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Last gen AD converters -
Old 15th May 2020
  #1
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Last gen AD converters -

Can anyone suggest an AD converter that was used in the late 90’s early 2000’s for mastering.
I want to get my feet wet with clipping converters.
Apogee PSX100 - lavry blues? Something along those lines.
Partly for the aesthetics of older equipment and just to learn the process. Also how’s the process flow go ? Right now it’s just Eq > external hardware SSL buss Compressor then back in to a Limiter plugin. Does clipping come after the compressor print back in and then the limiter ?
Old 15th May 2020
  #2
Clipping converters in the late 90's early 2000's?

What?

Different era, different class of engineers and different end format which was the CD.

Also the majority of major records were mixed to 1/2 inch tape either Ampex or Studer.
The budgets were much bigger so the quality control was much higher. You didn't want to build a rep as the guy who delivered tracking or mixing masters that were "clipped" especially to tape.
Old 15th May 2020
  #3
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Hahahaha - yeah I have no clue. I just prefer the late 90’s early 2k sound to today’s stuff. Figured they were were using some sort of conversion back that. What do I know
Old 15th May 2020
  #4
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I just wanted to see what this converter clipping was about but didn’t want to spend 2.5 k just starting out. From what I understand is clipping the converter is to shave some peaks so the limiter can clamp down more down the line.
Old 15th May 2020
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleep View Post
Hahahaha - yeah I have no clue. I just prefer the late 90’s early 2k sound to today’s stuff. Figured they were were using some sort of conversion back that. What do I know
I hear you those were great times looking back now.

Most of the major studios were using your old basic Digi 888/24 converters or the Sony 3348. Some producers had their apogee AD8000 rigs. And then some higher end productions were done on 2 inch tape.

But the end result you hear is just great productions and artists, recorded and mixed by some of the best engineers at the time, in some of the best studios of the time, mastered by engineers that by then had a ton of experience in mastering big budget records.
Old 15th May 2020
  #6
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I think the sound you are looking for is the dB Technologies AD-122 which was in use in the late 90s and later became the Lavry Gold. Those things have such a distinctive sound and are so familiar because they've been used so much in popular music.

If you're just wanting to experiment with the sound of clipping, there's plenty of clipper plugins that will shave off peaks in exactly the same way as an ADC. But I think it's the analogue stage preceeding the digital conversion that gives those converters their distinctive sound.
Old 15th May 2020
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
I think the sound you are looking for is the dB Technologies AD-122 which was in use in the late 90s and later became the Lavry Gold. Those things have such a distinctive sound and are so familiar because they've been used so much in popular music.
.
I think some guys at Sterling were using Prism Dream converters and GML converters, but they tweaked everything.
Old 15th May 2020
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
I think it's the analogue stage preceeding the digital conversion that gives those converters their distinctive sound.
Yeah, I usually just bounce my projects down internally and it never sounds the same to me as the mix. Figured maybe just the act of recording analog in real time might have some effect VS. Crunching numbers, maybe not. Only one way to find out I guess. Definitely something with a bit of vibe to it. Maybe in the >=1k range ?. Using a metric Halo Uln8 for recording.
Old 15th May 2020
  #9
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The Lavry Gold AD was definitely popular by the mid-late 2000s, but I’m not sure when it was actually released.
Old 15th May 2020
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocratic Mastering View Post
The Lavry Gold AD was definitely popular by the mid-late 2000s, but I’m not sure when it was actually released.
I believe it was somewhere between mid and late 90s. I guess Lavry and the Prism Sound units where the most popular back then.
Old 15th May 2020
  #11
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On the dBTech AD122, the manual says 1995 and the firmware 1997, so somewhere around this time.

If you want something cheaper, Apogee is the way to go, PSX100 or Rosetta 200
Old 15th May 2020
  #12
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Prism AD1 Dream.

Used to have one here, good fun, definitely has "a sound"
Old 15th May 2020
  #13
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misjah's Avatar
 

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Mastering studio i used in the 90/00 had a Weiss.
Old 15th May 2020
  #14
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clipping a/d or d/a converters is a bad idea - then and now!

tc, jünger, cranesong hedd48, apogee trak2
Old 15th May 2020
  #15
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxnscratch View Post
On the dBTech AD122, the manual says 1995 and the firmware 1997, so somewhere around this time.
Right on. Is yours dBTech or Lavry branded Simon?
Old 15th May 2020
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
Right on. Is yours dBTech or Lavry branded Simon?
dBTech, Lavry branding started around mkII I think
Old 15th May 2020
  #17
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TC 24/96 card also.

https://reverb.com/item/10709694-tc-...or-m5000-m6000

For M5000 and M6000

I did some tests on it, fun stuff. Has switchable anti alias filters
Attached Thumbnails
Last gen AD converters --freq-response.jpg   Last gen AD converters --intermodulation-distortion.jpg   Last gen AD converters --thd.jpg  
Old 15th May 2020
  #18
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleep View Post
Hahahaha - yeah I have no clue. I just prefer the late 90’s early 2k sound to today’s stuff. Figured they were were using some sort of conversion back that. What do I know
It was probably the mixes.
Old 15th May 2020
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
clipping a/d or d/a converters is a bad idea - then and now!

tc, jünger, cranesong hedd48, apogee trak2
I just wanted to see for myself.
But it seems like the consensus is most people print their mixes to a nice DA converter Vs bouncing to disk. So I wanted to try it out. I mean I could run my mix back in to my converter (MH-ULN8) to get an idea. But would also like to know if any older ad converters > 1k that can handle clipping.
Old 16th May 2020
  #20
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleep View Post
But it seems like the consensus is most people print their mixes to a nice DA converter Vs bouncing to disk. So I wanted to try it out.
I don't know how true that is. And I think you might be barking up the wrong tree. There's no converter that will magically change the sound of a mix. In fact, what we're generally paying for with expensive converters is to try to stay as close to the original signal as possible... And to handle hot signals gracefully, I s'pose.

If your bounces sound different to the multitrack, then that is a problem you need to sort out in your DAW or monitoring setup, AFTER doing a null test to check that your ears aren't playing tricks on you.

The sound of a record is in the performance, tracking and mixing. Esoteric hardware is the sprinkle of seasoning on top.

Last edited by SmoothTone; 16th May 2020 at 01:05 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 16th May 2020
  #21
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Apogee was the good stuff back then.
Old 20th May 2020
  #22
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum View Post
Apogee was the good stuff back then.
True. we were mixing into Apogee in the early 90s and still hitting Dat.
mainly due to the soft limit function. extra 6db sometimes.

by about 94/95 the Dat was out, and Mixes were going straight to HD.

Apogee, TC 5000, Finaliser. Multibands were coming in at mix level in the 90s.

unsure what the ME was using actually?

Buddha
Old 20th May 2020
  #23
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John Moran's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG BUDDHA View Post
unsure what the ME was using actually?

Buddha
Cranesong HEDD
TC M5K fully optioned with both engines, the EQ/Dynamics package, ADA conversion & AES I/O
Mytek 8X96DA or whatever it was called then
Z-Sys 16.16 router

was in my rig at that time period
Old 20th May 2020
  #24
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Riccardo's Avatar
 

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2 Reviews written
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Prism AD1 Dream.

Used to have one here, good fun, definitely has "a sound"
Yes around that time we printed mixes from the console to Panasonic DATs and Studer A80 1/4 (mostly) and Mastering studios had (mostly but not exclusively) first generation Prisms. Some Apogees and DCS.

If memory serves me well started to print to HD in the early 2000s likely Session 8 or Audiomedia I .....
Old 21st May 2020
  #25
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Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

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IIRC the ADC on the Sony PCM-R700 (4 head DAT) wasn't too bad (certainly better than their earlier time code DAT machines or a stock 1630) and taking a digital output would pass 24 bits (writing SBM dithered 16 bit to tape only). Not that this was common at all, and the DAC in it was 20 bit.
At the time, we switched from modified filter 1630s to Digital Audio Denmark.
Old 21st May 2020
  #26
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Ben F's Avatar
 

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1 Review written
Mostly Lavry Gold and Prism Dream ADs back then.

The Pure 2 sounds good as an AD and clips well until a certain point where it collapses the mix.
Old 21st May 2020
  #27
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BIG BUDDHA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riccardo View Post
Yes around that time we printed mixes from the console to Panasonic DATs and Studer A80 1/4 (mostly)

If memory serves me well started to print to HD in the early 2000s likely Session 8 or Audiomedia I .....
panasonic 3800s from memory. they were good. early 90s.

session 8 and audiomedia 2, was also a bit earlier than the 2000s.

i remember working in a Neve/studer studio, maybe 1993/94 ish, and remember Session 8 being around then, or maybe slightly before that.

Session 8 was running on the old 486 IBM. even before pentium. i vaguely remember Audiomedia 2 as being Pre my G3 mac from 1996 or therabouts.

we must be showing our age
Old 21st May 2020
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoftheslutz View Post
Pacific Microsonics Model 2?

I don't know how available they are, other than rentals, tbh.

But didn't they have some sort of variable filter / soft limiting thingy?



KOTS
Yes. If you have a hdcd player and the light turns green, it's a pm.
Old 23rd May 2020
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingoftheslutz View Post
Hi,

I am not sure what you mean. I don't own a Pacific Microsonics. We used one once [rental]. I was just saying I though I remembered it having some sort of tweakable filter / limiting circuitry. There was something like that.

Are they still considered the holy grail of converters, I wonder?

The other one I remember that I used a bunch for a while [a loaner] was a Weiss AD1. I know that had a limiter built in that could be set to a pretty extreme degree for cutting loud.


KOTS
I was speaking in the context of this thread, the op was asking about converters used in early 2000s. There were hdcd players at the time with a little green light that would light up if the hdcd encoding was enabled. Hdcd is a pm system designed to increase dynamic range if I remember correctly. Probably the equivalent to a few bits or so.

I know some users here still use and love this converter design.
Old 29th May 2020
  #30
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parisminzer's Avatar
 

PSX 100 All Day for the price. Still sounds Good in 2020. Gives that girth that a gold does when pushed. They go for next to nothing these days. Recommended.
*Edit* I’ve used the ‘Special Edition’ model. Don’t know about the original. My buddy’s got it on perms-loan. When I ask for it back for a project, he groans.

Last edited by parisminzer; 29th May 2020 at 08:00 AM.. Reason: Addressing specific model
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