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Wavelab 6 new SRC and Restoration Tools DAW Software
Old 1st September 2007
  #31
Lives for gear
 
taturana's Avatar
 

Verified Member
IMHO, R8brain does a great job.... even the free version... Sonar 6 built in src is fine too.

it´s better sounding to my ears than wavelab 6 and of course a lot cheaper than the saracon... heh
Old 1st September 2007
  #32
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
Quote:
As far as I know iZotope have absolutely nothing to do with the Infinite Wave website. What makes you think iZotope made the site?
if you think so, then everything's alright I have a first hand information. if I am wrong, I am very sorry..



Quote:
What does this mean? Most SRC's go to high internal sample rates (much more than double) for conversion. Or do you mean it is a two step conversion? (Which I think they all do).
2 step yes.




Quote:
Obviously it does. Just look at the graphs. Both Weiss SRCs in the graphs have a post-echo.
Weiss has a post echo in the non-audible range.



Quote:
I don't see how a steep filter can be compared to a limiter. What other problems does this steep filter cause?
a steep filter can cause flatter echo
Old 1st September 2007
  #33
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
Quote:
.. and of course a lot cheaper than the saracon... heh
that is the one and absolutey true point of your post hehheh
Old 1st September 2007
  #34
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
if you think so, then everything's alright I have a first hand information. if I am wrong, I am very sorry..
I think you are confusing things. The test design was made by Alexey Lukin. He used RMAA which he himself developed. He also does work for iZotope. Dave Horrocks of Infinite Wave setup and hosts the website.

Many people were involved and contributed in various ways. The test methods were discussed publicly.

You can check the names of some of the contributors on the credits page but many more knowledgeable people joined the discussions. (For the record George wasn't part of the discussions so his first hand information isn't as first hand as he claims).

Your post implied that iZotope might be doctoring the results to promote themselves. I don't believe that is the case.

Quote:
2 step yes.
Which most SRCs do.

Quote:
Weiss has a post echo in the non-audible range.
Which is in direct contradiction to what you wrote: "has no audible nor measurable artefacts"

Quote:
a steep filter can cause flatter echo
Flatter echo? heh So you are saying it might cause problems? That is a bit different than what you wrote originally.

Alistair
Old 1st September 2007
  #35
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Krehm View Post
For godness sakes,
I don't think he meant "imagination" the way you read it but maybe I'm wrong.

Alistair
Old 1st September 2007
  #36
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
that was my bad english *imagine *

Quote:

You can check the names of some of the contributors on the credits page but many more knowledgeable people joined the discussions. (For the record George wasn't part of the discussions so his first hand information isn't as first hand as he claims).

Your post implied that iZotope might be doctoring the results to promote themselves. I don't believe that is the case.
I will


Quote:
Which most SRCs do.
I have diffrent informations


Quote:
Which is in direct contradiction to what you wrote: "has no audible nor measurable artefacts"
witch curve are you refering to? the most optimized software would have 0 degradation in the whole conversion process, witch is as we know, not the case, because there is nothing perfect (besides mother nature).

..nor measurable artefacts in the audible range (and please dont say: "hei you have noise at -130dB... you are not batman)tutt


Quote:
Flatter echo? heh So you are saying it might cause problems? That is a bit different than what you wrote originally.
nope it isnt. heh read again, I will explain my bad english


what was your job in the project`?
Old 1st September 2007
  #37
x86/x64 Moderator
 
George Necola's Avatar
.. this thread can become a SRC classic hehheh
Old 1st September 2007
  #38
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UnderTow's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
I have diffrent informations
Actually they use 3 steps: 1) Upsample to the first common multiple of the source and target sample rates. 2) Anti-imaging filtering of the result of step 1. 3) Decimation of the result of step 2 to get to the target sample rate.

Are you implying that the Weiss Saracon SRC does it differently? Maybe in 6 steps by going to an intermediary rate first and then to the target rate thus using two anti-imaging filters?

Quote:
witch curve are you refering to?
The spectrograph.

Quote:
the most optimized software would have 0 degradation in the whole conversion process, witch is as we know, not the case, because there is nothing perfect (besides mother nature).

..nor measurable artefacts in the audible range (and please dont say: "hei you have noise at -130dB... you are not batman)tutt
You wrote "no measurable artefacts" which wasn't correct. The paragraph you wrote above is more correct but is valid for all implementations.

Quote:
nope it isnt. heh read again, I will explain my bad english
Upon rereading... it still says the same thing. heh

Yes, filters cause ringing. This goes for all the filters in all the SRCs tested. Steeper filters cause more ringing.

Now the question becomes, how do the different SRCs fare (at their different settings!) and how much ringing at around 22Khz becomes an actual issue? And, as with everything in engineering, what are the trade-offs? Should we use a less steep filter and either have more aliasing and/or more loss of high-end frequencies or should we have steeper filters and less aliasing/loss of high frequencies?

Quote:
what was your job in the project`?
I just contributed. Nothing major.

Alistair
Old 9th September 2007
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Actually they use 3 steps: 1) Upsample to the first common multiple of the source and target sample rates. 2) Anti-imaging filtering of the result of step 1. 3) Decimation of the result of step 2 to get to the target sample rate.

Are you implying that the Weiss Saracon SRC does it differently? Maybe in 6 steps by going to an intermediary rate first and then to the target rate thus using two anti-imaging filters?

The spectrograph.

You wrote "no measurable artefacts" which wasn't correct. The paragraph you wrote above is more correct but is valid for all implementations.

Upon rereading... it still says the same thing. heh

Yes, filters cause ringing. This goes for all the filters in all the SRCs tested. Steeper filters cause more ringing.

Now the question becomes, how do the different SRCs fare (at their different settings!) and how much ringing at around 22Khz becomes an actual issue? And, as with everything in engineering, what are the trade-offs? Should we use a less steep filter and either have more aliasing and/or more loss of high-end frequencies or should we have steeper filters and less aliasing/loss of high frequencies?

I just contributed. Nothing major.

Alistair
what happened to the r8brain vs Weiss test? did someone chicken out? heh
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