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Anyone here avoiding the L2? Dynamics Plugins
Old 9th September 2007
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Boyd View Post
After an extremely brief honeymoon with L3, I came to the conclusion that L2 does an overall better job. I think you'll find similar opinions here and on other boards.
Same here with the odd exception of a down and dirty job where the sibilance or cymbals or? needs automation on different parts of a song. So if its just a quickie job, and changing one or two bands helps, this a fast way to get it done.
Old 9th September 2007
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Boyd View Post
After an extremely brief honeymoon with L3, I came to the conclusion that L2 does an overall better job. I think you'll find similar opinions here and on other boards.
Yeah, I was an early adopter of the L3 (paying full $600 introductory price) and like you my "honeymoon" with it was very brief - I almost never use it now as nearly always my other options sound better, and on top of that are quicker to dial in.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 10th September 2007
  #33
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I tend to avoid the L2 unless the music specifically benefits from the L2 'sound' that is common with many styles of electronic music and hip-hop. The Weiss DS-1 is much more transparent (no more than 2dB GR) and keeps the low-mids intact. Sounds more pristine and certainly less harsh. Sometimes I use both in series...
Old 10th September 2007
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben F View Post
The Weiss DS-1 is much more transparent (no more than 2dB GR) and keeps the low-mids intact. Sounds more pristine and certainly less harsh.
agreed. The Weiss DS1-MkII's limiter can do a nice job in light gain reduction.
Old 10th September 2007
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering View Post
I got rid of my hardware L2. I just couldn't get any decent volume without it sounding harsh and brittle. It was only good for maybe 1.5dB at the most before the mix would start to break-up.
If I had to go the software route, I really like the sound of the Flux Solera/Epure/PL

Regards,
Bruce
I had the same problem with the unit I had in for testing. It sounded very harsh and brittle. When I gave it back to the tech rep he said that I should have my ears examined since no one else had heard the same things that I heard. Later he called to apologize saying that the unit developed some problems with the power supply and they had to send it back to the factory. I told them I would like to get a chance to hear it when it came back but that was two years ago and I have never gotten a return phone call. There ARE other ways to do what the L2 can do and I never missed having it.
Old 10th September 2007
  #36
Gear Nut
 
BlakeMcKibben's Avatar
 

Yup it turns out 3 out of the 4 songs benefitted from the L2 on that project I was doing. I've never thought of the L2 creatively till recently, I always just kind of used it by default. Now I'll have to look into this Weiss Limiter so I can have some options.
Old 10th September 2007
  #37
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Check out these clips too
Limiter comparisons (with sound)
Old 11th September 2007
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie c View Post
I like the L2 4 dance music!!!...

u can hit the L2 Hardware like 9db, for the same sound u get with a 3db squash in the plug...

hahaha
Old 11th September 2007
  #39
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Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Exactly..
Old 12th September 2007
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlsaff View Post
No secrets! Used to use the L2 plugin, but it seemed, to me, that UAD's Precision Limiter and Voxengo's Elephant 2 limiter could do the job a bit more nicely, leaving the low end and transients a bit more as they were in the original.

Most of my tests were such that the limiters were being pushed. I don't usually push them that hard in reality. As others here have pointed out, the work in front of the limiter usually ensures it won't need to be pushed. But how one holds up under abuse can be telling.

I'm not going to say that the L2 hardware sounds like the L2 software, because I don't have any evidence of that (and I've seen those arguments get out of control!). But in the plugin limiter world, where the OP is operating, I liked those other two limiters a bit more.
Um... I was being facetious Carl, but thanks for the effort.
In a nut-shell, I have YET to hear a software limiter beat a hardware limiter....
heh
Old 12th September 2007
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Vosgien View Post
Um... I was being facetious Carl, but thanks for the effort.
In a nut-shell, I have YET to hear a software limiter beat a hardware limiter....
heh
What software limiters have you heard? What hardware limiters are you comparing them to?

Because I have indeed heard numerous software limiters sound better than the hardware L2 for many tracks.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
Old 12th September 2007
  #42
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Fabio's Avatar
No problem with L2 Hardware here.
Max 1,5 (in general I don't like to push brickwall limiters too much)…I think that it has very nice and useful auto release and linking/unlinking functions.

Of course I also have other digital brickwall limiters to use and choose, it depends on the songs, but it’s normal…all the outboards/plugs cannot be always good for each situation and the same it’s for L2.

Besides I also use it sometimes in mix for parallel compression job (usually drums).
Old 22nd December 2007
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arf View Post
The new PSP Xenon is the one to watch in the plug-o-sphere.

thumbsup
I've been demoing this for a few days and am liking what I hear! In fact, I'm almost sold.

Of course using this is taking a lot more thought and engineering skills than needed for my hardware L2 but the manual is very helpful.

I also use the TC 6000's Brickwall from time to time but don't find it so good for loud masters. It works really well for digital gain but with the limiter engaged it's much better for lower volume/rms material (IMO).
Old 22nd December 2007
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabio View Post
No problem with L2 Hardware here.
Max 1,5 (in general I don't like to push brickwall limiters too much)…I think that it has very nice and useful auto release and linking/unlinking functions.

Of course I also have other digital brickwall limiters to use and choose, it depends on the songs, but it’s normal…all the outboards/plugs cannot be always good for each situation and the same it’s for L2.

Besides I also use it sometimes in mix for parallel compression job (usually drums).
2000 % agree here....
Old 22nd December 2007
  #45
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Keyflo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinsJan View Post
2000 % agree here....
Dont really mess with the L2 any more, im more on the sonnox limiter, even has a enhancer function
Old 22nd December 2007
  #46
Gear Addict
 

Anyone here avoiding the L2?

Anyone here avoiding the L2?

avoiding? ...ummm NO

more like: HAPPY WITHOUT IT
Old 15th April 2011
  #47
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Hmmm, seems like the L2 has a bit of a bad rep round here. I've used the L1+ and L2 for about a decade as my final software limit, and up til maybe 6 months ago would never try get more than 2 or 3 dB increase out of it (I occasionally now have to drag 3 to 4 out of it). I have in the past 4 years tried many other software limiters as I was told 'the L2 is a pig man, you should try [insert brand name limiter here], it's so much better'. So I tried out the Sonnox, PSP Xeon and Voxengo Elephant and although at first they seemed 'better' after a while they were just different from the L2.

IMO any software limiter will sound bad if you haven't done the right job to the audio before you squeeze with it, and the difference in unwanted artifacts between the different limiters will be... well, different from each other. I found the Sonnox sounded too distorted sometimes, I found the Xeon a little audible in terms of 'pumpiness' and modulation, The Elephant was nice but seemed a little dark and flat whereas the L2 to me sounded like it had a balance of all of these artifacts but to a lesser extent.

Maybe I'm just used to the sound of the Waves limiters, and I'm not going to say that the others aren't good, just that I've found that the L2 works best for me in most situations.
Old 15th April 2011
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiljoy View Post
Hmmm, seems like the L2 has a bit of a bad rep round here. I've used the L1+ and L2 for about a decade as my final software limit, and up til maybe 6 months ago would never try get more than 2 or 3 dB increase out of it (I occasionally now have to drag 3 to 4 out of it).
To my ear that's too much. I never go over 1.6, but 2 is probably okay.

Clipping + L2 has a sound I like.
Old 15th April 2011
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
To my ear that's too much. I never go over 1.6, but 2 is probably okay. Clipping + L2 has a sound I like.
Yeah, that's what I've been told but I'm able to get up to 3dB life without too much trouble. I don't really enjoy the sound of shred clipping and my A/D sound gross when it goes over too.
Old 15th April 2011
  #50
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I haven't used an L2 in like 8 or 9 years. I hate the sound of that thing. I think I had a bad sounding hardware unit and that put me off of 'em.

Dave
Old 15th April 2011
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiljoy View Post
Hmmm, seems like the L2 has a bit of a bad rep round here. I've used the L1+ and L2 for about a decade as my final software limit, and up til maybe 6 months ago would never try get more than 2 or 3 dB increase out of it
It's had a bad rap for years but I still use it often.

I never go for more than 2.

I think the L-2 got it's bad reputation because it was one of the first on the market with a reasonable price. Therefore it became a tool to just slap on at the end of the chain, then push it too hard, and call it "mastered." Someone noticed it didn't sound so good and instead of questioning the user...they blamed the tool.
Old 15th April 2011
  #52
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the L2 is my gatekeeper in 80% and the Weiss-DS1 on the other 20% I guess ...
not there as a limiter ( just catching 1.0 dB ) ... but there to keep the input on my DAW below -00.30 dB to - 00.80 dB .... somehow I like the sound of The L2 hardware & maybe just compensate the harshness with the whole chain inline with EQ ... after that I will apply if needed the limiting for level ... with different software limiters or a real-time run through the Weiss DS1 ..

So, I love my gatekeepers very much ...
Old 15th April 2011
  #53
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I can understand that the alternatives to a (hardware) L2 might be popular in days when clients expect a complete transform in return.

But then I can not understand why anyone would like a limiter that claims to preserve transients and punch...something that seems popular when marketing new "solutions".

I am about to get myself a 2:nd hardware L2 to have in spare.
Old 15th April 2011
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
the L2 is my gatekeeper in 80% and the Weiss-DS1 on the other 20% I guess ...
not there as a limiter ( just catching 1.0 dB ) ... but there to keep the input on my DAW below -00.30 dB to - 00.80 dB .... somehow I like the sound of The L2 hardware & maybe just compensate the harshness with the whole chain inline with EQ ... after that I will apply if needed the limiting for level ... with different software limiters or a real-time run through the Weiss DS1 ..

So, I love my gatekeepers very much ...
I find this interesting. With the above mentioned parameters, you can actually detect a "sound?" If I understand you correctly, it IS limiting up to 1.0db on the input to your DAW?

The only time I have noticed a L-2 sound is when it's being pushed too far.
Old 15th April 2011
  #55
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I still find the L2 winning sometimes.

As Bob Katz posted above, each has its own idea of how to work the release times and the results from each approach varies considerably depending on the program material. You need to listen for what each does well and what each screws up and choose the compromise most appropriate to the recording. Each is also totally interactive with whatever eq. and/or compression is feeding it so it isn't always as easy as trying each one with everything ahead of it left the same.
Old 15th April 2011
  #56
Gear Head
 

L2 Hardware

I have read a lot of posts on how the L2 Hardware sounds bad on gearslutz and it does if overly pushed, improperly eq'd, etc. So I tried all the demos of plugins discussed on the forum wanting them to sound better for easier level changes, etc. But I find that ALL the plugins sound weak compared to the hardware L2, TC6000 Brickwall or Weiss DS1-MkIII. But even all the best hardware can sound terrible if abused.

Just one users opinion.
Old 15th April 2011
  #57
Gear Addict
 

The L2 pushed hard kills the transients imo... at least compared to Ozone. Sure, Ozone's intelligent release may not sound as "transparent" depending upon the setting, but it certainly seems to handle the peaks better and doesn't sound as lifeless. Then again, I never turn the L2's ARC off. Ozone's intelligent release is a form of ARC but it allows you to control how aggressive the limiter works. It's far more adjustable.

Another thing that I don't like about the L2 is that you are forced to either use IDR or truncate to a 24 bit output. And since I don't like the sound of IDR at all I find myself passing up on the L2 often. It seems like old outdated technology to me and as for it being the "industry standard" I have never had a track sound "commercial" by solely slapping an L2 onto it. It can't really compare to a professional mastering job by a pro, so my suggestion is to use whatever you are comfortable with using... whether it's the L2 or some other plug in. Personally, I think Ozone is better for demos.

Besides, Waves seems to have a very arrogant attitude and doesn't seem like a company that is very helpful/responsive to their customers.
Old 15th April 2011
  #58
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I love the smell of fresh L2 truncation in the morning ...
Old 16th April 2011
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossd25 View Post
Another thing that I don't like about the L2 is that you are forced to either use IDR or truncate to a 24 bit output.
You could put any dither plug after it. no?
Old 16th April 2011
  #60
Gear Nut
 
Kiljoy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering View Post
You could put any dither plug after it. no?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure IDR is defeatable on the plug.
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