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Position of analog gear in mastering chain Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 8th July 2008
  #31
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lucey's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundseeker View Post
the reason I thought a 2 ch reverb has its place on the 2 bus, is that it would allow the musicians to share the same reverb space dynamics.(the same glue) In contrast, where the reverb is applied individually, each component would be generating its own ripples, which might not interact very naturally in the mix
this is a mastering forum, and yours is a mix question. however, 2 mix reverbs are very, very rare in mixing.

Common mix effects are both stereo and mono returns from aux sends, layered verbs of different sizes on the same source, slap delays instead of verbs, spring verbs panned opposite, detuned effects for subtle ambience, etc, etc. This is a big topic and decades of discovery for you.
Old 8th July 2008
  #32
thanks lucey

****, the mountain seems even bigger when you get right to the foot of it!
Old 11th July 2008
  #33
Hal
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I saw that most of you put an eq for cut before comp and one for boost post comp.

Don't you think that, using a 'transparent' comp (i.e. like stc8), could be better to boost before it to have a more compact and homogeneous sound and to have a leveler at the end of the chain to hit better (if needed) the AD?
Old 12th July 2008
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGray View Post
Probably best to contact me off list
The masters sound great - thanks! And I know you fit me in your schedule, so I appreciate that too. Very cool!
Old 25th July 2008
  #35
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DAW - DAC - Limiting - Analog Recording!


Old 25th July 2008
  #36
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Using the Crookwood here which allows endless possibilities, stereo or M/S.

It's pretty much DAW>DAC>Clean EQ>Coloured EQ>Compression>Sometimes more compression>Sometimes post EQ>Weiss DS-1>DAW

After the tracks have been recorded I may touch them up with the Sony Oxford EQ in Sequoia and do some more level matching. Sometimes use a software limiter if it works better. Occasionally just EQ to tape and back into the DAW. Occasionally just scratch my head thinking nothing is going to make this sound good.
Old 25th July 2008
  #37
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thats funny ben !
i was gonna type out our chain but its so long ( or so short) it did my head in trying to make it seem logical we sometimes just have no chain...

todays job ( which sounds truly horrible except for two songs ) goes something like this for most of the songs

ampex 1/2 >pultecs> massive passive >varimu>parkside matrix with another 2 pultecs and a fairchild on the mono and an avalon eq on the stereo then out quad eight eq> bendini > alsmart> quad eight limiter> al smart limiter into an api 5500 then A to D into waves l2> apoggee uv1000 into sadie

which looks like madness but all of this is switched through the parkside desk so some songs have just one eq then into the converters and some songs have the whole lot ( the desk has a 12 chain insert system)
we just punch one button to add to or shorten the chain

but then i thought we also have a patch bay with a 7 chn pultec summing box more eqs more comps more bendinis and a bunch of stuff i wont talk about which means that is just one days example
and of course nearly every thing we own has been pulled apart and "improved or destroyed " depending on your view point

bottom line what is our chain ...? dunno it depends on how good or bad the job is

if i can do nothing and thats the best way to go i am the first guy there !
Old 25th July 2008
  #38
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Rick with a gear list like that, I'm surprised you didn't join Gear Slutz years ago

Would you really use 5 compressors in series on a song? Perhaps the ones that need a lot of work or a re-mix!

Matt
Old 26th July 2008
  #39
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what only five ...? what about the sidechains...?

our desk lets me put a bunch of limiter / comps before and after eqs then punch ALL the comps out at once and leave the eqs in or of course punch them one at a time same with the eqs or the matrix or the sidechian in or out on gold relays if you get my drift

so i have the whole spanish armada chained up (in a looooong chain and then i figure it out song by song, and it usually ends up a very short chain )
but if i did an average i am sure it would be three comp limiters at once
each one barely moving the meters a bees dick but in different settings
before/ after eq - thats normal for you guys isnt it ..?

if i could find a multiband comp/limiter that did more good then harm for me maybe i would change things

but when the record is really poorly done , i find myself doing different passes for the intro , different for the verse different for the chorus basically remixing the damn thing !
and once you have done it to a client one time they think THAT is normal mastering so if it sucks now days i consider just sending them home
( and sometimes i do !)

i remember a time when normal mastering for me was to set the sontec eq on hi +2
and walk over to the vms 80 and clear the sticky swarf from the vacuum tube with one hand and ride the acceleration limiter word by word with the other for the whole side
how things have changed..? one eq one limiter

Last edited by turtlerock; 26th July 2008 at 04:24 AM.. Reason: spelling mistakes
Old 26th July 2008
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock View Post
... ampex 1/2 >pultecs> massive passive >varimu>parkside matrix with another 2 pultecs and a fairchild on the mono and an avalon eq on the stereo then out quad eight eq> bendini > alsmart> quad eight limiter> al smart limiter into an api 5500 then A to D into waves l2> apoggee uv1000 into sadie...
and the first thing back into the Sadie would be a ... denoiser ? heh

Peter van't Riet
FineTune Mastering
Old 26th July 2008
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlerock View Post
our desk lets me put a bunch of limiter / comps before and after eqs then punch ALL the comps out at once and leave the eqs in or of course punch them one at a time same with the eqs or the matrix or the sidechian in or out on gold relays if you get my drift
Understood, I've only got 3 analog inserts on the Dangerous Master but I also have another 3 digital hardware inserts for the HEDD & Weiss units. If I need any other analog processing it's physically daisy chained on one of the other inserts.

Quote:
but if i did an average i am sure it would be three comp limiters at once
each one barely moving the meters a bees dick but in different settings
before/ after eq - thats normal for you guys isnt it ..?
like you it depends on the mix/music, if I want to repair things I usually rely on the Weiss DS-1 & EQ-1 as first cabs off the rank. It can take a while to get to know the Weiss gear intimately, especially the DS-1 (it's deep!) but to know them is to love them. Very transparent especially the DS-1 with the new Mk3 software. It's the most transparent frequency dependent compressor I've ever heard & a killer de-esser. Once the corrections are done, it's out to the analog world for some tender love & sweetening.

Quote:
if i could find a multiband comp/limiter that did more good then harm for me maybe i would change things
I know what you mean I don't use MB compression for the same reasons, but the Weiss DS-1 in frequency dependent mode is something worth checking out. If you haven't tried one recently get a Mk3 upgraded unit. The Mk2 was pretty good but now with the unlinked (dual mono) operation, the M/S options & variable RMS or Peak side chain detection it's incredibly flexible but most importantly, I can't hear it doing anything negative to the sound, it just fixes things without getting in the way. Likewise, if certain processors aren't needed they aren't inline, generally a simple chain is often the best for preserving fidelity. It's nice to be spoilt for choice though & it sounds like you've got a great way of auditioning the many different options in your chain.

Tell us about your Pultec summing box.. is it something you put together yourself?

Matt
Old 26th July 2008
  #42
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the pultec summimg box is a 3 unit 7 chn stereo tube mixer they did
looks likes like an eqpia - pretty rare and kinda clunky looking

i have had a insert interface built for it so it has discreet mutes so i can turn each channel off cleanly and we messed with the transformers so its balanced in and out
Old 26th July 2008
  #43
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It's very funny for me the guys that in a mastering process are backing whit the signal in DAW(...) heh
Old 28th July 2008
  #44
multiple conversion steps

This is probably going to procure scoffs from some, but after reading Turtlerock's 3 mile long signal chain, I figure: why not? heh

Does anyone convert from AD and DA multiple times? For instance:
DAW -> DAC -> Analog Comp -> ADC -> EQ Plugin -> DAC -> Analog Comp2/EQ/etc -> ADC -> DAW

If you had great converters, what would the downside be?
Seems like not being able to do this would limit you quite a bit in terms of flexibility.

In the editor it could be facilitated by putting hardware IO inserts on the stereo channel. That said, can this be done with many editors? Obviously Logic and PT can do it, but I'm thinking of the more mastering-related editors. I've never seen a way to do it in Wavelab unless there's an IO plugin I'm unaware of.

Thanks,
Ed
Old 29th July 2008
  #45
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just so we are clear in that post ( for that day) i had only one conversion and that was from analog to digital at the end of the chain - the source was 1/2" analog mix tapes the result was digital

obviously i figure any conversion needs to be done based on the pro and cons of doing it.
if we get a digital source ( which is most of the time) i find that that the analog gear can do things the digital cannot do ( and vice versa) so if a DA conversion is worth the reward we do it but its still just the once out and back in

i nearly was not going to type that chain out but i figured i am new here and to GET you must GIVE and because i know how it reads ( nutso !)
but i can assure you its not - its very workable in our situation

if you look after the technical side of the engineering long analog chains can be wonderful set of tools to have at your disposal.

but i suppose if your not the kind of place that pulls things apart to make them work better that many ( and more) devices in a mastering situation would be just diabolical !
Old 29th July 2008
  #46
I understand - I definitely wasn't trying to say anything in my post opening, just a bit of fun I personally didn't think your chain was that bad. I know a lot of MEs go for the cleanest/shortest signal path, but sometimes you just need more gear to get the mix sounding good.

And really, at the end of the session, it's all about what the master sounds like and if the client likes it. However many pieces of kit needed to get there is irrelevant.

Ed
Old 13th November 2008
  #47
Hal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
DAW -> DA => cut eq => clean compressor => boost eq => AD -> limiter -> Hedd -> DAW
Reading back this old thread, I'd like to ask you, Lucey, why do you use Hedd at the end of the chain after the limiter? Thank you
Old 31st March 2011
  #48
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curious too...
Old 27th February 2013
  #49
Here for the gear
Hello!
As I can see, more than one dac -> adc conversion is discouraged. But what about summing machines? This is my current chain. Have u got some advices for me?

DAW -> DAC -> Summing Machine (dangerous) -> ADC -> Multiband Comp, Comp, EQ -> DAC -> PENDULUM PL-2 (a lgentle limiting on transients, just 1/1,5dbs not to overload the next step) -> ADC -> Limiter -> DAW

What do you think?

thanx,

Icaro
Old 28th February 2013
  #50
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Sweetsaulmusic's Avatar
Interested on the hedd post limiter...
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