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Wavelab 6 new SRC and Restoration Tools DAW Software
Old 28th August 2007
  #1
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Wavelab 6 new SRC and Restoration Tools

Hey Guys,

I have been considering going Wavelab for my Mastering as I am being swayed by a review I read that suggested that it's new SRC is right up there with the best.

The audio restoration tools also look pretty tasty but I was wondering how effective they actually are? (I think the main one is called DeNoiser - very original!).

Any of you got any opinions on Wavelab 6 yet?

Cheers,
Old 28th August 2007
  #2
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DBarbarulo's Avatar
is a quite good and stable platform for the money.
I dunno about src or denoising, never used and never tested.

DB
Old 28th August 2007
  #3
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obostic's Avatar
 

I was reading over at the Cubase forum and apparently there's an issue with the Crystal Resampler SRC at 88.1 with the Ultra setting. You may want to check out the Cubase forum for more details.
Old 28th August 2007
  #4
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosrite View Post
Hey Guys,

I have been considering going Wavelab for my Mastering as I am being swayed by a review I read that suggested that it's new SRC is right up there with the best.

The audio restoration tools also look pretty tasty but I was wondering how effective they actually are? (I think the main one is called DeNoiser - very original!).

Any of you got any opinions on Wavelab 6 yet?

Cheers,
We have been using WL since version 1.6. It is a very good very stable platform and the SRC is very good in WL6 (although a bit slow) The noise reduction tools are very good but somewhat long in the tooth (they need to be updated) I think it is an excellenet two track editing and mastering DAW and something that we use everyday. You may also want to look at Samplitude as it has some very nice mastering tools.
Old 28th August 2007
  #5
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
try Weiss Saracon (Weiss :: SARACON) for best conversion.

cheers
Old 28th August 2007
  #6
Gear Head
 

Audiocube

I have been using Wavelab for mastering since dropping Sonic Solutions. I find myself navigating much quicker for production work, but the editing is cumbersome for anything beyond basic assembly. Not really a hang up though. The sample rate conversions are top notch as I compaired them to DCS 972. Really good - as is slight pitch shifts without time change.
I don't use the standard restoration tools as I have the Audiocube version of Wavelab as built by Cube-Tec. After many hours of testing and trials of restoration software, hardware, ,magic wands etc.... I found these to be the best for what I have to tackle. They are not cheap, but you would be hard pressed to find better. They only work with Wavelab and are tied to the hardware - Audiocube must build you the computer.

cheers
Old 28th August 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
if src is most importand for you,try the voxengo r8brain. Its good (much better than wavelab 5 but I didn't try 6) and free. Also test the pro version(limited to 1 minute in demo mode).
Old 28th August 2007
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Regarding SRC comparisons, you find extensive information here: SRC Comparisons Make sure that you also read the background information. It's good.

Quote:
I don't use the standard restoration tools as I have the Audiocube version of Wavelab as built by Cube-Tec. After many hours of testing and trials of restoration software, hardware, ,magic wands etc.... I found these to be the best for what I have to tackle. They are not cheap, but you would be hard pressed to find better. They only work with Wavelab and are tied to the hardware - Audiocube must build you the computer.
That is outdated information as far as Wavelab as a compulsory host is regarded. You can get an AudioCube with Sequoia as well if you want to.

While Wavelab is an excellent editor for all kinds of file-based operations and within the application scope more focussed than Samplitude or Sequoia, the immediate drawback also is that more complex edits take way longer with Wavelab than with Sequoia. As far as stability is concerned, it has its share of issues, that are however mostly benign. Performing the same things Wavelab can do, Sequoiatude is for more stable in my regard. But your mileage might vary.

As far as the default Restoration tools are concerned, Samplitude doesn't tackle some functions at all, like glitch interpolation. On the other hand, Samplitude's Spectral Editor is way more powerful than WL6's spectral editing. Beyond very basic restoration tasks however both are simply not good enough and I would urgently recommend to use specific, grown-up tools from Algorithmix, Cedar or CubeTec. (in alphabetical order...)

Cheers,

Sebastian
Old 28th August 2007
  #9
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mosrite's Avatar
 

Thanks for the opinions folks.

I am open to other options but it will have to be a PC based app.

Idea is my workflow will be basic edits and perhaps assembly within PT.

I then plan to bounce that file and import into an app like Wavelab for everything from EQ plugs to analysis to complex fixes and then, obviously, the burn.

You see I have my eye on the Algorithmix plugs but they wont work under RTAS. I also figure, perhaps wrongly, that Wavelab will be more suited to more in depth work on the file than PT.

That's the planned workflow. I guess there is an extra bit of processing going on with the bouncing within PT but I have never had an issue with the BTD option sonically.

All opinions, as always, most appreciated

(also, how do the Wavelab restoration plugs compare to say Waves X-Noise?)
Old 28th August 2007
  #10
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inlinenl's Avatar
 

Verified Member
wavelab all the way .... great application ... it's the only I use ... playback/capture/edit/arrange/burn .... no-plug-ins ... rock-solid on PC ..
nice combo with RME HDSP AES32

restoration version 5 .... I really don't want to use that ... can do some de-click ... for the easy-stuff it's okay ...
maybe restoration from tc-electronic on power-core is affordable and okay ... other solutions are pricey ..
do the fit/justify the bill of you're customers .... or only for some AAA places ..

enjoy ..
Old 29th August 2007
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

I've used Wavelab since 1999 and it has really helped tremendously throughout the years. IMHO everything is pretty much laid out correctly, which is essential when you are making quick edits.


I also own Samplitude however not as long as Wavelab so naturally, I can perform tasks quicker on Wavelab.

Process wise, Samplitude does have the edge in terms of Speed. Stability wise, I would say Wavelab has a slight edge although neither products have crashed on me.

Samplitude is more intense (Meaning you really need to understand what you are looking for when faced with so many options) than Wavelab.

Not saying Wavelab is simple. For if that was the case, I wouldn't have purchased it. I prefer more complex things which enables me to learn more. It's just with the option to use Samplitude as a multi track board comes more features not found in Wavelab.

I'm using version 3.0 so things may have changed throughout the years. However, 99% of all VSTs work in my old version so, you shouldn't be faced with any VST Plug-Ins causing a crash. Wavelab will basically tell you there is a problem with the VST and prevent it from loading in your folder upon powering it up.

In the event it loads and there is a problem, Wavelab will just halt the music, inform you that there is a problem with the VST in which Wavelab couldn't control and suggest you save your work.

Say, you lose power and, was in the middle of your work, Wavelab will automatically save the file (Although if you haven't saved the processing it won't save the alterations) in a XX$ or something like that in your temp file. Just change the $$XX file extension back to a wav extension and you are back in business.

Last but definitely not least, Wavelab (Like Samplitude) is not a resource hog. So, even if your computer is not strong enough under today's standards, either product will work fine.
Old 29th August 2007
  #12
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
hm, to get you a more detailed aspect of whats happening with SRC.

SRC Comparisons

if you compare all the other products to Weiss Saracon you see, that there are a lot of artefacts in the audible area (0 to 19khz) but not with Weiss. (except the izotope.. but the bad news is, that the website was made by izotope).

concerning quality of conversion, you have the WEISS witch performs best out (1khz tone => artefacts) and phase.

Weiss is the only SRC that uses double internal resampling and has no audible nor measurable artefacts and this is why it "sounds" better (more width and depth).

to clarify the izotope thing:
the guy uses a very very steep filter that causes other problems in the audible range, like a brickwall limiter where you crush the signal at a certain point. (see transition).

I will deliver a more apropriate explanation when I am awake.. heh


concerning restauration, I always loved the Weiss hardware units because in my opinion they are simply the best. the main problem is the price and this is the only problem.

enough marketing.. need a coffee now.
fuuck

Last edited by George Necola; 29th August 2007 at 06:40 AM.. Reason: spelling
Old 29th August 2007
  #13
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
try Weiss Saracon (Weiss :: SARACON) for best conversion.

cheers
Considering that the Saracon cost approximately three times what Wavelab costs and considering it is designed by Daniel it should be the best BUT Wavelab's Chrystal resampler is more than acceptable given that it is but ONE of the features that comes with WL. fuuck
Old 29th August 2007
  #14
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Considering that the Saracon cost approximately three times what Wavelab costs and considering it is designed by Daniel it should be the best BUT Wavelab's Chrystal resampler is more than acceptable given that it is but ONE of the features that comes with WL. fuuck
ok.. still waiting for the argument? cost? no..

you spend thousands of dollars/Euros/whatever to achieve the max, spend 100's of hours time to maximize your knowledge, and improve your master and then safe some money on the final step?

I don't know what you mean..

sorry..

Old 29th August 2007
  #15
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
ok.. still waiting for the argument? cost? no..

you spend thousands of dollars/Euros/whatever to achieve the max, spend 100's of hours time to maximize your knowledge, and improve your master and then safe some money on the final step?

I don't know what you mean..

sorry..

In the "real" world there are pros and cons to every purchase. You have to weigh the expense against the gains you will make by owning the software or hardware. Sometimes you have to think to yourself "OK so I buy this Saracon software and how many times a month am I going to use it? or do the clients I have now appreciate that I am using the best of the best when I convert their 88.2/24 bit grunge rock band recorded in the basement - balls to the walls - distorted - "Master Piece" - or will they even notice"

I have a Weiss EQ1 MKII and it is by far the best piece of audio equipment I have ever owned. It does what it is suppose to do, sounds GREAT and it really enhances what I do. I would also like to be able to afford a Weiss limiter compressor but at present I am using a dbx Quantum II because it is what I can afford and what my current client base allows me to purchase.

I did not get the impression that this was a discussion about the BEST SRC available but the best affordable one.

So I am in complete agreement with your ideas that this maybe the best there is in SRC software but it is also expensive.
Old 29th August 2007
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

probably not so expensive when you're the distributor.
GS is getting incredibly ****ing lame in regards to people with a conflict of interest and their hard selling tactics. and, this one is a freaking Mod, no less.
Old 29th August 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
hm, to get you a more detailed aspect of whats happening with SRC.

SRC Comparisons

if you compare all the other products to Weiss Saracon you see, that there are a lot of artefacts in the audible area (0 to 19khz) but not with Weiss. (except the izotope.. but the bad news is, that the website was made by izotope).

concerning quality of conversion, you have the WEISS witch performs best out (1khz tone => artefacts) and phase.

Weiss is the only SRC that uses double internal resampling and has no audible nor measurable artefacts and this is why it "sounds" better (more width and depth).

to clarify the izotope thing:
the guy uses a very very steep filter that causes other problems in the audible range, like a brickwall limiter where you crush the signal at a certain point. (see transition).

I will deliver a more apropriate explanation when I am awake.. heh


concerning restauration, I always loved the Weiss hardware units because in my opinion they are simply the best. the main problem is the price and this is the only problem.

enough marketing.. need a coffee now.
fuuck
Hmm can you back up your claims with audio examples?

IMHO it looks like the $129.95 Voxengo R8brain Pro is right about on par (even surpasses it) with the Weiss (unless you seriously think that information below -160dBFS is a problem).

It even gives you several options from linear phase to a "musical" minimum phase (where Aleksey on purpose "bends" the phase gradually).

Not to mention that there were many many people swearing by their hardware Weiss SFC2 and said it was superior to the Voxengo R8brain pro until all the accurate sample rate test came out (there are several, not just the one mentioned above).

Anyhow, if you have time, could you post a test file, convert it with the Weiss? I'll convert it with the r8brain pro here and we can do comparisons or even a blind test. My guess is that they both perform so well that it nullifies any differences that might be inherent (though it would be interesting to hear how the minimum phase filter of R8brain pro compares to the more conventional filter on the weiss converter).

Cheers!
bManic
Old 29th August 2007
  #18
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by subatomicpieces View Post
probably not so expensive when you're the distributor.
GS is getting incredibly ****ing lame in regards to people with a conflict of interest and their hard selling tactics. and, this one is a freaking Mod, no less.
wow, what is your problem?

I try to list the advantages of owning one. I list in my signature that I distribute WEISS SARACON software. I could have done it like several others, that dont list anything and just pimp it

do you agree with me, that its allowed to post positive stuff about thing you know very well? and it's fair to put my connections to my signature.. this board is about discussing gear and ask for advice. Weiss Saracon is the best, and lightyears beyond right8brain... that is a fact.


Quote:
In the "real" world there are pros and cons to every purchase. You have to weigh the expense against the gains you will make by owning the software or hardware. Sometimes you have to think to yourself "OK so I buy this Saracon software and how many times a month am I going to use it? or do the clients I have now appreciate that I am using the best of the best when I convert their 88.2/24 bit grunge rock band recorded in the basement - balls to the walls - distorted - "Master Piece" - or will they even notice"

I have a Weiss EQ1 MKII and it is by far the best piece of audio equipment I have ever owned. It does what it is suppose to do, sounds GREAT and it really enhances what I do. I would also like to be able to afford a Weiss limiter compressor but at present I am using a dbx Quantum II because it is what I can afford and what my current client base allows me to purchase.

I did not get the impression that this was a discussion about the BEST SRC available but the best affordable one.

So I am in complete agreement with your ideas that this maybe the best there is in SRC software but it is also expensive.
I agree, my response was in this case maybe a bit too harsh. I am sorry. I just wanted to show folks, that it's a necessary thing to think about SRC.


Quote:
Anyhow, if you have time, could you post a test file, convert it with the Weiss? I'll convert it with the r8brain pro here and we can do comparisons or even a blind test. My guess is that they both perform so well that it nullifies any differences that might be inherent (though it would be interesting to hear how the minimum phase filter of R8brain pro compares to the more conventional filter on the weiss converter).

Cheers!
bManic
that is a deal! give me one more week, I am still behind my timetable. do yo u have testfile available?

cheers
Old 29th August 2007
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

you said yourself, "enough marketing"...

I was just agreeing and applying that same sentiment to this whole board.
Old 29th August 2007
  #20
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by subatomicpieces View Post
you said yourself, "enough marketing"...

I was just agreeing and applying that same sentiment to this whole board.
thumbsup agreed. will enjoy a film this evening, so enough marketing for today. will you join the club of sampleconversion and nulltest?

peace
Old 29th August 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
....if you compare all the other products to Weiss Saracon you see, that there are a lot of artefacts in the audible area (0 to 19khz) but not with Weiss. (except the izotope.. but the bad news is, that the website was made by izotope).

concerning quality of conversion, you have the WEISS witch performs best out (1khz tone => artefacts) and phase.

Weiss is the only SRC that uses double internal resampling and has no audible nor measurable artefacts and this is why it "sounds" better (more width and depth).

to clarify the izotope thing:
the guy uses a very very steep filter that causes other problems in the audible range, like a brickwall limiter where you crush the signal at a certain point. (see transition).

I will deliver a more apropriate explanation when I am awake.. heh
.....
I beta tested the Saracon and Wave Editor (Izotope SRC); actually, a lot of testing!

To my ear, neither was a clear winner. Sometimes I preferred one over the other but not consistently. Given that very small differences and that they were not important enough to own multiple SRC programs, I went with Wave Editor.

I am not driven by saving 2 or 3 hundred dollars but chose the less expensive Wave Editor b/c I liked the workflow better and the bonus that it will be able to do many more things in the future.

However, I have the utmost respect for Weiss products, and in fact, own 3 hardware boxes, the AD converter, EQ and Compressor.

I've not gone out of my way to post my observations except that your post makes it seem like the Saracon sounds so much better and I think people should be aware that that there are other opinions as well!

I also suggested to Daniel that he should consider pricing Saracon lower but he obviously didn't agree with me!
Old 29th August 2007
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
thumbsup agreed. will enjoy a film this evening, so enough marketing for today. will you join the club of sampleconversion and nulltest?

peace
definitely interested in the results
Old 30th August 2007
  #23
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sequoia Berlin View Post
Regarding SRC comparisons, you find extensive information here: SRC Comparisons Make sure that you also read the background information. It's good.



That is outdated information as far as Wavelab as a compulsory host is regarded. You can get an AudioCube with Sequoia as well if you want to.

Cheers,

Sebastian
Good to know. I will have to inquire about using the Cubetec plugins with sequoia. I just ran over to their web site and see that they are now licensing these plug ins for Pro Tools! That is good news.

Cheers.
Old 30th August 2007
  #24
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Krehm View Post
I beta tested the Saracon and Wave Editor (Izotope SRC); actually, a lot of testing!

To my ear, neither was a clear winner. Sometimes I preferred one over the other but not consistently. Given that very small differences and that they were not important enough to own multiple SRC programs, I went with Wave Editor.

I am not driven by saving 2 or 3 hundred dollars but chose the less expensive Wave Editor b/c I liked the workflow better and the bonus that it will be able to do many more things in the future.

However, I have the utmost respect for Weiss products, and in fact, own 3 hardware boxes, the AD converter, EQ and Compressor.

I've not gone out of my way to post my observations except that your post makes it seem like the Saracon sounds so much better and I think people should be aware that that there are other opinions as well!

I also suggested to Daniel that he should consider pricing Saracon lower but he obviously didn't agree with me!


what was your imagination about space, depth and musicality of the ozone?

cheers

Last edited by George Necola; 30th August 2007 at 11:08 PM.. Reason: edited because of not scientificaly proofed theorie ;)
Old 31st August 2007
  #25
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
what was your imagination about space, depth and musicality of the ozone?

cheers
For godness sakes, I been in the music business my whole life (pro musician) and have mastered for the last 15 years of it. In other words, I'm entitled to express my opinion about SRC software comparisons. My daily mastering work is based on evaluating space, depth and musicality!

To reiterate, sometimes Saracon sounded better and sometime Izotope did. And, believe it or not, Pro Tools HD conversion sometimes even beat both of them. Yes, this is totally subjective but I'm the one who's buying and I get to chose and express my opinions.

At first I didn't really mind a dealer posting on this sight, but anyone can see that you are totally opinionated and really pushing your product! I've already acknowleged that Daniel Weiss makes great products (I own 3 hardware units) but the Saracon, while an excellent SRC program, is NOT a slam dunk winner in the SRC sweepstakes, at least IMO.
Old 31st August 2007
  #26
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Krehm View Post

At first I didn't really mind a dealer posting on this sight, but anyone can see that you are totally opinionated and really pushing your product! I've already acknowleged that Daniel Weiss makes great products (I own 3 hardware units) but the Saracon, while an excellent SRC program, is NOT a slam dunk winner in the SRC sweepstakes, at least IMO.
thumbsup I appreciate your opinion about Saracon.

just to make my situation clear:
I mix myself and I did myself a comparison, and Saracon was my "slamdunk winner", so it worked FOR ME 100%.

I will shut up now and let you guys choose the conversion yourselfheh

cheers man
Old 31st August 2007
  #27
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
thumbsup I appreciate your opinion about Saracon.

just to make my situation clear:
I mix myself and I did myself a comparison, and Saracon was my "slamdunk winner", so it worked FOR ME 100%.

I will shut up now and let you guys choose the conversion yourselfheh

cheers man
And you didn't have to pay full price for it so that MAY have swayed your decision?????Maybe you even got it for NFR pricing or for free???? for being a seller?????

Maybe it is just me but I always get suspicious when someone comes on REALLY STRONG on this web board for a product that they also sell ....some conflict of interest maybe?????
Old 31st August 2007
  #28
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
no.. some conflict of interest is it, when you try to tell people 100 times a day to buy a product and you DONT WRITE IN YOUR SIGNATURE that you are in some way connected to this company.

this happens all the times on gearslutz. I am just honest.

ok?
Old 31st August 2007
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Are there any Windows applications that implement Izotope's SRC? They all seem to be for mac only.
Old 1st September 2007
  #30
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
if you compare all the other products to Weiss Saracon you see, that there are a lot of artefacts in the audible area (0 to 19khz) but not with Weiss. (except the izotope.. but the bad news is, that the website was made by izotope).
As far as I know iZotope have absolutely nothing to do with the Infinite Wave website. What makes you think iZotope made the site?

Quote:
Weiss is the only SRC that uses double internal resampling
What does this mean? Most SRC's go to high internal sample rates (much more than double) for conversion. Or do you mean it is a two step conversion? (Which I think they all do).

Quote:
and has no audible nor measurable artefacts and this is why it "sounds" better (more width and depth).
Obviously it does. Just look at the graphs. Both Weiss SRCs in the graphs have a post-echo.

Quote:
to clarify the izotope thing:
the guy uses a very very steep filter that causes other problems in the audible range, like a brickwall limiter where you crush the signal at a certain point. (see transition).
I don't see how a steep filter can be compared to a limiter. What other problems does this steep filter cause?

Quote:
I will deliver a more apropriate explanation when I am awake.. heh
Please do. heh

Alistair
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