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Death Magnetic
Old 15th September 2008
  #61
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andsonic's Avatar
 

Apparently GH uses stems. The stems were not affected by whatever limiting occurred on the 2-bus.

I guess I need to go out & get GH if I want to hear something untouched by the loudness wars.
Old 15th September 2008
  #62
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Hopefully public awareness will finally put an end to this craziness.
Old 15th September 2008
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Hopefully public awareness will finally put an end to this craziness.
Well i doubt it if like it always happens Metallica and Rick Rubin will be nominated for a ton of Grammys including album of the year.

You know another comeback story that Rick Rubin aided in.

He will be heralded for how "raw" and uncomputerized the production is without taking into account the actual sound of it.

They will be put in the same category like Johhny Cash and the Dixie Chicks did before.

Trust me don't be shocked when it happens.
Old 15th September 2008
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Meeker View Post
It must be some type of strategy to make a record that sounds so awful nobody would want to illegally download it!

Lol.i hope no other band adopts the same strategy on retail discs so even the buyers are doomed.

The album is crap in terms of sound.when i first heard it,i thought it to be a home recording.is it?
Old 15th September 2008
  #65
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I quite like it...

I have to admit that although it is incredibly loud (I was just A/B-ing it against a mono reggae re-issue I just mastered and it nearly blew my head off!) I quite like how it sounds. OK, it's hitting the wall on almost every note except the intro of the first track, and my poor needles are melting at +3 VU...but if I take off my mastering engineer hat and put on my average punter hat it then I like the production and at low level listening I can stand it.

I am actually a Metallica fan and seeing as I'll mainly be listening in the car (don't have an iPod) I hope that its incredible loudness won't be so noticeable and won't spoil my enjoyment of the songs on the album.

I notice how everybody's naming Jensen & Rubin - I just noticed the co-mixer was Andrew Scheps, who mixed a lot of Stadium Arcadium - another album that has roundly been criticised for its heavy clipping, distortion and excessive levels. I definitely sympathise with Mr Jensen on this one.
Old 15th September 2008
  #66
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My God, this is by far the crappiest recording I've heard in quite some time. Don't these guys care about the final product? Are they so deaf from their gigs that they don't hear how bad up this sounds? Or do they just write a song, record it, start drinking beer and let the engineer finish it? This is really an insult. I guess Ted Jensen got good money for mastering it, otherwise I'm sure he would have asked for new mixes.

Plus, I don't see how it is even remotely possible to make such a crappy sounding album with such a great amount of awesome gear. I remember pics from the St. Anger recordings, and I had tears in my pants. Unbelievable, I can't seem to understand this...
Old 15th September 2008
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rappinghood View Post
OK, it's hitting the wall on almost every note except the intro of the first track, and my poor needles are melting at +3 VU...but if I take off my mastering engineer hat and put on my average punter hat it then I like the production and at low level listening I can stand it.
Now that's a glowing endorsement...heh
Old 15th September 2008
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPeters86 View Post
I guess Ted Jensen got good money for mastering it, otherwise I'm sure he would have asked for new mixes.
...
Is this a joke?
What exactly are you trying to say?
Old 15th September 2008
  #69
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Rappinghood's Avatar
 

Too right

Seriously though I'm listening on PMCs with Bryston amp in a treated room, and it does sound like a sack of sh*t with a few spanners rattling around in there...but I genuinely don't think that the average listener would even notice it was much louder or less dynamic than anything else on their mp3 player.

Thethrillfactor raises an interesting point above - there's unlikely to be the level of public backlash that we might all hope for, they're more likely to be nominated for a Grammy. So would that mean that the Powers That Be have no sense of dynamics and couldn't tell a cowbell from a cow's arse, or would it mean they can see past the super loud sound to the decent songs behind?

I'd like to think as I said before that the levels on this record won't spoil my enjoyment of the songs, but I wonder whether I'm just dreaming on that one...
Old 15th September 2008
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPeters86 View Post
I guess Ted Jensen got good money for mastering it, otherwise I'm sure he would have asked for new mixes.
of course he did, he gets paid one silver dollar for every time he presses the LOUD button, everybody knows that.
Old 15th September 2008
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rappinghood View Post
...but I genuinely don't think that the average listener would even notice it was much louder or less dynamic than anything else on their mp3 player.
With this one, I actually think average punters might notice. Have a listen to it on headphones... (as most mp3 player users will). That's where the real drama begins.


Chris:

I think everyone posting here gets that TJ didn't enjoy mastering this and that this kind of distortion was not his choice. He was just one link in the chain that led to - what is to my knowledge - the loudest and most distorted release of a major, internationel calibre artist yet. I think noone here assumes him to be the one in the chain that wanted the album to be this way... but someone did, and that's what's so puzzling. Who on earth heard it and thought it was good that way? And who, assuming that TJ at some point communicated to those in charge that the mixes are less than ideal to work with, insisted that he would have to go ahead and work with them?

I guess this thread so far has been a nice opportunity for everyone to bash the quality of the product, me included, but I for one am genuinely interested to hear how this came to be - because it is just so extreme.
Old 15th September 2008
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
With this one, I actually think average punters might notice. Have a listen to it on headphones... (as most mp3 player users will). That's where the real drama begins.
I actually can't as my headphones are kaput and my new ones are on order, but good point! No doubt I'll find it as punishing as everyone else here...
Old 15th September 2008
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
With this one, I actually think average punters might notice. Have a listen to it on headphones... (as most mp3 player users will). That's where the real drama begins.


Chris:

I think everyone posting here gets that TJ didn't enjoy mastering this and that this kind of distortion was not his choice. He was just one link in the chain that led to - what is to my knowledge - the loudest and most distorted release of a major, internationel calibre artist yet. I think noone here assumes him to be the one in the chain that wanted the album to be this way... but someone did, and that's what's so puzzling. Who on earth heard it and thought it was good that way? And who, assuming that TJ at some point communicated to those in charge that the mixes are less than ideal to work with, insisted that he would have to go ahead and work with them?

I guess this thread so far has been a nice opportunity for everyone to bash the quality of the product, me included, but I for one am genuinely interested to hear how this came to be - because it is just so extreme.
Rick Rubin and Metallica are solely responsible for the end product. They gave the directions, they approved it. They are not rookies and no one at the label can ever bully these guys into anything. Both parties are 800 pound gorillas in the music industry. These guys are smart and in control. You and I may not like their taste, but it's not a Chris Athens record. It's a metallica record and this is what they want to give the record buying public. Only Metallica and Rick know why it sounds like it does.
Old 15th September 2008
  #74
Gear addict
 

what puzzles me too is...

they may want to have the loudest record, but simply the loudness is tyring the ears so much that you have to turn it down pretty quickly. it's worse than any other record I've heard

so in the end you listen to it in an average loudness with no dynamics at all...

I didn't hear it on the radio yet but it should sound even worse through the radio stations than from cd.

if this really will get attention in the music industry and people get fed up with these levels and companies start doing dynamic records again... (very unlikely...)
Metallica will be hailed by all of us for the sound of this record haha
Old 15th September 2008
  #75
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im wondering y jensen didnt turn the project down after hearing the mixes?
(if its the money then fair enough.. i wouldnt turn it down either!! )

and if guitar hero mixes fro stems that sound fine then why wasnt the album delivered in stems for mastering?
Old 15th September 2008
  #76
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metal/rock dude walks in for the mastering-session .....

ME : Hi, you've got any reference cd out now you like .... ????

Dude : Yeh, man .. the new metallica is awesome ....

Me : sure you want it THAT loud ...

Dude : yeah man, you can't do that .....

"SOME" BIG 800 pound gorrilas really played to close to some marshall stacks ....

now please all raise your hands for Anges Young & Bon Scott ....
Old 15th September 2008
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Is this a joke?
What exactly are you trying to say?
I'm not saying anything, merely guessing and trying to find a reason why Ted Jensen, who is known as an audio purist if I'm correct, decided to deliver the songs like this. If Metallica would give me big money for it, I might do it as well, so that I could buy some new gear heh But it was not my intention to offend anyone, so sorry if I did.
Old 15th September 2008
  #78
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I think Ted will be able to sustain the lash back of this record based upon his long track record and reputation. That having been said, I am sorry but this record sounds shockingly terrible. Just when you think things can't get any worse....
Old 15th September 2008
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empire Prod View Post
I think Ted will be able to sustain the lash back of this record based upon his long track record and reputation. That having been said, I am sorry but this record sounds shockingly terrible. Just when you think things can't get any worse....
Its unfortunate his name ever got associated with it. I really do believe the damage was done before it ever got to Sterling Sound.

To answer an earlier poster, Its a small click these guys work in. To refuse a job like this could mean losing a lot of future work. I get that. Fortunately most people in the know, know of his track record and that of the others involved.
Old 15th September 2008
  #80
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Bad news, guys : on every metal forum i've read, they're all sayin' : "what a good record ! what a big sound ! " ...
This thing will become a new standard ...
Old 15th September 2008
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddigger1 View Post
Bad news, guys : on every metal forum i've read, they're all sayin' : "what a good record ! what a big sound ! " ...
This thing will become a new standard ...
On every metal forum I've read, the only people talking about the production are talking negatively about it. The people who love the album are oblivious to the production, good or bad.

Just wanted to add that I am blown away by most of the material on the album, and am very pleased to learn that Metallica is not just a legacy act... they can still rock like a mother****er. But like everyone here, I think the album is sonically unlistenable.

With headphones I can't last 2 songs. It's brutally fatiguing. The distortion (most notably on the beginning of track 3) is inexcusable. An example of a heavy album with GOOD breakup and distortion (to fit the sound and vibe of the record) is Fu Manchu's "King of the Road"... although even that is an extreme case, but still very pleasing to listen to (a.k.a. not brickwalled to hell and back). But if that's what they were trying to accomplish here, then they ****ed up big time.

That said, I like the direction Metallica is taking, but it could and should have been presented with way more power and quality.
Old 15th September 2008
  #82
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Hi!

I just bought the album today (with And Justice For All at a good price ). I just listened to it once but it seems to be really better than the previous one.

About the mastering... Does someone know how Metallica feels about what people say about it? I'm really curious to know how this can happen...
Old 15th September 2008
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaon View Post
Hi!

I just bought the album today (with And Justice For All at a good price ). I just listened to it once but it seems to be really better than the previous one.

About the mastering... Does someone know how Metallica feels about what people say about it? I'm really curious to know how this can happen...

I have no idea idea how they feel. My guess is that Lars hasn't stopped talking long enough for anyone to find out that people don't like it......

I'm sure we will hear all of the cliche stuff about (in Lars Speak) how they are trying to be different, yada yada yada, some people just don't get it, yada yada yada

I can't wait for the crazy youtube vids of him to start again
Old 15th September 2008
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaon View Post
Hi!

I just bought the album today (with And Justice For All at a good price ). I just listened to it once but it seems to be really better than the previous one.

About the mastering... Does someone know how Metallica feels about what people say about it? I'm really curious to know how this can happen...

How does it sound in direct comparison to AJFA?
Old 15th September 2008
  #85
Gear maniac
 

Death Magnetic reminds my of high school, When I got 'puppets' on vinyl back in 86, Imade a cassette copy to 'rock out to' in my cool 72 nova. I wanted it to be 'loud' so I cranked the input knob on my cassette deck (17 and didn't know better) and copied it from LP. It sounded just like DM does.

g

p.s. can we add this smiley to the collection? we can call it :metallica
Old 15th September 2008
  #86
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I haven't made it through the entire record in one listen.
It is so exhausting and fatiguing to listen to.

Put on a Strapping Young Lad album- it is so much easier to listen to- it isn't squashed but is still dynamic and soooo fking heavy.

This offering from Metallica is doing them no favours at all.
It is a pity because they are almost back on form with the material- well I'd like to think so, but to be honest it is hard to know because the mixing/mastering processing is so OTT.
Old 15th September 2008
  #87
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Masterer's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPeters86 View Post
I'm not saying anything, merely guessing and trying to find a reason why Ted Jensen, who is known as an audio purist if I'm correct, decided to deliver the songs like this. If Metallica would give me big money for it, I might do it as well, so that I could buy some new gear heh But it was not my intention to offend anyone, so sorry if I did.
He did the record because they booked him to do the record. It's very unusual for a pro to pass on any record. This is what we get paid to do. Every ME worth his salt thinks he/she is the best qualified to shepherd a record through the mastering process no matter what condition it gets delivered in. SOMEONE has to master the record. It may as well be the "best".

Ted is not known as a purist. He has a well deserved reputation as one of the most accomplished mastering engineers in the world. For what it's worth, there is a difference.

I know a lot of purists but I only know a few great mastering engineers [and the majority of them are not purists].
Old 15th September 2008
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
How does it sound in direct comparison to AJFA?
Hard for me to say as I didn't listen to AJFA for a long time but I don't really agree with people saying that Death Magnetic sounds like it. I'm talking about songs, for me AJFA is really unique, even in its sound. And it was not well perceived neither. Anyway, AJFA is probrably my personal favourite so I can't really compare with DM
Old 15th September 2008
  #89
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaon View Post
Hard for me to say as I didn't listen to AJFA for a long time but I don't really agree with people saying that Death Magnetic sounds like it. I'm talking about songs, for me AJFA is really unique, even in its sound. And it was not well perceived neither. Anyway, AJFA is probrably my personal favourite so I can't really compare with DM
I don't think it can hold AJFA's jock strap! Matellica had fn balls back then, they are just an old tired act rehashing the same ****, with some guy that yoodles instead of kicking some aiss.
Old 16th September 2008
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianshepherd View Post
It gets better - fans are now complaining the version used for "Guitar Hero" sounds better:
I can confirm this is true. In fact, the difference is so startling I just put up a blog post about it:

"Death Magnetic" sounds better in "Guitar Hero"

It has to be heard to be believed, tbh.

Ian
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