The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Andy Wallace mix = LOUD master? Dynamics Plugins
Old 10th December 2008
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Tranny-Cap-Tube's Avatar
 

Andy Wallace mix = LOUD master?

Does Andy's mixing allow for louder masters? I was trying to get one of my clients songs to be as hot as Chevelles' 'The Red' and though I can get the same relative freq. response and RMS levels, the percieved hugeness of his mix is overwhelmingly loud(liki 2-3 dbs more). Or is the percieved loudness achieved by the mastering engineer?

I'm thinking that Andy pushing the console into saturation could be a big part of it.
Old 10th December 2008
  #2
Lives for gear
 
lord_bunny's Avatar
 

a long time ago i ripped nevermind into the daw and took a look at the wave-form. dynamic in comparison to my pre-masters!

i think all good mixers are about trying to achieve maximum illusion for minimum voltage, and anyone who's REALLY good at that has maximized thier mixes loudness potential so that it can be further increased by the ME.

so while saturation may be a part of that, it's also about juggling frequencies and making room for everything to sit well. anyone can make a hot mix or master, but at the same rms Andy Wallace or anyone of his calibre is going to have a mix that is percieved as bigger and this is because of their superior effeciency with the headroom they have.

i hate listening to his mixes! they're mushy but defined, wet but up front, punchy but soft and easy on the ears... all the instruments are defined without any harshness. my ego can't take it.
Old 10th December 2008
  #3
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_bunny View Post
i hate listening to his mixes! they're mushy but defined, wet but up front, punchy but soft and easy on the ears... all the instruments are defined without any harshness. my ego can't take it.
Ha! That's a big +1!!thumbsup
Old 11th December 2008
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Tranny-Cap-Tube's Avatar
 

Could mixing to tape be part of it?
Old 11th December 2008
  #5
Lives for gear
 
bgrotto's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranny-Cap-Tube View Post
Could mixing to tape be part of it?
I mix to tape almost exclusively, and I still suck...

I don't think that's the answer.
Old 11th December 2008
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Never1's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Ha! That's a big +1!!thumbsup

haha +2!!!!!

No, but it really does come down to the arrangement; period.

You'll often hear mix AE's talk about taking away elements in a mix as opposed to adding things, and this is the reason. The more things that are present means the less real estate you've got.

If you pay close attention to Andy Wallace's mixes, he always has a few very upfront elements to focus on and everything else really takes a back seat.

These elements might remain fairly constant throughout the mix (a la Nevermind) or ever changing (a la Chinese Democracy), but one thing is for sure... he pushes the important things and loses the "candy".

Also, hitting the SSL buss comp from the get-go has alot to do with controlling the spikes in a mix. When set correctly you can really ride elements in a mix without creating any weird spikes and peaks that limit your mix's loudness potential; it's sort of compressing without hearing the compression. I love the effect for rock music. (bear in mind I have no experience with the real consoles but have used the duende and waves versions alot and this is what I discovered from my experience with those imitations, though the duende is not an imitation.. just not quite like the real deal, r so I'm told .... )
Old 11th December 2008
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Andy mixes just like any of us. He's just better at it.
Believe me Andy's mixes have peaks.

A good mastering engineer will get a mix nice and loud without completely destroying it in the process.
These guys aren't just putting an L2 on shaving off 2db and calling it a day.
Old 11th December 2008
  #8
Lives for gear
 
RCM - Ronan's Avatar
I heard an Andy Wallace mix before and after mastering. Its was almost identical except that the mastered one was a couple dB louder. They both sounded huge.
Old 11th December 2008
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
Tranny-Cap-Tube's Avatar
 

So it is him not the ME. I thought so. He must be squeezing every last bit of headroom out of the SSL. Slamming the transformers is awesome.
Old 11th December 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Edward_Vinatea's Avatar
 

Indeed the loudness starts at the mix. Every great record including the insanely loud ones follow a procedure after tracking. To separate instruments better and save headroom - each track is carved out of any unnecessary frequencies. Usually low and mid-low harmonics, sometimes high harmonics content. Then some of the fundamentals are filtered out as well to avoid masking with other instrument parts with similar frequencies. Compression is also applied to some of these tracks to tighten them up and also save headroom {especially at the bottom end}. Leveling and panning which also creates the stereo image completes the process. Obviously there is some compromise to the dynamics - but different from smacking them with a peak limiter. This is a summarized explanation of how you get real loudness but you get the idea.

Regards,
Old 11th December 2008
  #11
Gear Addict
 

That's be it slamming the transformer in the SSL, yeah right.
Old 11th December 2008
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by XLR2XLR View Post
That's be it slamming the transformer in the SSL, yeah right.
Yep. I'm sure Andy Wallace has no peaks in his mixes like everyone else.
Every drum he mixes is pre clipped and L2'd.
Then transformer-slammerized to add the final magic.
Old 11th December 2008
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
prismtheory's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I heard an Andy Wallace mix before and after mastering. Its was almost identical except that the mastered one was a couple dB louder. They both sounded huge.
Ive always wanted to hear that!
Top Mentioned Products
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Crystal Mixing and Mastering / So Much Gear, So Little Time
35
monet / So Much Gear, So Little Time
17
seb37000 / So Much Gear, So Little Time
121
Matt Hepworth / So Much Gear, So Little Time
12
matt / The Good News Channel
7

Forum Jump
Forum Jump