So I am honest to myself at the moment I have the feeling I just overestimate my skills as well as my physical abilities (stress).

I mean I get a good balance and a good mix lets say fair and I know that all is depending on taste.

Myself I do not like some mixes by so called "Big time mixers".

Sometimes I listen to masters and I think WTF comes this subtle but nice impact from....give up man give up man....six wasted years.

So I tried many tacks to create some impact.
Using tube saturation in parallel taking all tracks over to GP9 before mixing (helps both a little)...

But I do not get this impact which I can hear in some mixes done on consoles. (Confession to the mixing with desk lovers?)

At the time I am saving money for a D2B but I have the feeling it is not the gear it is me. I get the feeling gear is an excuse for my skills.

Conclusion:

1. I blame my skills?
2. I blame my gear because it is true you cant get it with 90% ITB?
3. None of this?
You are an idiot the reason is:


Don´t get me wrong I have happy customers but I guess they don´t know the difference what I am talking about here. And you mastering engineers are hearing tons of mixes every day.... so you sure have a opinion to my questions....

If you have good arguments I swear I will give up and sell all the gear.

Andreas
Old 1st July 2009
  #2
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If you love what you do (music, engineering, mixing) keep on doing it. Six years is a good start ....... it takes a long time ..... and if you really love it you'll get there.
Old 1st July 2009
  #3
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Hi Andreas,

The best mixes I've heard have mostly been due to the recording- no so much the mix engineer. I always ask what they did and with the best mix on the album and they generally say "hardly anything, it was a great recording/performance".
Old 1st July 2009
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
Hi Andreas,

The best mixes I've heard have mostly been due to the recording- no so much the mix engineer. I always ask what they did and with the best mix on the album and they generally say "hardly anything, it was a great recording/performance".
Good point but great musicians with a great recording session wont come to little Andreas mixing room.....sad but true....
Old 1st July 2009
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
Good point but great musicians with a great recording session wont come to little Andreas mixing room.....sad but true....
Yes but you have to start somewhere. You should hear some of the work that I get through the door! I personally think polishing turds is very good experience. Then when you get the good work, your experience comes into play. Work hard, make the clients happy, and they will come back and are generally much better!
Old 1st July 2009
  #6
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Andreas, the tracking (including mic selection) instrument selection/arrangement, quality of the material, etc, these elements are probably more important than how well u use ur equipment to create impact....
Old 1st July 2009
  #7
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Hey Andreas,

I think escpecially in audio, there is so much to explore and often things can be done in so many different ways.
It is not an office job where you might get by with a certain amount of skills and knowledge and actually have no need or possibility to grow because after all you're facing the same problems with minimal variations everyday.
In audio, I believe one's knowledge grows with time and experience naturally and out of necessity. Like sports, maybe bodybuilding, your ears are the muscles that grow bigger everytime you use them.

Didn't you just shortly post that drum part where Paul Frindle and others helped out and offered some tips and tricks how to achieve the desired result? You were facing a particular problem that you didn't have to deal with before so you asked for ideas and got many responses. So next time a similar situation arises, you'll be prepared better and can try to solve it with the new approaches you learned. And this goes on and on, you gain more knowledge and thus your mixes will get better and better.

Why would you think of your six years doing audio as being wasted?
Like Ricardo said, if you love it keep on doing it!
Doesn't it make you happy if your clients are satisfied?
Ben F said some good things too!

Unless you're in financial trouble and/or lost all the love for what you are doing, I wouldn't think of selling your equipment.

By the way, I am not a mastering engineer, just someone that is touched by your post that gives the impression you're being sadly demotivated at the moment for no good reason as I hope I illustrated with the things I said.
Old 1st July 2009
  #8
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the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. that includes listening to other peoples mixes.
keep on with it, and you'll keep learning.
maybe your mixes are not inferior, just different. every mixer has their own sound,...you are still developing yours.
enjoy it...its music, its fun
Old 1st July 2009
  #9
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I hate to tell you but these things take time and 6 years is not a lot of time... yes, if you do it for a living everyday... but the average person isn't a full time mix engineer. Also every aspect helps you to become a better mixer... being a great tracking engineer, live sound guy, musician, music listener, etc...

I always say it takes about 10 years to become good at any of these skill sets...

Also some people are just "naturals" in the way they hear and place things. I use to do this trick with assistants and have different ones pull mixes of the same songs using the same elements and guess what, they'd all sound different from one another... it's human nature.

Low end has always been my gift... and if a mix lacks the right amount of low end it never feels right... In fact I've always found that bass players make some of the best mix engineers, they understand how the low end elements fit in the mix and drive the mix.
Old 1st July 2009
  #10
Gear Maniac
Altough Im not doing audio full-time at this moment, I want to give you an advice.

Im basically in your situation. I run a little mixing room and try to improve everything I do. Although I havent been around as long as you are. But anyway, heres my advice:

If you can make a living out of what you are doing: Be happy. The majority of people doing "audio" dont get anything out of it.

If you really enjoy mixing: Never stop as this is something that defines you as a person. Sure, there might be circumstances that force you to work as something else, but if THIS is something you really enjoy, never stop, it might be a (big) part of you as a person. And you dont want to lose that, do you?

If you have a "crisis" (like you seem to have): Keep in mind that you are priviledged to do something you actually enjoy alot. Not many people do this nowerdays.

If you think you arent good enough: Be critical towards your own work and try to locate the areas which you consider "weak" and work on them. Get advice from other people, but most of all, enjoy what you do because especially in a field that is not just remotely attached to art, joy is one of the most essential things to have during work. If you are doing work without joy, everyone will know it by listening.

Just have fun, skill (always) comes in the long end You might not turn out the mixer in the world, but if you stick around long enough, you might just be better than most people.

And you already said your customers seem happy: So should you be.

Just keep on working. From reading your posts here, you always seemed very absorbed about the stuff you could learn. Keep it that way because I think this will get you along

Viel Spaß!

chris
Old 1st July 2009
  #11
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be pre-pared to be critical about your work all your live ... there are only a few spare moments I feel like WOW f*ck I'm good ....

I always think I can do better if I try harder ... and others can do it all SOOOOO easy with two fingers up in their nose ...



and now go sell your gear ... I see you have a nice tape machine ... gimmie a call
Old 1st July 2009
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post

I personally think polishing turds is very good experience. Then when you get the good work, your experience comes into play.
Yes!

John Link
Old 1st July 2009
  #13
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I hate everything I do for about five years.
Old 1st July 2009
  #14
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doing this for nearly 15 years and only recently feel good/confident enough to have started a business. So yes up/downs are part of the program
Old 1st July 2009
  #15
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OP, i don't think u are doing mastering so it is safe to say that this is about staying with recording and mixing right?? Go ahead stay Bro....it'll take some time but u'll get real good at it eventually...It took me 20 years to set up correctly a band's show on a small stage in 30 minutes...the first time it took me 2 hours! That said, if you want to get involved in mastering, that's a very bad idea.....the business of mastering is flooded with incompetents and charlatans some of who post round here, some of them had to mortgage their homes (or an equity loan) to get money for expensive gear (so they can pretend) thinking that if they post nice photos, business will immediately come to 'em heh .....Now they realize their stupidity and pretend things are rosy....U know why many don' like me?? because i say things that are real Yo.... and that's A-OK wit me cause i don't give a rats a$$...i am not after the title of mr congeniality inh fact i don' even care if i am being despised...if this post seems to be T.M.I ...it is meant to send a signal out there..
Old 1st July 2009
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
So this is another one that goes to the mastering department because I have the feeling you are more objective when it comes to questions.

(ed)

If you have good arguments I swear I will give up and sell all the gear.

Andreas

Without hearing your work we are in no position to judge it. Maybe it's great, maybe it's less than great.

But as far as your own confidence ... if you lack confidence then quit. Just don't bother. Music engineering takes a vision, confidence to get there, talent and skill to make it real. If you have to be talked into it, then you're in the wrong field.

I'd say the same to an aspiring musician ... get out and leave it to the passionate. It's a hard game if you are 100% in need of this kind of activity.
Old 1st July 2009
  #17
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Thanks for all the answers.

And yes thorough this I found some answers myself.


1. Do still love it?

The answer is clear I think: NO!
Why!

Yes it can be done in 1000 different ways.
And thats the point. I give my clients a rough mix and ask them if I can go this direction.
Ok mostly they say yes it sounds good go this route.

After I went this route in over 70% the client gives me a call and wants to have the mix upside down.

Ok I wrote here this is normal in a different thread.

But I hate mixing the same song 2 or more times.
So most clients in my league think the mix can do wonders on the song or on bad tracked guitars.

They think I can give them a massive guitar sound out of m.-box line signals.

So last time I did re-amping and used my tape recorder and it took massive time for the setup to start mixing this song.

All I got was 350 Euros this is a ridicules cheap price.
So clients want to have all the best sound they can get for the lowest amount of money.

Yes, this is frustrating when in the end the clients wants to have everything different but he advised me to go the rough mix route.

Anyway I think some musicians do not understand what time it takes to get a good fair mix and they compare it to different music which is mastered.

Some people here say it is just matter of communication.
Is it? I do not think so because of the reason that is is totally subjective the client can always call for a revise as long as he likes.

But there must be a bottom line I mean what they are expecting from mainly bad tracked stuff.... so my job is 75% fix it in the mix.

Amen....
Old 1st July 2009
  #18
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Maybe you should do it part time for people who want your ear? In the end, mixing artistry is exactly that ... the great mixers don't do more than a few revisions.

So maybe you are a great mixer without the catalog to attract the right clients? Be more selective and build a body of work that has your sound.

Working for a band of egos is no fun, and if you lack a certain amount of cred you'll be in that mess.
Old 1st July 2009
  #19
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Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Maybe you should do it part time for people who want your ear? In the end, mixing artistry is exactly that ... the great mixers don't do more than a few revisions.

So maybe you are a great mixer without the catalog to attract the right clients? Be more selective and build a body of work that has your sound.

Working for a band of egos is no fun, and if you lack a certain amount of cred you'll be in that mess.
Brilliant answer .... I am sure I need a long brake.
But the second question would be how to get talented musicians to try it with me without they ever heard other brilliant musicians working with me.

What I get from customers is OK music but far away from brilliant.

I mean this is a delta for me for everyone one time is the first time.
So yes it would be fun to mix brilliant music with professionals which not only have "musician" on their doorbell.

One Job for TV is just in stock by a great german TV composer who is a friend of mine but I feel I need a brake and to think myself about all what we wrote here.

Maybe I come to a good solution.

THANKS you SLUTZ.....
Old 1st July 2009
  #20
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mixing online is got to be the hardest type of online business there is.....what's wrong w u?? charge money for revisions man......u listen to what they'd like so u know what to achieve from the mix u take notes, then u go to your lab and work on it...if someone doesn't know what they like u tell them what ur gonna do, if they like it thyen it's a go....if they change their mind, TUFF LUCK....u charge them by an hourly rate or by an extra fee equal to another day's worth...Keep in mind that mixing one song with 48 tracks can take as long as 2 weeks or some 40 hours.....if you are *mixing online* for only a day's woth (8 hrs) u are still making more money than someone working a full weeks at McDonalds (where u can end up)...my 2C
Old 1st July 2009
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain View Post
mixing online is got to be the hardest type of online business there is.....what's wrong w u?? charge money for revisions man......u listen to what they'd like so u know what to achieve from the mix u take notes, then u go to your lab and work on it...if someone doesn't know what they like u tell them what ur gonna do, if they like it thyen it's a go....if they change their mind, TUFF LUCK....u charge them by an hourly rate or by an extra fee equal to another day's worth...Keep in mind that mixing one song with 48 tracks can take as long as 2 weeks or some 40 hours.....if you are *mixing online* for only a day's woth (8 hrs) u are still making more money than someone working a full weeks at McDonalds (where u can end up)...my 2C
thanks another great point.
it will flow into my thinking yes...
Old 4th July 2009
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post

At the time I am saving money for a D2B but I have the feeling it is not the gear it is me. I get the feeling gear is an excuse for my skills.

Conclusion:

1. I blame my skills?
2. I blame my gear because it is true you cant get it with 90% ITB?
3. None of this?
You are an idiot the reason is:


Don´t get me wrong I have happy customers but I guess they don´t know the difference what I am talking about here. And you mastering engineers are hearing tons of mixes every day.... so you sure have a opinion to my questions....

If you have good arguments I swear I will give up and sell all the gear.

Andreas

I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. I was mixing in the 1970's and despite having a great insight into the technicality of it all (being a design engineer), I didn't rate myself as a first class mixing engineer.

It wasn't that the customers were unhappy, I'm sure I got what they were wanting the majority of the time - it was basically because I loved the music above all else, so I found it difficult and unrewarding to be forced to do what i personally didn't feel was best. All the time I found myself 'playing other versions and productions in my head' that I would have liked to have done instead - this even went on after sessions and kept me awake at nights! But I was only the engineer, not the musicians or the producer, so I could never realise these things in real live sessionsm, only in mixes I sometimes did for fun after everyone else had finished and gone home..

I was not overly impressed or proud at being the master of 'so many controls', or egotistical about my humble role in the whole thing either - so these factors didn't make it all worth it to me psychologically speaking either.. Whilst I loved the creative atmosphere of the sessions, ultimately I ended up finding the whole thing very hard work emotionally and kind of drifted away from it back into a technical and design role.

To this day i still find myself turned off and horribly disappointed with productions I hear and I take these into my head and involuntarliy find myself concocting a mental production of 'what might have been', had they played this instead of that, or mixed it like this instead, or didn't crush the life out of it in some manic quest to simply make more noise :-( I hear those sounds in my head and long to hear them actually come out of speakers and witness the excitement for real :-)

I now spend my time trying to advance the art by offering designs that people might use to do their creative work - and of course these reflect current production trends (as well as being able to do many other things :-)). In the end I think this is more satisfying for me, but these days it has become quite a lonely pursuit and I really do miss being on the sharp end as well, but who needs an ageing 58year old sound engineer these days - LOL.

My advice is that if you love what you are doing and have a deep feeling for it, persist at all costs. Satisfaction in what you are doing is many times more valuable than simply towing the line to make money. Your perception of how things should be may well be the right one and indeed your day may come :-)
Old 4th July 2009
  #23
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6 years? Congratulations! You have just entered the second stage of your apprenticeship. ;-)

Alistair
Old 4th July 2009
  #24
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Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
6 years? Congratulations! You have just entered the second stage of your apprenticeship. ;-)

Alistair
I guess learning never stops in engineering.....
Just endless stages and plateaus...

I have thought about it a bit more and it is also a frustrating point that in the old times humans had to work together to make it happen in real control room.

A main frustrating reason is that I get no feedback during a session.
And we all know this effect:
The longer you listen to it the more it gets nice to us.

Having feedback from a real human sitting next to me would take a lot of pressure of expectations from my psyche.

I tried to send mixes to different engineers before showing it the customer.
But I can understand they have their own work to do and not much time.

It would be great to find someone (even if it is online) who is willed to check mixes in exchange.
This even would be some kind of quality control because mistakes happen.
Old 4th July 2009
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle View Post
I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. I was mixing in the 1970's and despite having a great insight into the technicality of it all (being a design engineer), I didn't rate myself as a first class mixing engineer.

It wasn't that the customers were unhappy, I'm sure I got what they were wanting the majority of the time - it was basically because I loved the music above all else, so I found it difficult and unrewarding to be forced to do what i personally didn't feel was best. All the time I found myself 'playing other versions and productions in my head' that I would have liked to have done instead - this even went on after sessions and kept me awake at nights! But I was only the engineer, not the musicians or the producer, so I could never realise these things in real live sessionsm, only in mixes I sometimes did for fun after everyone else had finished and gone home..

I was not overly impressed or proud at being the master of 'so many controls', or egotistical about my humble role in the whole thing either - so these factors didn't make it all worth it to me psychologically speaking either.. Whilst I loved the creative atmosphere of the sessions, ultimately I ended up finding the whole thing very hard work emotionally and kind of drifted away from it back into a technical and design role.

To this day i still find myself turned off and horribly disappointed with productions I hear and I take these into my head and involuntarliy find myself concocting a mental production of 'what might have been', had they played this instead of that, or mixed it like this instead, or didn't crush the life out of it in some manic quest to simply make more noise :-( I hear those sounds in my head and long to hear them actually come out of speakers and witness the excitement for real :-)

I now spend my time trying to advance the art by offering designs that people might use to do their creative work - and of course these reflect current production trends (as well as being able to do many other things :-)). In the end I think this is more satisfying for me, but these days it has become quite a lonely pursuit and I really do miss being on the sharp end as well, but who needs an ageing 58year old sound engineer these days - LOL.

My advice is that if you love what you are doing and have a deep feeling for it, persist at all costs. Satisfaction in what you are doing is many times more valuable than simply towing the line to make money. Your perception of how things should be may well be the right one and indeed your day may come :-)
If everythin u said is the honest to God truth then i pitty u 4 settling down with the second best thing u could do...and if u really good at design (as i think u are) then be grateful...if u ever wanted to have that kind of influence that decides the direction of a production, u shoud have stuck with tracking/mixing man...who knows eventually u could have mixed a hit and convince others that as a producer u can also be a good risk....Labels and production houses don' assume that audio engineers are good producers....A hit maker's mind is totally a different beast from the engineering one...so it doesn't matter waht u think u've *missed out*, u could have been lousy producing ur first record (sale wise) which could have been ur last and even if u spent the rest of ur life unable to sleep for how u would have done differently, it wouldn't have made a damn difference at all 'cause no one gives a rat's a$$ about how u feel a record or a mix should be executed... at the end of the day, it's record sales that make *real* producers not some engineer's personal taste.....As for being 58...gimme a friggin' break would ya?? this isn't about age. FWIW an audio engineer should be the producer's biatch and should feel happy about that..that is if ur really a *good* audio engineer...ur goal is to please the artists, band, producer, label ppl, etc. U shoul b happy and feel accomplished when u made everyone happy realizing their ideas not yours. That's ur challenge ...this isn't abot pleasing urself....my2C
Old 4th July 2009
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sJoeAgain View Post
If everythin u said is the honest to God truth then i pitty u 4 settling down with the second best thing u could do...and if u really good at design (as i think u are) then be grateful...if u ever wanted to have that kind of influence that decides the direction of a production, u shoud have stuck with tracking/mixing man...who knows eventually u could have mixed a hit and convince others that as a producer u can also be a good risk....Labels and production houses don' assume that audio engineers are good producers....A hit maker's mind is totally a different beast from the engineering one...so it doesn't matter waht u think u've *missed out*, u could have been lousy producing ur first record (sale wise) which could have been ur last and even if u spent the rest of ur life unable to sleep for how u would have done differently, it wouldn't have made a damn difference at all 'cause no one gives a rat's a$$ about how u feel a record or a mix should be executed... at the end of the day, it's record sales that make *real* producers not some engineer's personal taste.....As for being 58...gimme a friggin' break would ya?? this isn't about age. FWIW an audio engineer should be the producer's biatch and should feel happy about that..that is if ur really a *good* audio engineer...ur goal is to please the artists, band, producer, label ppl, etc. U shoul b happy and feel accomplished when u made everyone happy realizing their ideas not yours. That's ur challenge ...this isn't abot pleasing urself....my2C
Thanks for the wisdom here :-)

Of course everything I say in public is the truth as I see it from my own perspective. But being human I must also entertain the idea that I might be wrong.

But with respect I have to disagree from an entirely personal. point of view with the idea that the ultimate goal is to please everyone else, get famous and make a shed load of money and fame. Or my failure to do so as a producer/engineer represents a 'personal loss' to be lamented.

I have never ever taken a job of work anywhere at all for the sole purpose of money or fame. Every single new job I have ever taken was for a pay cut in comparison with my existing employment (often really considerable losses like giving up lucrative share options etc..). Without any kind of formal qualifications, I have several times worked for absolutely nothing for a period, to give both my employer and myself time to assess whether I was going to be able to bring value to the work, with no guarauntee of any follow on work. Each time this was done from a deep feeling that I had something valuable to contribute, if I could apply myself with committment. And thankfully, people who were prepared to give me the chance were usually well rewarded - i.e. Trident studios, Virgin Records, SSL and Sony,.

As I sit here now after 2 years of Proaudiodsp I am in a similar position, having blown the major part of my family's savings on the off-chance that something i could still make would be of use to the art and the industry., i.e. you guys at the sharp end making the art.

Without this kind of attitude I would have festered in some outback of rural Norfolk from the age of 17 years old. A great many people have benefitted from the stuff I have had a hand in designing ovcer the decades. Far from considering this as 'personal loss' as you put it, because I haven't made a shed load of money, I am honestly deeply grateful for this and the personal resolve that allowed me the honour and chance to contribute.

There is more to life than simply playing the accepted game (whatever it takes) for 'success' as measured by the commercial success of your work. There is validity and reason in art that transcends immediate gain in fiscal terms only.

This is why I carry on doing what I'm doing now and why I am honestly advising the guy originally posing the question not to give up, and to follow his heart if he feels a deep sense of love for the art and conviction that he can contribute to it. IMVHO quite honestly in the current climate, we need more people like him.

I personally would more readily trust someone who is prepared to ask themselves difficult searching questions and entertain realistic assessment of their contribution and value, over someone operating by rote at the behest of wealth and fame - any day :-) It's not that success isn't deserved, it's just that it is neither a guaranteed right, nor something to sell oneself out to obtain :-)

The fact that he is honest and open enough to conduct such personal discussion in public shows me his value. I have been around a very long time,. I have seen it all, believe me...
Old 4th July 2009
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
So this is another one that goes to the mastering department because I have the feeling you are more objective when it comes to questions.

After mixing songs my own as well as for other musicians for six years by now I know I am getting better and better but sometimes when I hear what a nice balance some old dogs in the business are mixing I want to capitulate.

So I am honest to myself at the moment I have the feeling I just overestimate my skills as well as my physical abilities (stress).

I mean I get a good balance and a good mix lets say fair and I know that all is depending on taste.

Myself I do not like some mixes by so called "Big time mixers".

Sometimes I listen to masters and I think WTF comes this subtle but nice impact from....give up man give up man....six wasted years.

So I tried many tacks to create some impact.
Using tube saturation in parallel taking all tracks over to GP9 before mixing (helps both a little)...

But I do not get this impact which I can hear in some mixes done on consoles. (Confession to the mixing with desk lovers?)

At the time I am saving money for a D2B but I have the feeling it is not the gear it is me. I get the feeling gear is an excuse for my skills.

Conclusion:

1. I blame my skills?
2. I blame my gear because it is true you cant get it with 90% ITB?
3. None of this?
You are an idiot the reason is:


Don´t get me wrong I have happy customers but I guess they don´t know the difference what I am talking about here. And you mastering engineers are hearing tons of mixes every day.... so you sure have a opinion to my questions....

If you have good arguments I swear I will give up and sell all the gear.

Andreas
Creating beautiful music might sometimes be a bit confusing and nerve wracking. Music is a lot about being emotionally attached, focusing on giving the listener a beautiful listening experience. For this to be possible, the infrastructure and context must be properly managed, you need to find good passionate people to work with that care, want to grow in your presence and who do this with the right purpose. Music is a lot about giving, about loving, about caring, about expressing the need of God's forgiveness. Beautiful music takes place when there is truth within the context, when the musicians and technicians are good and caring to each other. Try to look at your situation from this point of view and then ask yourself how you can get there, what do you need to do in order to improve the purpose and business justification. You might be too business driven, you might be in the wrong context, you might work with the wrong people and companies etc... Take this as a learning experience and now focus on something completely different. Go for the real thing in everything, think about how to give the listener a better total experience, so not only mix/master music, mix/master good music that makes good. Be involved in projects that create great experiences. Do what others are afraid to do, do your own thing. I think this will totally change your whole perspective on things. Take the lead.
Old 4th July 2009
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
But as far as your own confidence ... if you lack confidence then quit. Just don't bother. Music engineering takes a vision, confidence to get there, talent and skill to make it real. If you have to be talked into it, then you're in the wrong field.
I respectfully disagree. On the contrary, although outwardly confidence can be very useful, I would say that self-doubt and the ability to self-critique is the first step in achieving greatness!

Quote:
I'd say the same to an aspiring musician ... get out and leave it to the passionate.
I think that Mr Holmes's passion is exactly what is leading him to doubt himself.

Alistair
Old 4th July 2009
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle View Post
Thanks for the wisdom here :-)

There is more to life than simply playing the accepted game (whatever it takes) for 'success' as measured by the commercial success of your work. There is validity and reason in art that transcends immediate gain in fiscal terms only.
Thank you for these very valuable words! Commercial success is not even important, what's important is to passionately use your abilities to create a great experience for everyone. After all, being able to contribute with and experience beautiful music is a blessing in life. Everyone should look at it like that.
Old 4th July 2009
  #30
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES View Post
I guess learning never stops in engineering.....
Just endless stages and plateaus...
Indeed but my comment went a little further than that: 6 years really isn't that long in this field. It takes at least that long to become good and I think quite a bit longer to become great.

Quote:
A main frustrating reason is that I get no feedback during a session.
I can empathise with you. In most of my work (post production, not music mixing or mastering) I am left to my own devices. In a sense this is great. It is this way because my clients trust me.

On the other hand I occasionally need the feedback. Partly because of the taste issue: My clients might not have the same taste as me. But also because I am a human and as most creative humans, a touch sensitive at times.

Quote:
And we all know this effect:
The longer you listen to it the more it gets nice to us.
Actually I suffer the opposite affliction! When it is my own creation or a music mix (as opposed to post work or mastering), the longer I listen, as doubt creeps in, the less I tend to like something I am working on. So I send out my work to a few of my friends and their feedback usually gets me going again.

Quote:
Having feedback from a real human sitting next to me would take a lot of pressure of expectations from my psyche.
Indeed.

Quote:
It would be great to find someone (even if it is online) who is willed to check mixes in exchange.
This even would be some kind of quality control because mistakes happen.
I believe there is a section on this forum where you can post music for feedback. That is not ideal when you are mixing a client's material but maybe you can find someone that is at your level more or less (or preferably a bit above) and build a trust relationship with them so that you can exchange mixes without making them public.

Good luck!

Alistair
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