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help with studio routing?
Old 17th June 2009
  #1
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help with studio routing?

I’m using the Digi 002 to carry 24bit/96khz audio out of my DAW via SPDIF (Using rca SPDIF to xlr AES ) into the Lavry 4496 DA. Out of the Lavry into the analog path, back into the Lavry 4496 AD, out AES into the Digi 002 SPDIF. That works fine. The problem now lies on plugging into my D-Box for monitoring.

Typically if I were to use the analog outs of the Digi 002, I would set my record channel to be Record Monitor Enabled so I could hear what I’m recording in real time by selecting a different output. But since I don’t want to use any of these analog outputs for mastering I have to enable another digital output. However, using the Digi 002 I only have another digital output, which is the optical ADAT outputs. These are only 16bit/48khz in 8 channel output mode, I can’t use it in 24bit/96khz SPDIF mode since I’m already using the rca connecter in spdif and it’s either or.

What would you recommend; Should I be looking at getting a digital audio router / splitter OR get something that can convert the ADAT optical to a 2 channel 24bit/96khz signal? How would you setup in this situation?
Old 17th June 2009
  #2
pmx
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are you sure it's either/or with the adat/spdif thing? it's 48k max anyway. but if that's true, it would mean that it's not possible to use a 002 at 96 for mastering because you would want to have a separate digital output after the recording because of final itb processing. if you don't do any (is there anyone?) you could get a aes splitter.

you can work at 44/48 though using an adat to aes converter (rme makes one). if 96 is an issue for you, dump the 002 and get a pci-x aes card (and no more pt).

edit: another possibilty would be to playback from a different machine with aes/spdif out, and then record into the 002 and use its spdif rca out to monitor.
Old 17th June 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmx View Post
are you sure it's either/or with the adat/spdif thing?
Yes, the Digi 002 can be either 10 channels when using the rca or optical as SPDIF. OR 18 channels when using the rca SPDIF and the optical I/O as 8 channel ADAT at 48Khz.

What are some using as their DAW I/O. Before hitting the exrternal AD/DA's
Old 17th June 2009
  #4
73*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONDRAY View Post
However, using the Digi 002 I only have another digital output, which is the optical ADAT outputs. These are only 16bit/48khz in 8 channel output mode, I can’t use it in 24bit/96khz SPDIF mode since I’m already using the rca connecter in spdif and it’s either or.
Are you certain that the 002's ADAT connections only operate @ 16bit? Seems a bit weird.

What I'd personally do is get one of the RME format converters like the ADI-2 or one of the 8 ch units.
Old 17th June 2009
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Thanks for the help, you are correct, the Digi 002 ADAT optical signal does carry 24-bit 44.1/48Khz. Regardless I need to get a 24/96 signal out.

I may be trying the impossible and may need a totally new direction. I’ve been making the move from ITB to OTB and want to start in the right direction. Is there no other options then the ADI-2, seems like another block in the path, and does the ADI-2 convert 8 channel ADAT to 2 channel AES/EBU at 96Khz. Seems that the ADI-4 is the one that does this, no?

I want a less is more attitude and a router will have to come in due time.
Old 17th June 2009
  #6
73*
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I'm surprised the 002 doesn't work in S/MUX mode and provide 4 I/O @ 96kHz seems like a senseless limit of the hardware...
Old 17th June 2009
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Originally Posted by 73* View Post
I'm surprised the 002 doesn't work in S/MUX mode and provide 4 I/O @ 96kHz seems like a senseless limit of the hardware...
ya, it sucks, tell me about it...


Could you see a TC ELECTRONIC DIGITAL KONNEKT X32 be a fix to this problem,it has S/Mux? Anyone using one of these for routing/splitting signal?
Old 17th June 2009
  #8
73*
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I had looked at the Digital Konnect X32 this time last year when I was doing a bunch of upgrades. I ended up purchasing a RME RayDAT because it allowed me to have an AES loop for my HEDD and have a seperate S/PDIF output for the Advocet, and I use the ADAT connections to connect my FW1884 as a secondary front end and to link to my secondary PC that has another RME 9632 card in it. If I had the funds I would have just gotten rid of the FW1884 and got a Mackie control and another 8-ch or real conversion. I definitely had (still have) some growing pains like you're having. Going from all ITB with mostly prosumer level gear to wanting to incorporate some truly prefessional gear is a tough one, especially with a fixed budget.

Sorry to go off on tangent. The X32 might do the job for you, I stayed away from it because of the Firewire thing and I had the option to go PCIe also I was really into the level of flexibility that the RME Total mix gives. Are you doing your mastering inside Protools? Is that why you're tied to the 002 for your outboard loop and monitoring?
Old 17th June 2009
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73* View Post
I had looked at the Digital Konnect X32 this time last year when I was doing a bunch of upgrades. I ended up purchasing a RME RayDAT because it allowed me to have an AES loop for my HEDD and have a seperate S/PDIF output for the Advocet, and I use the ADAT connections to connect my FW1884 as a secondary front end and to link to my secondary PC that has another RME 9632 card in it. If I had the funds I would have just gotten rid of the FW1884 and got a Mackie control and another 8-ch or real conversion. I definitely had (still have) some growing pains like you're having. Going from all ITB with mostly prosumer level gear to wanting to incorporate some truly prefessional gear is a tough one, especially with a fixed budget.

Sorry to go off on tangent. The X32 might do the job for you, I stayed away from it because of the Firewire thing and I had the option to go PCIe also I was really into the level of flexibility that the RME Total mix gives. Are you doing your mastering inside Protools? Is that why you're tied to the 002 for your outboard loop and monitoring?
no, not doing mastering in Pro Tools. Using Cubase or Peak, depending on my mood. I find that cubase masteres don't sound as good as Wave Editors or Peak, so I'm phazing away.

I do use pro tools for tracking vocals occasionally and some post work which I get OMF files for. I could look into getting a another audio card for mastering, that's why I asked what other ME's were using as there link between mastering converters and the DAW.
Old 18th June 2009
  #10
73*
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If I recall correctly from another thread, you don't have the option to go PCIe. If you have an extra PCI slot on your mother board you should check out some of the older RME cards such as the HDSP AES-32. That should allow you to run your entire mastering loop and monitoring all over AES and leaving the 002 alone for other duties.

Just a thought.
Old 18th June 2009
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So far the options are in the same price bracket. What would you say will be the most used unit, now and in future situations?

- RME ADI-4 DD: to convert the Digi 002's 8-channel ADAT to AES (96 kHz)

- Lynx AES16e: to provide enough digital AES/EBU 24bit/96khz I/O to be able to setup accordingly.
Old 18th June 2009
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Ondray the "only" thing you want is that you want to re-route your incoming signal to your daw to an extra output / dig / aes on your DAW ... which feeds the d-box ...

I think the RME software could do that easy ....

I even think you could drop the digi ..... in your mastering loop ...

I'm off for a racing bike ride before mastering ....
Old 18th June 2009
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
I think the RME software could do that easy ....
Software for the their ADI-4 hardware you mean, or something else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
I even think you could drop the digi ..... in your mastering loop ...
I'm up for doing this, what do you recommend? I want to keep costs to a minimal with out sacrificing quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
I'm off for a racing bike ride before mastering ....
Bicycle or Motorcycle, need to feel that wind blow through your hair to get that nice smooth sound or something
Old 18th June 2009
  #14
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Ondray ... I'm taking the AES-32 as a reference and the breakout box BOB-32 .. so easy setup ... no cutting corners .. just get the real deal ....
I think you could do a setup like I think would be possible ....

you'll use one output in your software AES1/2 -> route that to AES ouput 1/2 & 3/4
output 1/2 will go to your DA and analoge loop
output 3/4 will go to your monitor input 1

you'll get back an AES signal from your mastering-loop -> connect to AES in 1/2
you can route that input to in 1/2 on your capture software
also route that to input 3/4 -> and route that signal to outputs 5/6 -> connect those to your monitor input 2

you can A/B with a push off a button on your monitor-control ...

don't use the asio drivers ... but the MME-WDM .. there will be no audio loop ....
you're convicted to working in one sample rate like this ... but I can live with that ..... some will say otherwise .. but we all have our opinions and ways off working ...

you could get it at some online-store and test it out the RME AES-32 and the BOB-32 .... if it works .. otherwise .. return it ... no money is lost like that ...

Bicycle is better .... more fun .. through the woods ... it was great !!!!

I have added the picture of the BOB .. it's connected with a 5 meter multi AES -cable to the PC/DAW which is in an silent/closed 19inch rack ..
from the BOB you can run standard AES/XLR cables to your equipment ...
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Old 18th June 2009
  #15
73*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ONDRAY View Post
So far the options are in the same price bracket. What would you say will be the most used unit, now and in future situations?

- RME ADI-4 DD: to convert the Digi 002's 8-channel ADAT to AES (96 kHz)

- Lynx AES16e: to provide enough digital AES/EBU 24bit/96khz I/O to be able to setup accordingly.

Of the two given your situation and the 48kHz limit of the 002's ADAT interface, I think the clear choice would be the AES16e.

If you go with the RME ADI-4 DD anytime you're working on 96kHz material you will be forced to do a SRC down to 44.1kHz or 48kHz. The other RME format converter that would "allow" you to work @ 96kHz would be the ADI192 DD, but that would simply allow you to upsample the ADAT outs of the 002 to 96kHz. It would be senseless added processing. Also by the looks of the Lynx it should also be able to act as a digital router the same way RME cards do.

In this situation the Lynx would get my money.
Old 18th June 2009
  #16
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thanks for the help. I'm gonna grab the Lynx AES16e. It's an extra $450 for the RME HDSP AES-32 here in Canada and can't justify that cost right now considering the Lynx will provide equal results.

Anyone have any driver / software issues running this the Lynx AES16e on a Mac Pro Intel?

P.S. What's the deal with the Lynx AESe-SRC model, that can convert formats. Is that really needed at this stage? but the looks of it I can add this option on at a later time, No?
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