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How are you using the Weiss EQ1 MK2? Equalisers (HW)
Old 5th September 2007
  #1
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How are you using the Weiss EQ1 MK2?

I am thinking of buying one of these used (not the linear phase option one).

I'm really wanting a fairly transparent EQ for acoustic music mastering that can be surgical (narrow Q) and perhaps impart a warmth if required.

Questions are:

1. Who's using this unit and for what within their workflow?


2. Does the Weiss offer advantages of going 'out of the box' and open up the sound in the way that feeding an analogue chain would? And, if not, is there any big advantage of the Weiss over the high-end software plugs in that case?

I really thought that the ALgorithmix EQs would be a goer but I am restricted to RTAS. So I guess it's either the Weiss or a bunch plugs (e.g. PSP Neon, Sonnox etc). Anyone compared the Weiss to any of these per chance?

As the unit is 2nd hand I don't think I'll be able to try it out so all opinions most appreciated.

Cheers,
Old 5th September 2007
  #2
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hams's Avatar
There is no conversion on the EQ1, it is strictly a digital box. AES in, AES out.
Old 5th September 2007
  #3
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Sorry, my mistake. Everything is of course kept within the digital domain. Are you a user? Any opinions?
Old 5th September 2007
  #4
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the eq1 is really transparent, really powerfull : MS eq, CLEAN digital GAIN, Q on shelve (like the manley massive passive ..)7 bands, total recall ...
very very narrow Q (650!!!) don' t hesitate to get the LINEAR PHASE version ...you will never regret that choice ..
the eq you talk about (psp neon or algo red,blue) is really good one digital eq but they never be as good as the weiss one , the only with this great stereo image stability .weiss gear always satisfied me .
bonne recheche !
Old 5th September 2007
  #5
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Merci Sub-D0!!

Did you compare the Weiss directly to any of the mentioned plugs by any chance?
Old 5th September 2007
  #6
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weiss ..... used on every production overhere ... ergomics are just the BEST ....
no more mouse !!!! even boosting is OK !!! very nice cuts ...

used in the first party of the chain ..before DA ... just to prepare the track to hit the anloge gear waiting
desperattly in their sweetspots shouting ... ooooooh Yeah BABY ...

it has an M/S option .... always nice to have around ...

imho .... EQ's used so intensive .. it would run me crazy in just a few hours ... looking again
at the comp-screen and tweaking with the mouse ... maybe with a controller it will be OK ...

I never compared it to the plug-ins you mentioned ...

it's so well thougt of ..... really it always makes me smile when using it ....

you'll never look back ......

it looks cool .. plug-ins can't look cool ... they are the eye-candy you need ....
Old 5th September 2007
  #7
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Thanks for reponses so far.

It will be the non-linear phase unit that I will be buying. Are folk using the Weiss in non-LP mode at all?
Old 6th September 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
Thanks for reponses so far.

It will be the non-linear phase unit that I will be buying. Are folk using the Weiss in non-LP mode at all?
Sure, I use it in non-LP mode. Sounds great. It's still neutral, but maybe just slightly sweet. LP is great, but don't discount the non-LP mode. Definitely worth a listen.

As for workflow, when in use, it's usually in conjunction with analog processing, though occasionally I'll do an all digital path. It does the surgical stuff quite well as might be expected, but sometimes I get a broad mid or upper midrange thing out of it that works better than the analog for a particular song. And of course M/S is there when you need to do a salvage job.

And compared to the plugs you mentioned... well, there is no comparison in my book. It's still just not worth using plugs as a part of a primary mastering chain, with the possible exception of Algorithmix.
Old 6th September 2007
  #9
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I use mine mostly as inlinenl and Jay describe. Pre DA, often just cleaning the junk out of the way for the analog chain. Although keeping it all digital using only the EQ1-Mk2 is often perfectly feasible too. And, with 7 completely interchangeable bands there are plenty for shaping *and* tone control as well.

As stated, it is a marvel of functionality and ergonomics. Everything behaves naturally just as it should. And the sound is so easy. Turning a knob .2 dB *does just that*, and can be heard. Total recall for ~120 scenes... very useful.

Mine is non-LP, and I have no problems with that. And I agree M/S is a valuable tool to have available.

I will mention that Daniel Weiss is a real gentleman as well, so helpful and knowledgeable. A pleasure working with him.

So buy it.

Steve
Old 6th September 2007
  #10
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Like maybe digital eqs, I didn't like the sound of the oversampling ... used it for a year and sold it to Katz for his B room. Be sure and demo, and make sure the slight smear does bother you.
Old 6th September 2007
  #11
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The DS1 mkII is a wonderful box. I use it mainly to surgically clean up signals before or after the analogue chain, mostly in M/S mode, works a treat for vinyl masters. Sounds more transparent than any plug-in I've used with a much more ergonomic interface. However I do really like the Sony Oxford EQ, it's a little more musical, but not as transparent...

Like your Avatar by the way, really good movie!
Old 6th September 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Like maybe digital eqs, I didn't like the sound of the oversampling ... used it for a year and sold it to Katz for his B room. Be sure and demo, and make sure the slight smear does bother you.
smear does bother me, however that's not what I get fro, my Weiss.
Old 6th September 2007
  #13
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Thanks for all this info guys.

Egonomics is not something to be understated either. The thought of doing everything in front of a TFT panel is not a nice one!

Is anyone here using the onboard dither to go 16bit?

I am thinking of using the Weiss as the last component in my chain (everything ITB before then) and then EQ and dither within the Weiss and sending to my Tascam DVRA1000 to print. I am also hoping to monitor through the Tascam (Tascam to Lavry DAC). Can anyone think of a problem with this arrangement?
Old 6th September 2007
  #14
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Mosrite,

I ( imho ) would never set an EQ last in the chain .... well if the weiss is the only "outboard" then again I would consider plug-ins again ....

I would really suggest ... after the weiss go DA ... some wide-stroke analog EQ to get some analog air/bass ( nseq-2/gyratec/ibis) .. and then some nice "simple" compressor bedore going AD to the tascam .....

why you go the tascam ... just back again into the DAW I would suggest ..

accoustic music lives on some analog path .... but sometimes digital only is wanted ...

I see you do recordings on location ... is it more focussed on classical music then on "folk" music .....
I used to do location recordings ... classical pieces from barok to folk ....
now I understand the tascam ....
Old 6th September 2007
  #15
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Quote:
I ( imho ) would never set an EQ last in the chain .... well if the weiss is the only "outboard" then again I would consider plug-ins again ....
Getting an effective workflow going is part of my battle at the moment.

Limitations for me is my DAW. Only one digital out and one digital in.

So Im thinking send DAW digi out to Weiss to EQ+Dither to Tascam to print. Monitor the chain through the Tascam (and use the Weiss bypass function if Im just needing to hear whats going on within the DAW).

With this system I could do everything within the box if that's all thats needed. Or I could send to the Weiss for EQ and Dither.

Quote:
I would really suggest ... after the weiss go DA ... some wide-stroke analog EQ to get some analog air/bass ( nseq-2/gyratec/ibis) .
So to you the Weiss is most useful for corrective EQing?

Being acoustic music, limiting is minimal (at least the way I like it) so I am thinking that Limiting before the Weiss is not totally crazy especially as the boosts and cuts will be minimal. Of course I could always print the EQed material and then import back into the DAW for limiting / dither but this means I lose out on having a printed version of the finished master on DVD before I author.

Any suggestions most appreciated (as long as they don't involve suggesting getting another DAW! Pro Tools is my language and to learn another will simply slow me down for too long)
Quote:
I see you do recordings on location ... is it more focussed on classical music then on "folk" music
Classical mainly. But I will be mastering other folks material so could expect some traditional stuff through the door, but prob not rock and pop (so my priorities do not lie in expensive outboard compressors)
Old 6th September 2007
  #16
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I have been a very happy owner of a EQ1 MKII for a number of years. Just running a signal though the unit seems to make it sound better. Not sure what Lucey is referring to but the EQ1 MKII is about the cleanest sounding no artifact EQ in the world. Just did a session where it was invaluable for some broad EQ as well as a very narrow cut. Daniel is a true gentlemen and one of the world's best designers and and heck of a nice person. Not sure what your DAW is or what your mastering program is but we use Wavelab and I run the signal out of Wavelab though my rack and back into Wavelab where it is recorded. No problems.

I don't think you could make a better choice.
Old 6th September 2007
  #17
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the question is where do you gain the most quality for the end-result ...
you invested in monitors/amp ....

Reading and thinking about you're sitauation .... you will get a lot more work from going out off the box .... it's okay if you really want to develop mastering ...

a bad day on the most expensive EQ or a freaking best day on average gear will make the last situation sound the best ...

software could be OK for you ... get some restoration software for cleaning up unwanted noise in you're location recordings ... what about you're reverbs .....

is you're focus location recording or mastering ...
Old 6th September 2007
  #18
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Quote:
we use Wavelab and I run the signal out of Wavelab though my rack and back into Wavelab where it is recorded. No problems.
Hi Thomas,
So I presume you have 2 digital outs with your Wavelab system? In which case you send to a DAC and the Weiss simultaneously? I cannot do this as I only have 1 digital output hence my restrictions
Quote:
the question is where do you gain the most quality for the end-result ...
you invested in monitors/amp ...
Yep. Monitors and amp sorted. Room being worked on, but proper room with proper treatment. Now looking to the EQing side of things.

Quote:
you will get a lot more work from going out off the box
Do you include the Weiss when say 'going out of the box'?
Quote:
is you're focus location recording or mastering ..
Good question. The mastering will be for my own recordings for clients but I want to extend it as a service to others (hence the investments in room, gear etc - I do say 'hence' a lot these days it seemsheh)

Back to workflow, is it madness to limit before EQ? The Weiss will surely give me a good indication of digital overs so as not to be an issue right?
Old 6th September 2007
  #19
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mosrite

We have a zsystems router that we use to get as many digital outs as we need. There are also AES splitters which are less expensive and that is what we used for a long time with an AES/EBU patch bay that I wired up myself using Carnare cables and Neutrik connectors. The AES splitter we used was from Phase 3 ADA-204A Audio Distribution Amplifier, Dual Channel, or Stereo (1 in, 4 outputs)

Best of luck!
Old 6th September 2007
  #20
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mosrite -

If you are using RTAS I assume that you are using a Pro Tools system.

I insert the EQ1 into the signal path pre analog chain for surgical adjustments. I rarely use it as my only EQ though. I like to play it's surgical/transparent strengths against the girth and warmth of analog EQs.
Old 6th September 2007
  #21
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Quote:
mosrite

We have a zsystems router that we use to get as many digital outs as we need. There are also AES splitters which are less expensive and that is what we used for a long time with an AES/EBU patch bay that I wired up myself using Carnare cables and Neutrik connectors. The AES splitter we used was from Phase 3 ADA-204A Audio Distribution Amplifier, Dual Channel, or Stereo (1 in, 4 outputs)

Best of luck!
This does open a few options up

Quote:
mosrite -

If you are using RTAS I assume that you are using a Pro Tools system.

I insert the EQ1 into the signal path pre analog chain for surgical adjustments. I rarely use it as my only EQ though. I like to play it's surgical/transparent strengths against the girth and warmth of analog EQs
So are you running a PT LE system too? If so, could you tell me your signal path and how are you converting your SPDIF to AES for the Weiss and are there any issues with this? Thanks.
Old 6th September 2007
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
This does open a few options up



So are you running a PT LE system too? If so, could you tell me your signal path and how are you converting your SPDIF to AES for the Weiss and are there any issues with this? Thanks.
Actually it's an HD system. I use the AES outputs of the HD to the Weiss and insert that path. The HD is clocked via a Lavry converter and the Lavry is used for the analog path. Which LE system do you have? I'm sure there's a way of doing this.
Old 7th September 2007
  #23
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Another vote for the Weiss EQ1-MkII, I use the minimum phase version here mostly in M/S mode to cut things surgically or to do a few small boosts every now & then. I usually go out the DA to a Sontec MES-432C for broad boost treatment then capture back to digital & do surgery with the Weiss.

I think what Lucey is describing as slight smearing is probably the upsample/downsample if you send the Weiss a 44.1 or 48k signal. Running the Weiss with a 96kHz signal sounds very clear & transparent. As many people have already said, Daniel is a champ to deal with, great support & always interested in feedback or making the product better. It's also very well made, has been operating flawlessly here for the past few years.

Matt
Old 7th September 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post
I think what Lucey is describing as slight smearing is probably the upsample/downsample if you send the Weiss a 44.1 or 48k signal. Running the Weiss with a 96kHz signal sounds very clear & transparent.
Correct.
Old 7th September 2007
  #25
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oops always ( almost ) at 44.1 Khz running with the weiss ... will check out the 96Khz/Weiss ... curious ...... thanks guys ....

is wat you hear what you get .. ?????

if getting source material at 44.1 ... convert to 96Khz .... capture at 96Khz ... convert back to 44.1 Khz .....

in 96 KHz you convert twice ..... when running 44.1 Khz .. none ....
well should be a nice test ... if we got the time ...
Old 7th September 2007
  #26
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Thanks for all the info so far. Guess the point is that it doesn't matter how good the unit is if I cannot properly integrate it into my setup.

Quote:
Actually it's an HD system. I use the AES outputs of the HD to the Weiss and insert that path. The HD is clocked via a Lavry converter and the Lavry is used for the analog path. Which LE system do you have? I'm sure there's a way of doing this.
I'm getting myself into a clocking tangle here:

(BTW, it's the 002 I'm using although I think all LE systems are probably about as limited)

So I send out of the SPDIF from the 002. At this point the 002 is clocked internally. Not a problem right? as the Weiss will pick it up and it's just a bit perfect digital transfer?.

The Weiss does it's stuff and sends out a new digital signal. Now if sending to the Tascam to record this would be fine as the Tascam will just work off the clock embedded within the AES signal from the Weiss right?

But I presume things get a little more complicated if I go back into the 002 ,as opposed to the Tascam, from the Weiss. You have to choose whether to clock the 002 either internally or externally (Internally if playing out and externally if recording in). And as there is no wordclock functionality it must pickup clock from the SPDIF signal. So does this not create a conflict as I will be recording back in from the Weiss (ideally clocking externally to the Weiss's AES signal) and sending out from the 002 (ideally clocking internally from the 002).

Ideas please!
Old 7th September 2007
  #27
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I understand that this is a headache folk might not want to share but if someone out there can just confirm or disprove my understanding of this then it would be most helpful
Old 8th September 2007
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
So I send out of the SPDIF from the 002. At this point the 002 is clocked internally. Not a problem right?
No problem there.

Quote:
as the Weiss will pick it up and it's just a bit perfect digital transfer?.
Yes.

Quote:
Now if sending to the Tascam to record this would be fine as the Tascam will just work off the clock embedded within the AES signal from the Weiss right?
Yes.

Quote:
But I presume things get a little more complicated if I go back into the 002 ,as opposed to the Tascam, from the Weiss.
Why is it different? I know it can get a little confusing however the Weiss isn't fussy with clocking, it receives it's clock from the AES input & spits this source out the AES output. The only time I've had trouble with the Weiss clocking correctly happens occasionally with changing sample rates, sometimes I get a lock up & have to power cycle the unit.

Quote:
You have to choose whether to clock the 002 either internally or externally (Internally if playing out and externally if recording in).
Because the clock source has originated from the internal clock of the 002 & you are going out & back in as a digital loop through the Weiss, there shouldn't be any clocking issues if you keep the 002 on internal sync.

Now if you went from the Weiss out to a D/A converter through some analog gear & captured back into the 002 or Tascam from your Lavry A/D then I would say clock off your Lavry A/D. Am I making sense?

Matt
Old 8th September 2007
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inlinenl View Post
oops always ( almost ) at 44.1 Khz running with the weiss ... will check out the 96Khz/Weiss ... curious ...... thanks guys ....

is wat you hear what you get .. ?????

if getting source material at 44.1 ... convert to 96Khz .... capture at 96Khz ... convert back to 44.1 Khz .....

in 96 KHz you convert twice ..... when running 44.1 Khz .. none ....
well should be a nice test ... if we got the time ...
Ok, if you send a 96kHz signal through the Weiss it's not doing any upsampling or down sampling. If you send a 44.1khz or 48kHz signal through the Weiss, then it is upsampling internally to 96kHz then downsampling after the EQ DSP back to the input sample rate. So this is an up/down SRC which you have no say over unless your input rate is 88.2 or 96khz.

So with this in mind, I upsample all my 44.1 or 48k sources to 96kHz using a high quality SRC of my choice before it goes into the rest of the chain then do one final SRC back to 44.1kHz at the end of the project again using my choice of high quality SRC. Let's face it, if the Weiss is doing an up/down SRC on your 44.1/48k signal anyway why not have the benefit of 96kHz processing through the entire processing chain? This way you can choose where to apply the SRC (of your choice) & it's only occurring once (one up, one down).

Matt
Old 8th September 2007
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post
Let's face it, if the Weiss is doing an up/down SRC on your 44.1/48k signal anyway why not have the benefit of 96kHz processing through the entire processing chain? This way you can choose where to apply the SRC (of your choice) & it's only occurring once (one up, one down).

Matt
interesting point Matt,

not to hi jack the thread but were do you chain your limiter then ?
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