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Mastering Destroys "Balance?"
Old 3 days ago
  #31
Lives for gear
 

aww man, you took out all the links and I wanted to sign up. It's limited to only 100 places!! Not really, but I am curious who made that offer.
Old 3 days ago
  #32
Gear Head
 
Sabovic Adis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by profvonsok View Post
aww man, you took out all the links and I wanted to sign up. It's limited to only 100 places!! Not really, but I am curious who made that offer.
Buy me beer if I tell?
Old 3 days ago
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabovic Adis View Post
Buy me beer if I tell?
Next time I'm in Sarajevo
Old 3 days ago
  #34
Gear Head
 
Sabovic Adis's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by profvonsok View Post
Next time I'm in Sarajevo
All right, then, here you go!
Old 3 days ago
  #35
Lives for gear
“The mastering chain that works every time.” Not included, I suspect.
Old 3 days ago
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabovic Adis View Post
For some reason I thought it was him LOL
Old 3 days ago
  #37
Lives for gear
 
ajscent's Avatar
 

if its really bad then i suggest you download a copy of ozone - use the AI algo which will guess how your song should sound - and then just tweak it a little - it maybe better than this guy who did it
Old 3 days ago
  #38
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
Also what's the target medum? Spotify? Apple? CD? It's not uncommon to create specific masters for intended distribution platforms.
No one at the higher end of the business is making separate masters per streaming platform. These ideas fester only here on GS and among people who are obsessed with DR meters.
Old 1 day ago
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruairi View Post
No one at the higher end of the business is making separate masters per streaming platform. These ideas fester only here on GS and among people who are obsessed with DR meters.
True
Old 9 hours ago
  #40
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottTunes View Post
PLEASE help me out!

Part of my "paycheck" was to have my name in the credits, as bassist, acoustic guitar, vocal, Hammond, recording/mixing engineer... Etc...
Rookie mistake. You are getting paid to do a job - leave it at that and charge appropriately.

If you complain, you are going to look like you are stepping over the line and whining. It won't look good and your rep is of someone who is difficult to work with.

Suck it up and never take payment in the form of 'credits'. The work gets handed over AFTER the check has cleared.
Old 8 hours ago
  #41
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottTunes View Post
PLEASE help me out!

I put heart and soul into recording and mixing a project that has "personal" written ALL over it!

A very good friend (drums/percussion) asked me to record and mix his project (based upon his late Bro-in-law's songs). He said it would NOT be "mastered," and that I should mix for, and as a final product.

THEN, another of his friends, who claims to be in the BIZ, says he'd master it... Well, I mixed to [-6], leaving little for a mastering engineer... And of course the "master" sounded awful compared to my original! Says me...

So, I'm given an opportunity to re-mix for the purpose of mastering, and I use [-12] to "leave room." And, it turns out, this master (and the last) was simply run through a software program. Unfortunately, the dynamics still aren't right... the subtle nuances of various instruments (like the attack of a Conga/Tumba, or cymbal) that were apparent in "MY" mix, are still missing... Plus the "mid range scoop" heard (from the master) left it sounding kinda hollow... My wife said, "...like it was in a big empty room." It is "missing the "intimacy" of the original (my) mix."

Anyways... I feel cheated, because the "mastering" was accomplished via software, which might cost upwards of $200, and sounds like crap, after mixing in a VERY expensive studio (of course that IS relevant!).

Should I FIGHT for a better master??? Or let it go?

Part of my "paycheck" was to have my name in the credits, as bassist, acoustic guitar, vocal, Hammond, recording/mixing engineer... Etc...

I'm inclined to have my name removed from the credits, and chalk it up to experience... That's how bad the "master" made my mix sound! And how bad I feel, after all...

The results of "our" endeavors are very depressing, rather than the excitement we felt before mastering. The biggest problem for me is, the other 2 involved in the project don't hear the destructive effect of the mastering. Even when I point it out...

MEH!!!


My question, again (and I have examples I can post) is: should I demand a better master? Or, remove my name from mix engineer status, and call it a loss??
If it doesn't "belong" to you, I.E you didn't pay for the production of the product, then it's not your call, tell your friend what you think of his other friends
"preset" mastering job, then let it go.

But, if you don't want your name on it, then for sure, tell him to leave it off. I used a "unproven" engineer/studio to make a record once but used a "Big Name" mastering guy.

The Big name mastering guy quickly pointed out that the low-end on the record was..um..."Sub-optimal"...and that there were some serious phase issues, due to over-micing (One is good?....then 4 must be great! Right?") He asked my label NOT to be credited on this record (The 2nd he had done for me.)

I wasn't insulted, I appreciated his being honest about how badly he thought it had been recorded, I learned something.
Old 6 hours ago
  #42
Here for the gear
 
touch33's Avatar
 

I’ve heard it said by many (who are far more talented than me) that the least effective thing you can add to any project is “ego”. Supposedly Quincy Jones used to place a wastebasket just outside the control room door, with a sign reading “deposit ego here”...

Sounds like there’s plenty of ego in your project already. Try filtering some of it out and THEN give ALL of the mixes another listen. Keep what works, and remember who you’re supposed to be doing this work for.
Old 5 hours ago
  #43
Lives for gear
 

Even if you're not a mastering engineer, I would do your own mastering, the way you think it should sound, and ask that that be considered.
Old 5 hours ago
  #44
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottTunes View Post
.... After I complained he first time, and remixed with lower output level and reduced reverb, he said he didn't want to re-master the whole project. BUT!!! Isn't that what mastering is??? He only has stereo tracks, and the first rendering was supposedly already mastered!
What? Reverb was added in the mastering stage?
Old 4 hours ago
  #45
Gear Addict
 
ScottTunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by piano View Post
Rookie mistake. You are getting paid to do a job - leave it at that and charge appropriately.

If you complain, you are going to look like you are stepping over the line and whining. It won't look good and your rep is of someone who is difficult to work with.

Suck it up and never take payment in the form of 'credits'. The work gets handed over AFTER the check has cleared.
This is the answer I was afraid of... And rings true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
If it doesn't "belong" to you, I.E you didn't pay for the production of the product, then it's not your call, tell your friend what you think of his other friends
"preset" mastering job, then let it go.

But, if you don't want your name on it, then for sure, tell him to leave it off. I used a "unproven" engineer/studio to make a record once but used a "Big Name" mastering guy.

The Big name mastering guy quickly pointed out that the low-end on the record was..um..."Sub-optimal"...and that there were some serious phase issues, due to over-micing (One is good?....then 4 must be great! Right?") He asked my label NOT to be credited on this record (The 2nd he had done for me.)

I wasn't insulted, I appreciated his being honest about how badly he thought it had been recorded, I learned something.
I'm only a band member and recording engineer (including mixing as final product, as mentioned). However, I have no say in the production. I complained because I was told to mix as final, rather than mix for mastering. In effect, I mastered it. Then the guy responsible for placing it with various outlets (Spotify, CD Baby, etc) mastered anyway. The producer didn't know any better... For me, lesson learned. Get it in writing, up front...


Quote:
Originally Posted by touch33 View Post
I’ve heard it said by many (who are far more talented than me) that the least effective thing you can add to any project is “ego”. Supposedly Quincy Jones used to place a wastebasket just outside the control room door, with a sign reading “deposit ego here”...

Sounds like there’s plenty of ego in your project already. Try filtering some of it out and THEN give ALL of the mixes another listen. Keep what works, and remember who you’re supposed to be doing this work for.
Unfortunately, there's lots of stupidity with this project to go with the ego. Because I complained about the cheap software "set-and-forget mastering,"
I look bad right away. And it's probably my ego that got in the way, too... Everybody else bristled because I said the mastering job ruined the mix. And that the mastering engineer did not use use his ears. Also making me look bad...

I heard from another long-time friend who, like me, was shat on by a few mastering engineers. He claimed this sort of thing happens more often than we'd like... Just move on. Those who care will realize "bad press is better than no press." So, I'll just shut up and move on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bing81 View Post
Even if you're not a mastering engineer, I would do your own mastering, the way you think it should sound, and ask that that be considered.
As mentioned, this is where this whole fiasco began - I rendered a mastered product, which someone else mastered again, making it muddier and louder than it "should be."

Anyway, I aired out my grievances with the producer, and here too. It is what it is, and can't be altered to suit me now. I've done what I was asked, and was paid. End of story for me. Shoulda just said "GREAT" and left it at that!

I try to aim higher, be better than I was, and not compete with anyone. I just wanted a fair shake at getting more gigs from this, since this will have some "push" behind it. I'll take what I can get from it, and move on...

Thanks for playing along, guys. I'm already involved in a couple more projects that should be very satisfying! Some of which I'll post here on Slutz somewhere...
Old 4 hours ago
  #46
Gear Addict
 
ScottTunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by makinao View Post
What? Reverb was added in the mastering stage?
None. But too much compression was added "to give it punch," which changed the relationship between the reverb and original sounds, as well as changing the depth of the soundstage.

The 2 most egregious errors recordists and mixers make, are over use of compression and reverb.

In this case, I believe the mastering eng ruined a perfectly usable master mix by adding another layer of mastering, and I preferred my mix to the mastering engineer's.

I'm waiting until these songs are listed in public somewhere, and then will post examples.
Old 3 hours ago
  #47
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SoundDsgn's Avatar
 

Sounds like there is a valuable opportunity for a reality check and a learning experience, that will serve you well in the future.

When I hand my mixes off to be mastered by Gateway Mastering (either Bob Ludwig or Adam Ayan) they always come back revealing more subtle detail, more depth, and a bit of magic that I will never know how they get out of the original mix. While the mixes are respected and have my intentions intact, they have gained another level of focus, clarity and punch. There is nothing arbitrary about their choices, and they always have great respect for the flat mix you’ve delivered to them. Gateway is among the best of the best and they are priced accordingly. At $500/hr, not everyone can justify the cost of mastering an album here. But they are willing to slip in a Song here and there when they have an opening in their schedule, and you could realistically get a song Mastered for about $300 - $400. (Payment required up front, no credit cards) While this may be a little steep for you, it may be a worthy investment in your future projects and as a “real world” learning experience, to hear the results of your mix in the hands of a world class mastering engineer. It will show you, in a night and day comparison, what a real mastering engineer can achieve with your mixes. It will also show you aspects of your mix, your room, and your monitoring that you ought to consider tweaking to get better translation of your flat mixes. I’d suggest giving Adam a try, as his rate is not top tier as Bob’s is, but his work is compatible on much the same gear. Adam has mentored with Bob for over 20 years. I trust them both implicitly. Right now, you are floundering in the dark because you have no reference for what a real mastering process can bring to your work. Whether you choose Gateway, or some other top shelf mastering facility, like Bernie Grundman, or the Music Bakery, etc, it will be an invaluable education to hear your work in the hands of a mastering icon. It will either give you great confidence that your mixes are really in the ballpark to translate well, or show you where you have problems to give attention to. None of this will likely change the outcome of your current project. But it will set you on a stronger path for all future projects. Good luck. I wish you the indescribable and speechless experience of hearing the magic a world class mastering engineer can reveal in your mixes.
Old 34 minutes ago
  #48
Gear Head
Leave your name on it, keep your friends and be on your away
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