The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Whats Ted Jensen do with that Waves Linear MB? Multi-Effects Processors (HW)
Old 6th September 2008
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Whats Ted Jensen do with that Waves Linear MB?

We were doing summing buss shooutouts and while listening to various reference material, I noticed the best sounding masters where by far from Ted Jensen. Some research shows he rarely uses compression these days and almost always uses the Waves Linear MB... out of curiousity anyone know what he does with that thing? Does he do any gain reduction or does he just use it to dynamically manipulate different frequency zones of the mix? Maybe I should book him for a mastering session and ask him. I'll ask for a raise first!

Marty
Old 6th September 2008
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
Mushy's Avatar
 

I've got a session with Calbi coming up. If I see Ted in the lounge I'll ask him and report back.
Old 6th September 2008
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

great thanks! I loaded it up today to the basic Opto mastering preset and tinkered with it. After learning what the hell it did, I got a setting that sounded better ON then OFF. I am still a bit baffled by it, I had no idea how hard to push the threshold but I used my ears and got some nice results. I then bypassed it and put the mix through the regular mastering compressor and felt it affected the sound in a bad way more then the multiband. Hmmm. Maybe this Ted guy is onto something. heh Still curious to see if he even compresses with it or just uses it as a dynamic eq.

Marty
Old 6th September 2008
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Long View Post
We were doing summing buss shooutouts and while listening to various reference material, I noticed the best sounding masters where by far from Ted Jensen. Some research shows he rarely uses compression these days and almost always uses the Waves Linear MB... out of curiousity anyone know what he does with that thing? Does he do any gain reduction or does he just use it to dynamically manipulate different frequency zones of the mix? Maybe I should book him for a mastering session and ask him. I'll ask for a raise first!

Marty
I was told by the distributor of Cube-Tec plug-ins that Ted uses their multi-band (and a few other Cube-Tec plugs, too). Perhaps he uses the Waves MB also but I would seriously doubt if he uses multi-band on a regular basis.

I am currently using the Mac platform but had a PC loaner in a couple of months ago to try these plug-ins as I was (and still am) considering switching. I was very impressed with the Cube-Tec plug-ins I tried and would buy them if I switch. Some Cube-Tec plugs are available for Mac but not the "mastering" ones.

http://www.cube-tec.com/vpis/index.html

However, as any experienced ME knows, a multi-band is simply not necessary a lot (most) of the time. Furthermore, when they are used, it's often just a band or two.
Old 6th September 2008
  #5
Gear Nut
 
dcharrison's Avatar
 

Multiband vs Multitrack

I'm just a novice, but when I got my hands on a multi-band compressor, I wanted to use it everywhere. To me, it was a much more subtle way of changing the overall tone of a mix than tweeking EQ.
I piddled around with a live mix taken off the house console at a club and was amazed by how effectively you could "remix" a 2 track by targeting sub-bass, bass and vocal ranges and then setting both ends of the knee in each band to tone down some instruments and accentuate others.
That frequency range where an acoustic guitar naturally "booms" is much more gracefully tamed by limiting just that problematic frequency band. If you eq it out, you kill the inoffensive content as well. If you limit it, the problem goes away and those undertones stay put (or come forward) instead of dropping out entirely.
Likewise, on vocals, you can gate rumble on the sub bass, kill plosives on the low end, moderate sibilance on the high end and punch up articulation in the upper mids all in the same pass.
I worry that, if used with a heavy hand, multi band compressors are yet another way to reintroduce the crossover distortion that we paid thousands of dollars to eliminate in our class A amplifiers. Used with a light touch, I can't hear it, but there's a certain "grit" that builds up when you push things real hard.

Somebody run one through a scope and see if a digital crossover creates the same anomalies as an analog one. That way I'll know whether to trust my ears or not.
Old 6th September 2008
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Long View Post
We were doing summing buss shooutouts and while listening to various reference material, I noticed the best sounding masters where by far from Ted Jensen. Some research shows he rarely uses compression these days and almost always uses the Waves Linear MB... out of curiousity anyone know what he does with that thing? Does he do any gain reduction or does he just use it to dynamically manipulate different frequency zones of the mix? Maybe I should book him for a mastering session and ask him. I'll ask for a raise first!
~If~ TJ uses the Waves LMB, which sounds like rumor to me, I doubt if it's the secret to his "sound" or his success. More likely his ears and his customized analog gear.

JT
Old 6th September 2008
  #7
Lives for gear
 

I know someone that mastered with Ted and he used the waves linear MB with a touch of his tubetech compressors.

I have no clue what he was doing with it or if he uses it often.
Old 6th September 2008
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb View Post
~If~ TJ uses the Waves LMB, which sounds like rumor to me, I doubt if it's the secret to his "sound" or his success. More likely his ears and his customized analog gear.

JT
Hi Jerry, you must have misread my post. I didn't ever say I thought it was his secret to his sound. I just thought it was interesting since I never really play with multibands.

I have the pleasure of working at a job that keeps me in constant contact with many leading mix engineers and about four of them who sat in with Ted said he didn't use any compression but did use the Waves Multiband and some other cubetech plugins.

Again, i'm just curious what he does with the multi. Compression, or just messing with the levels of the different frequency zones ala dynamic eq. Regardless of whether I ever find the answer, I've been loving the Waves multiband and dcharrison had some great points about it on acoustic guitar. Can't wait to try that! Thanks

Marty
Old 6th September 2008
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet red View Post
I know someone that mastered with Ted and he used the waves linear MB with a touch of his tubetech compressors.

I have no clue what he was doing with it or if he uses it often.
If anyone is there and is interested, they should just ask him.

You can't really tell what's going on just looking at a computer display. For instance, my screen ALWAYS has the TC6000 Icon open. And usually it is the MD4 (multi-band) on display (I'm using the software Icon, not the hardware version).

What you wouldn't know, unless you know the program (or asked) , is that this particular "engine" has ALL the crossovers turned OFF (thanks for the tip, Mark Wilder!) . Therefore, a lot of the time it is being used as a volume control to attenuate the level into my analog loop.

Then if I hear a problem that I'd like to address with a MB and not eq, i.e., too much sub or maybe I want more sub, I'll add the appropriate crossover and change the gain on that. Obviously there is so much more one can do with this concept but really, I think most ME's would only activate the multi-band if they want to fix or emphasize a frequency or two (and even three!).

Maybe Chris Athens would be able to tell us if and how often Ted uses the MB and which one.

BTW, I also am a big fan of Ted's mastering work.
Old 7th September 2008
  #10
Gear Addict
 
joerod's Avatar
 

Marty, If I were you, I wouldn't make any assumptions or believe hearsay about a guy who works in a mastering room like this...


Old 7th September 2008
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

I'm not making assumptions, nor is it heresay. Four different people said they were in the room with him during a session, four people said he didn't use compression, and four people said he did use the Waves Multiband. Unfortunately they were too busy loving what he was doing to actually pay attention to what he was doing with the darn plugin. To be clear again, no where in this thread will you find any of the following:

-me saying that the waves mb is ted's secret weapon

-me saying that if i learn how ted uses the waves mb I will master exactly like ted and be able to quit my job and move into a room at sterling

what you will find is:

-me asking whether Ted uses multiband compression for compression or dynamic eqing.

Thats all I'm wondering guys.

Hopefully the next post will be someone who has sat with him during a mastering session and watched how he mysteriously uses that Waves MB. Maybe Chris Athens can chime in. At the very least I've become quite the fan of the Waves Linear MB..

Marty
Old 7th September 2008
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Long View Post
Hi Jerry, you must have misread my post. I didn't ever say I thought it was his secret to his sound. I just thought it was interesting since I never really play with multibands.

I have the pleasure of working at a job that keeps me in constant contact with many leading mix engineers and about four of them who sat in with Ted said he didn't use any compression but did use the Waves Multiband and some other cubetech plugins.

Again, i'm just curious what he does with the multi. Compression, or just messing with the levels of the different frequency zones ala dynamic eq. Regardless of whether I ever find the answer, I've been loving the Waves multiband and dcharrison had some great points about it on acoustic guitar. Can't wait to try that! Thanks
Well color me surprised!
Interesting stuff Marty, sounds like you have a reliable source.
I guess TJ is as TJ does.

I've had the Waves LMB for a few years, but I never really use it.
Back in the mid '90s I used an early MultiBand Compressor plug-in for Mac, "MDT"and got some decent results with it... I know, ancient history <(:-)~

Best Regards - JT
Old 7th September 2008
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Long View Post
what you will find is:

-me asking whether Ted uses multiband compression for compression or dynamic eqing.
Quite possibly. Sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Long View Post
Hopefully the next post will be someone who has sat with him during a mastering session and watched how he mysteriously uses that Waves MB.
But that's just it - there's likely nothing mysterious about it. Curiosity..? ok, sure.
Old 7th September 2008
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
chopstickkk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
Marty, If I were you, I wouldn't make any assumptions or believe hearsay about a guy who works in a mastering room like this...


wait a minute. that gear in the racks is 2d.
Old 7th September 2008
  #15
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by chopstickkk View Post
wait a minute. that gear in the racks is 2d.
Maybe Joerod is going to comment on the reflections from the gear racks.

Alistair
Old 7th September 2008
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Masterer's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I don't know and I don't care [I don't mean that dismissively, I mean it matter-of-fact-ly]. We don't talk about that kinda stuff much at Sterling. One of the things that happens when you get a bunch of mastering engineers with that level of experience in one place is that none of us really gives a crap what the other guy is doing, so it rarely comes up in conversation [in other words, every one of us thinks he knows best!]. Ted and I talk about the Super Bowl Champion NY Giants [sorry Blackwood, Tampa Bay... c'mon dude, seriously!] and country life and other human stuff like that.

The only thing I can tell you is that Ted changes his plug ins pretty frequently and doesn't rely on one thing too much, which is pretty similar to the rest of the crew there to the best of my knowledge. The only relative constants are the analog chain and his ears [and some smokin' mixes from TLA don't hurt neither].

Sorry I couldn't give you the answer you were looking for. Maybe you should ask Ted.
Old 7th September 2008
  #17
Gear Addict
 
joerod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Maybe Joerod is going to comment on the reflections from the gear racks.

Alistair
Alistair, there are no bad reflections whatsoever. The speakers are *way* in the background and not in front of the racks which by the way stand at low level on each side of his chair.

The other detail you miss is that the room is NOT square. Happy now?
Old 7th September 2008
  #18
Lives for gear
 
MASSIVE Master's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
Alistair, there are no reflections whatsoever. The speakers are *way* in the background and not in front of the racks which by the way stand at low level on each side of his chair.

The other detail you miss is that the room is NOT square. Happy now?
Of course there are reflections. Why wouldn't there be? If there is a surface, there are reflections from that surface. The fact that the room isn't square doesn't mean there are no reflections either.

Every room has reflections... Whether those reflections make the room unsuitable for its intended use is another story.
Old 7th September 2008
  #19
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
The other detail you miss is that...
... I am having a go at you for something you wrote in another thread. I hoped you would see the humour.

Alistair
Old 8th September 2008
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
I don't know and I don't care [I don't mean that dismissively, I mean it matter-of-fact-ly]. We don't talk about that kinda stuff much at Sterling.
Fair enough. Well you ain't no slouch in the mastering department, and hell, you're right here, so I'll ask you.

Do you like to use MB compression and if so, can you give any advice on using one in a mastering environment? Also whats your favorite final LOUDNER(tm) plugin for the final db or two? I've been shooting out limiters all morning and can't find one that doesn't suck more then just doing the whole thing via clipping. The problem I'm having with doing it ALL via clipping is you really have to tuck in your kick so it doesn't distort... anyway.. thanks Chris! Great to be able to have you here!

Marty
Old 8th September 2008
  #21
Lives for gear
 
phild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
I don't know and I don't care [I don't mean that dismissively, I mean it matter-of-fact-ly]. We don't talk about that kinda stuff much at Sterling.
You don't care because you win shootouts with him. It's the rest of us that want to know!
Old 8th September 2008
  #22
Lives for gear
 
phild's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Long View Post
I'm not making assumptions, nor is it heresay. Four different people said they were in the room with him during a session, four people said he didn't use compression, and four people said he did use the Waves Multiband. Unfortunately they were too busy loving what he was doing to actually pay attention to what he was doing with the darn plugin.
For sure! I really think his LinMB use (and the few others I've seen) shines because his hardware front end sounds especially good. It compliments the other stuff he uses. So many people give MB a hard time but when the bulk of the shaping is done (done right), technically, MB use should be easy. I personally get more worried when ME's default to compression on everything or have more compressors than EQ's.

The LinMB probably helps him to get that sound he is so well known for.
Old 8th September 2008
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Masterer's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Long View Post
Fair enough. Well you ain't no slouch in the mastering department, and hell, you're right here, so I'll ask you.

Do you like to use MB compression and if so, can you give any advice on using one in a mastering environment? Also whats your favorite final LOUDNER(tm) plugin for the final db or two? I've been shooting out limiters all morning and can't find one that doesn't suck more then just doing the whole thing via clipping. The problem I'm having with doing it ALL via clipping is you really have to tuck in your kick so it doesn't distort... anyway.. thanks Chris! Great to be able to have you here!

Marty
I went through a faze when I got my first [software] MB comp. Getting a new processor is a lot like falling in love. You can't get enough at first but after a while you start to notice some things that maybe you don't love so much. I used the **** out of it at first but now I respect it for what it does well and use it more thoughtfully. It's certainly an interesting tool but I'm personally over my little crush [excuse the pun].

For the record I tend to use the Waves, PSP, and Algorhithmix stuff at the moment but only cause it's what I have and in my opinion the **** is all the same anyway... for the most part... especially limiters. I don't really ever like using them but they are a necessary evil sometimes.
Old 8th September 2008
  #24
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Maybe Joerod is going to comment on the reflections from the gear racks.

Alistair
Haha, 2D gear is the newest trend to avoid reflections.. didn't you know? Oh, wait..
Old 8th September 2008
  #25
Lives for gear
 
ONDRAY's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post
Marty, If I were you, I wouldn't make any assumptions or believe hearsay about a guy who works in a mastering room like this...



Who ever did this has too much time on their hands. The whole room looks fake, no? This is past gear slutting, this is gear obsessed. I don't think this would make for a good mastering studio anyway, to many BAD reflections, what's up with that huge window in the primary reflection point anyway.

Edit: Is this actually Ted's studio, I'm lost??? this threads confusing.


.
Old 8th September 2008
  #26
Gear Addict
 
joerod's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ONDRAY View Post
Who ever did this has too much time on their hands. The whole room looks fake, no? This is past gear slutting, this is gear obsessed. I don't think this would make for a good mastering studio anyway, to many BAD reflections, what's up with that huge window in the primary reflection point anyway.

Edit: Is this actually Ted's studio, I'm lost??? this threads confusing.


.
Yep, this is his studio. The window is in the background, but by then any "bad" reflections are way too weak to bounce back....(I think).
Old 8th September 2008
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Masterer's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ONDRAY View Post
Who ever did this has too much time on their hands. The whole room looks fake, no? This is past gear slutting, this is gear obsessed. I don't think this would make for a good mastering studio anyway, to many BAD reflections, what's up with that huge window in the primary reflection point anyway.

Edit: Is this actually Ted's studio, I'm lost??? this threads confusing.


.
Yeah, that's basically his setup. The rooms at Sterling are all built the same way for the most part, huge window in the "primary reflection point" and all.

All the rooms sound pretty damn good, as one would imagine.
Old 8th September 2008
  #28
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
I went through a faze when I got my first [software] MB comp. Getting a new processor is a lot like falling in love. You can't get enough at first but after a while you start to notice some things that maybe you don't love so much.
Amen! I could easily say that about a lot of hardware or software that come thru my room. I always find my way back to my "foundation".
Old 8th September 2008
  #29
Lives for gear
 
ONDRAY's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Yeah, that's basically his setup. The rooms at Sterling are all built the same way for the most part, huge window in the "primary reflection point" and all.

All the rooms sound pretty damn good, as one would imagine.
that's pretty awesome then., thanks
Old 8th September 2008
  #30
Gear Addict
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Yeah, that's basically his setup. The rooms at Sterling are all built the same way for the most part, huge window in the "primary reflection point" and all.

All the rooms sound pretty damn good, as one would imagine.
No room envy. No gear envy. No client envy.
Talk of country life and football .
Go into your suite, twiddle the knobs, listen, twiddle some more.
Edit and sequence. Burn a couple of refs.
Give the work order and the discs to the studio manager, wait for a check with your cut.
My idea of heaven.

Joe
Top Mentioned Products
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Analog / Mastering forum
693
Rockman / Mastering forum
17
Confusionator / Music Computers
5
pitman / Music Computers
3

Forum Jump
Forum Jump