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Limiter comparisons (with sound)
Old 28th March 2009
  #151
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurveillanceP View Post
With the utmost respect to lager- setting the same settings and uploading the various samples isn't always so great- they are all coded differently with slightly different design intentions.
I think you missed something eassential in my first post. We're evaluating by aiming for the same RMS, not the same settings - the latter wouldn't work of course.

Quote:
Also- testing limiters at their extremes is all well and good but... Then other variables emerge once you get outside the theory dome. Radio orbans? Home Speakers? Myspace encoding....
Sure, but it's not possible to include things such as the enormous varieties in radio processing in a test like this. We're dealing with how a 16 bit WAV master sounds. For the best sound in radio you probably shouldn't even come near this amount of digital brickwall limiting to begin with!

Quote:
Thread is awesome- I've learnt alot- but I think it needs to be taken in context and not in a lets-pick-a-winner basis
Actually I think there are several winners, not just one. At least 3-4 limiters seem to do the job quite well in different ways, and you probably need at least 2 of them in your arsenal for mastering.

These kind of tests can also be misleading, indeed. E.g. the Waves L2 doesn't do too well in this test, but it can actually do quite nice in other situations, especially when not used as the single method of transient reduction.

Even though most mastering engineers wouldn't claim they're coloring their tracks with the limiter (but rather with equalizers and choice of compressors), the limiter choice can add some color too.
Old 29th March 2009
  #152
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I've never heard a limiter that doesn't screw something up.

To me, it's about choosing your poison wisely for doing the least musical harm. Less sonic harm but more musical harm can be a real problem.
Old 29th March 2009
  #153
Gear Maniac
 

ech I did misread it- thanks for the correction, and the elucidation
Old 12th April 2009
  #154
Here for the gear
 

where can i find the audio files?
Old 14th April 2009
  #155
Lives for gear
 
Table Of Tone's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I've never heard a limiter that doesn't screw something up.

To me, it's about choosing your poison wisely for doing the least musical harm. Less sonic harm but more musical harm can be a real problem.
Well said!
Old 14th April 2009
  #156
Gear Nut
 
RDMS's Avatar
 

Give the MPL-1 Pro SE from Kjaerhus a try.... My personal favourite. VERY adjustable and nice metering.

Kjaerhus Audio - Professional Audio Plug-ins
Old 20th April 2009
  #157
March 2009 bandwidth on my server topped 7 Gigs! Wow! Guess which file is the culprit?

Enjoy it guys.
Old 21st April 2009
  #158
Audio Alchemist
 
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7 Gigs is what my server pulls each day!
Old 22nd April 2009
  #159
pmx
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Verified Member
Quote:
7 Gigs is what my server pulls each day!
next to creating a master and mp3's, you've started providing the torrents too? :D
Old 22nd April 2009
  #160
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Heh heh, close but no cigar.
Old 16th July 2009
  #161
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Slash View Post
The web design, and the plugin's GUI make me feel bad .

Sorry.

I know a good designer who can work for it if you want .

I might hire a webdesigner. In the mean time, I have updated the plugins, they are now released at MuslimNur.
Since we do not have demoversions, and have not planned to release demoversions either, I can provide some wav files, so you can compare yourself.

As several masteringengineers know, pushing the level isn't improving the recording. So I am providing two files, one hi-fi master, and one maximal loudness.

Limiter in it's preset state:
www.muslimnur.com/tmp/X24_hifi16.wav

Limiter set to maximize loudness:
www.muslimnur.com/tmp/X24_loud16.wav

Additionally, I used our compressor, set to levelling, before the limiter.

Dithering is by Logic's PowR#2.

Last edited by MuslimNur; 16th July 2009 at 05:48 PM.. Reason: -
Old 17th July 2009
  #162
Lives for gear
I only have Sonnox, Ozone, L2 and L3.

Sonnox: I can say that Sonnox lets the most detail through and somehow is also the loudest! Maybe a tad bright, probably best applied sparingly.

Ozone: As good as Sonnox with a warmer character. Gets muddy easily, but in a grungy 90's Soundgarden/Nirvana kinda way. Harmonic exciter has more options and can add some nicer sparkle than the Sonnox "enhance" slider.

L2: Sounds like the guassian blur filter in photoshop looks. Works if you want really really breathy tracks, kinda sounds like a ghetto radio station commercial at primetime... loud but boomy and irritating, but when you turn down the volume, your tracks sound really wimpy and quiet. Breathy is the best word.

L3: Sounds like the smudge tool in photoshop looks. Really really sucks for mastering. Might fix a crappy bass or guitar performance though.

Bottom line: Both Sonnox and Ozone are indespensible mastering tools for the project studio. I know people who master with Ozone, and then tell people it cost them $1000 to have their CD mastered. Personally I like Sonnox. Just don't overuse any Limiter or you will lose your battle in the loudness war. Transparency is key. Warmth is not transparent, and neither is brightness! That said, I suck at mastering and I just use these on my mix bus to make my clients feel like they are getting bigger bang for the buck.


PS: The WaveArts limiter also makes a nice finishing touch to smooth out that last half a db after an Ozone or Sonnox on the bus. Takes the bite away, but you will end up like L3 if you are not carefull...and your sound will be roadkill.
Old 17th July 2009
  #163
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMS View Post
Give the MPL-1 Pro SE from Kjaerhus a try.... My personal favourite. VERY adjustable and nice metering.

Kjaerhus Audio - Professional Audio Plug-ins

The free Master Limiter from Kajerhaus really rocks. Sounds like a vintage 70's unit, gives a nice Led-Zepplin sound to everything. I like the free compressor too, kinda reminds me of the dBx sound. Actually all of their free plugins are pretty good..... prob better than the ones that come with most DAW's.
Old 28th July 2009
  #164
Here for the gear
 

Beta

Here's a soundexample from my overlimiting test, with the current beta, also. A lot of improvements are coming! I think I am really pushing the boundaries of what can be done with limiting here. The beta, will probably be perfected in a months time.

www.muslimnur.com/Monotheist/roadmap(beta_overlimiting_test).wav
Old 28th July 2009
  #165
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuslimNur View Post
Here's a soundexample from my overlimiting test, with the current beta, also. A lot of improvements are coming! I think I am really pushing the boundaries of what can be done with limiting here. The beta, will probably be perfected in a months time.

www.muslimnur.com/Monotheist/roadmap(beta_overlimiting_test).wav

fuuck
Old 30th July 2009
  #166
Aggressive dynamic usually PL-2, Lavry gold and Hardware L2.
sometimes the pl-2, Elephant 2 or ozone3
just for few things I use PL-2 with soft limit +3 on the gold.
I'm not that fan to add anything in the box.
Old 30th July 2009
  #167
Here for the gear
 

Too much weirdos, on the internet. Anyway, I did some more testing, I can share another version, which is not that overlimited, and a more current beta.

This is an already processed track, but by only running it through the limiter, it seems to improve, and correct the peaks. I gained +5.5dB's here. In other words, overlimiting actually improved the sound!

www.muslimnur.com/Monotheist/Grandeur.wav

This is very good stuff. Actually, to progess I need to do some room correction etc here. So I will be working on that in the mean time, and see if later, I can finetune small things.


Old 30th July 2009
  #168
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miro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuslimNur View Post
Here's a soundexample from my overlimiting test, with the current beta, also. A lot of improvements are coming! I think I am really pushing the boundaries of what can be done with limiting here. The beta, will probably be perfected in a months time.

www.muslimnur.com/Monotheist/roadmap(beta_overlimiting_test).wav


are you serious?
Old 31st July 2009
  #169
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuslimNur View Post
This is very good stuff. Actually, to progess I need to do some room correction etc here. So I will be working on that in the mean time, and see if later, I can finetune small things.
I don't think fine tuning will do the trick. The mix sounds completely distorted, has major issues with phase, eq, stereo image (=mono, on purpose?) and general balancing.
Old 31st July 2009
  #170
Here for the gear
 

Lets listen to these people instead.

www.muslimnur.com/tmp/Norwegian_Royksopp-unprocessed.wav
www.muslimnur.com/tmp/Norwegian_Royksopp-extreme_limiting.wav

Btw you can buy the final version on the webpage now.

Peace Be With You!
Old 31st July 2009
  #171
Lives for gear
 
miro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuslimNur View Post
Lets listen to these people instead.

www.muslimnur.com/tmp/Norwegian_Royksopp-unprocessed.wav
www.muslimnur.com/tmp/Norwegian_Royksopp-extreme_limiting.wav

Btw you can buy the final version on the webpage now.

Peace Be With You!
how many more examples dude??
first ones did, this one did and probably the next examples will sound like crap aswell! whats the point? any limiter could be driven with -10dB gain reduction sounding like this crap (but probably even better!). that is not what a limiter is made for unless you are 15 years old and think "wow, that's cool"

nice that you are able to make an own plugin but get REAL....come back in few years again!

Old 31st July 2009
  #172
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuslimNur View Post
Lets listen to these people instead.

www.muslimnur.com/tmp/Norwegian_Royksopp-unprocessed.wav
www.muslimnur.com/tmp/Norwegian_Royksopp-extreme_limiting.wav

Btw you can buy the final version on the webpage now.

Peace Be With You!


No offence meant at all but you really need to work a bit more on that limiter. At least according to your examples, it's worse than a lot of freeware.

Anyhow, good luck with the sales.

Cheers!
bManic
Old 4th August 2009
  #173
Gear Nut
 

This reminds me of a dude on KVr a few years ago. He tried to sell a one-knob limiter for 350(!)euro's.
Old 7th August 2009
  #174
Here for the gear
 

Just curious.

Has anyone used the W1 limiter which is free.

I have and could not believe how much increase in DB it could handle.
It seemed to beat every other limiter I tried to quite an extent.
Coloration wasnt an issue so maybe it lacks there - but I was able to increase up to 20 db on tracks and the sound did not fall apart

In my limited experiences with the Sonnox limiter - it is very good at maintaining height and clarity so worked great in world-classical music.

This is a great thread





Mirosonic - Official Site - Home
Old 7th August 2009
  #175
Lives for gear
 
miro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIROSONIC View Post
Just curious.

Has anyone used the W1 limiter which is free.

I have and could not believe how much increase in DB it could handle.
It seemed to beat every other limiter I tried to quite an extent.
Coloration wasnt an issue so maybe it lacks there - but I was able to increase up to 20 db on tracks and the sound did not fall apart

In my limited experiences with the Sonnox limiter - it is very good at maintaining height and clarity so worked great in world-classical music.

This is a great thread





Mirosonic - Official Site - Home

i think it's ppc only for mac so couldn't try....but hey..you can't beat the superduper ultra turbo limiter by the guy few posts before (muslimnur?)
that thing crushes every high end limiter!!
Old 7th August 2009
  #176
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miro View Post
i think it's ppc only for mac so couldn't try....but hey..you can't beat the superduper ultra turbo limiter by the guy few posts before (muslimnur?)
that thing crushes every high end limiter!!
The w1 limiter was the only one used on my 3002 AD track at Mirosonic - Official Site - Home on tracks and master channel and mastering.
I did the track on LOGIC 5 PC and now have LOGIC 8 on MAC and am pretty upset that the guy did not make a version for Mac Pro.

Mind you somehow when I tried it on my attempts at house music it did not work as well (nor did the house music), So I guess maybe certain limiters are suited to different styles.

I love the Sonnox Limiter and Ozone
Old 7th August 2009
  #177
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miro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIROSONIC View Post
The w1 limiter was the only one used on my 3002 AD track at Mirosonic - Official Site - Home on tracks and master channel and mastering.
I did the track on LOGIC 5 PC and now have LOGIC 8 on MAC and am pretty upset that the guy did not make a version for Mac Pro.

Mind you somehow when I tried it on my attempts at house music it did not work as well (nor did the house music), SO I guess maybe certain limiters are suited to different styles.
can you upload a clip here so i/we can download and see the waveform aswell? is it the track at the beginning in the player on start page? sounds like from the 90's


P.S. my suggestion about the other limiter was just a joke!
Old 7th August 2009
  #178
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miro View Post
can you upload a clip here so i/we can download and see the waveform aswell? is it the track at the beginning in the player on start page? sounds like from the 90's


P.S. my suggestion about the other limiter was just a joke!
yep in the player, the piece is confused like me. It is Rave but with the futuristic twist in the beat.
Better not continue about it or otherwise I might get red carded for hijacking the thread.
Will Pm you . No joke, where I live 1/4 to half the city has their internet not working properly for a few days while many many many many technicians are trying to fix the problem, so uploading cannot happen at the moment.
It takes forever for a page on Gearsluts to download.
Old 8th August 2009
  #179
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIROSONIC View Post
Just curious.

Has anyone used the W1 limiter which is free.

I have and could not believe how much increase in DB it could handle.
It seemed to beat every other limiter I tried to quite an extent.
Coloration wasnt an issue so maybe it lacks there - but I was able to increase up to 20 db on tracks and the sound did not fall apart

In my limited experiences with the Sonnox limiter - it is very good at maintaining height and clarity so worked great in world-classical music.

This is a great thread





Mirosonic - Official Site - Home
It's 100% identical output to Waves L1, the original thing that started this whole trend.

IMHO it's not very good. It kills transients pretty quickly (with even 1dB of limiting it is noticeable). It can be quite gluey, so if that's your thing then I understand but if you want to stay true to the input material then there are many much better options out there (freeware included).

The top freeware transparent limiter, in my opinion, is one that was released just a little while ago on KvR, called simply LoudMax. You can find the thread here.

You can't get it very loud but for just a few dB of limiting it is extremely clean with minimal distortion (aka, it sounds less harsh than most other limiters) while still having a reasonably fast response time.

Cheers!
bManic
Old 9th August 2009
  #180
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
I don't think the W1 is identical to the L1, where did you get that information? Did you do a null test?

I remember listening to the W1 and it didn't sound anything like the L1 to me back then.
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