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Turn me up.org Plugin Presets/Expansions
Old 8th September 2007
  #1
Old 8th September 2007
  #2
a great initiative !!


Old 8th September 2007
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Definately great initiative!

Do you know yet what kind of levels we are talking about to get the TMU mark?
Old 8th September 2007
  #4
A certification scheme is a great idea. I'd look forward to being able to proudly display a Turn Me Up badge, rather than be seen as shying away or 'losing' the loudness wars. Good start!
Old 8th September 2007
  #5
First i thought, we (mastering engineers) will still be the ones to convince artists and i wondered how proposing this TMU thing will make any difference.

But then: It's all about trying to set a standard for once.

Meanwhile avoiding the word 'standard' to the (iherently) differentiating artist

Ambitious, but worth a try - everytime!

Peter
Old 8th September 2007
  #6
Lives for gear
 
MASSIVE Master's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Excitedly bookmarked for further study. Thanks!
Old 8th September 2007
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Verified Member
Looks like I great idea. Go get em, Bob!
Dave
Old 8th September 2007
  #8
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
 

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Nice one Bob ... can you explain your progress on the certification of a single song?
Old 8th September 2007
  #9
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob katz View Post
Interesting stuff Bob.

Getting organized with a logo, stickers, and media campaign could raise public awareness of the issue, and present an alternative.

I'll gladly join the list of mastering facilities...

But clients will still get their record cut here at what ever level they ask for...

After all, we're a service business in a free market economy.

I think I'll go to the movies today and ~not~ sit on the front row.

JT
Old 8th September 2007
  #10
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I would also like to see more dynamics retained in modern masters, and applaud the effort, but do you really think this will make a difference?

Why isn't there already an option for artists to create a more dynamic record, simply because they feel the need to compete? The mission statement and disclaimer arguments seem flawed to me.

"The purpose of this notice is to give artists the choice to release a more dynamic record, and to inform the consumer that nothing is wrong—all they need to do is Turn Me Up!"

Haven't artists always had this choice? Maybe in some instances the labels have dictated a less dynamic record, but when you sign you either make provisions in your contract for artistic control, compromise and take the good with the bad, or don't sign. Those are choices. I think that telling consumers about the need to turn up a CD that's lower in volume is just a bit pretentious.

Have parental advisory warning labels had any impact? If anything they seem to have promoted the inverse. How many warning and certification labels do we really need?

If there were warning labels on loud CDs stating that "listening to this record at normal levels may cause hearing damage" were required it might have a bigger impact, but I tend to doubt that as well.
Old 8th September 2007
  #11
Mastering
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommi Inkila View Post
Definately great initiative!

Do you know yet what kind of levels we are talking about to get the TMU mark?
I've just joined the organization and they've invited me to be on the advisory committee. It's a non-confrontational approach and I honestly don't know how we're going to "draw the line". Expect some controversy for the many albums that are "on the line". Stand by, maybe within a month we'll have some guidelines that are worth publishing. I hope I'm not being optimistic about this. Maybe for controversial albums we have to have an assenting vote from the majority of the members?
Old 8th September 2007
  #12
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Masterer's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb View Post
I think I'll go to the movies today and ~not~ sit on the front row.
LOL
Old 8th September 2007
  #13
Mastering
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsnare View Post
Looks like I great idea. Go get em, Bob!
Dave
It's not my idea. I just joined. I believe that Charles Dye is the progenitor and I applaud him for coming up with a fine idea with a good logo and a nice touch. We shall see.

As for the objections elsewhere in this thread that this option has always been tried, the object is the publicity and the logo that comes along with the certification. It attracts attention and makes people think. Will "Turn Me Up" change or help change anything? Only time will tell. Jerry is absolutely correct that artists will continue to demand what they demand, however, the presence of such an organization and a certification may help some artists to make a decision they might not otherwise have made. We shall see! Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Old 8th September 2007
  #14
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masteringhouse's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob katz View Post
As for the objections elsewhere in this thread that this option has always been tried, the object is the publicity and the logo that comes along with the certification. It attracts attention and makes people think. Will "Turn Me Up" change or help change anything? Only time will tell. Jerry is absolutely correct that artists will continue to demand what they demand, however, the presence of such an organization and a certification may help some artists to make a decision they might not otherwise have made. We shall see! Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Just for clarity no objections here. I've just found that evolution usually has a more profound effect than publicity. But then, maybe this publicity campaign will have an affect on the evolutionary process of how music is produced, hopefully for the better.

Only time knows...
Old 8th September 2007
  #15
Registered User
 

Was a no-brainer for me to join. Thanks for letting us know, Bob!
Old 8th September 2007
  #16
Gearslutz.com admin
 
Jules's Avatar
As they are non profit and I dig the audio related cause, I offered them free ad banner space on GS.. I sent them an email..

Old 8th September 2007
  #17
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bcgood's Avatar
 

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Great idea, I'll be watching and listening. The audience is listening...
Old 8th September 2007
  #18
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gainstages's Avatar
I have a solo and a band album coming out next year, and i know that i'm going to want to have both of them "certified". i think this is great and I am looking forward to the additional tools to help make people more aware of this.

in the meantime, i'll continue to crush my clients music if that is what they want, but (as always) i'll continue to offer the alternative - a loud, but still dynamic track that has room to breathe.
Old 9th September 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by masteringhouse View Post
If there were warning labels on loud CDs stating that "listening to this record at normal levels may cause hearing damage" were required it might have a bigger impact, but I tend to doubt that as well.
Actually, imo, dynamic CDs are more dangerous than squished CD's. If all CD's are squished to maximum volume, the listener will back the volume down. This **** is fatiguing enough. (Doesn't mean they aren't frying their ear-drums with exessive levels, but at least they won't get caught out with sudden jumps in dBs).

It's the dynamic records that should have a warning label. These are the ones that lull you into cranking the volume, only to have your ears assulted on the loud bits (or the next squished song).

The general public are morons. I believe in negative psychology. Tell the morons that something is dangerous, or that they shouldn't have it, and they will desire this more than anything else.

So I would propose that a Warning label be designed for these dynamic CDs - not the other way around.
Old 9th September 2007
  #20
Mastering
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger View Post
Actually, imo, dynamic CDs are more dangerous than squished CD's. If all CD's are squished to maximum volume, the listener will back the volume down. This **** is fatiguing enough. (Doesn't mean they aren't frying their ear-drums with exessive levels, but at least they won't get caught out with sudden jumps in dBs).

It's the dynamic records that should have a warning label. These are the ones that lull you into cranking the volume, only to have your ears assulted on the loud bits (or the next squished song).
Huh? When was the last song you played so dynamic that the loud bits assaulted you after you played its soft bits? It's a pretty rare pop album around here that has that problem! On the contrary, my biggest complaint is the number of pop records that aren't dynamic enough!

As for loud records blasting you after playing a dynamic one, that's been true for years, and is an issue not of dynamics directly (though indirectly), but of the fact that the compact disc and digital audio in general has no standard loudness.

BK
Old 9th September 2007
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
simplecarnival's Avatar
 

I like this idea... Perhaps some too-squashed major label albums could have re-releases as "turn me up" versions. It'd probably sound better than a lot of modern remasters.

As an aside, as far as major label stuff goes, I mostly buy old vinyl nowadays... not that I think vinyl is superior to CDs (let's not go there), but modern CDs are often too fatiguing to listen to the whole way through -- even if the music is good.
Old 9th September 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
As for loud records blasting you after playing a dynamic one, that's been true for years, and is an issue not of dynamics directly (though indirectly), but of the fact that the compact disc and digital audio in general has no standard loudness.
Well the industry certainly has a standard now - smashed up against the brick wall.

You missed my point. I am not arguing for less dynamics - I hate the smashed crap that professional ME's are putting out now.

I was arguing about the marketing strategy of wanting warning labels applied to loud CD's. That would only make them more appealing to morons.

I'm just saying that one way to get morons to desire dynamic CD's is to make they appear more "dangerous". Truth has nothing to do with marketing.

I would have to go back to Dire Straits to find some dynamics that could possibly be dangerous with loud headphones.
Old 9th September 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Good to hear from you Mr.Katz! How is the secound edition coming along , I am ready to read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 9th September 2007
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
This all comes down to the moment a consumer hears a record, and the fear that if the record is more dynamic, the consumer won't know to just turn up the volume

DAMMMM , That's what that knob is for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!tutt



What a insane situation!!! META DATA PLEASE
Old 9th September 2007
  #25
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Watersound's Avatar
 

This is great, I am releasing a record about a year from now and have been contemplating how I will explain the lower levels, since I am not going to squash all the life out of it. This just may be the ticket...I like the logo!! Good to see you back Bob.
Old 9th September 2007
  #26
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Masterer's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger View Post
... I hate the smashed crap that professional ME's are putting out now.
ME's don't put crap out, record lablels do.
Old 9th September 2007
  #27
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DSD_Mastering's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob katz View Post
Huh? When was the last song you played so dynamic that the loud bits assaulted you after you played its soft bits?BK
The last promotional Ray Kimber ISOMIKE SACD. You have to ride the volume knob like a fader! Awesome!!
Graemme Brown mastered the album and didn't use any compression.

Regards,
Bruce
Old 9th September 2007
  #28
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
ME's don't put crap out, record lablels do.
Exactly!

We're finally getting some allies, a welcome change after ten years of preaching to the choir about this subject.
Old 9th September 2007
  #29
Mastering
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwiburger View Post
Well the industry certainly has a standard now - smashed up against the brick wall.

You missed my point. I am not arguing for less dynamics - I hate the smashed crap that professional ME's are putting out now.

I was arguing about the marketing strategy of wanting warning labels applied to loud CD's. That would only make them more appealing to morons.
I apologize. I got confused by your language. I had gotten the impression you were advocating warning labels on the dynamic CDs. My bad...

BK
Old 9th September 2007
  #30
Mastering
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatfinger View Post
Good to hear from you Mr.Katz! How is the secound edition coming along , I am ready to read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, is that an invitation for a digression from this thread :-). The second edition is a whopper, it contains about 50% new information, is entirely newly organized, even easier to follow, more sequential (like a record album) and very exciting. Will be out in time for the AES Convention in October. Thanks very much for the comments, but please let's not hijack this thread. Everyone who's interested go over to Turn Me Up.org and register your support!!!!


BK
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