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Ozone 9 Sounds "Constricted"?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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Ozone 9 Sounds "Constricted"?

I recently purchased Ozone 9 and am using it to master an album for a client. I was trying to keep myself honest by not only using the "GAIN MATCH" feature, but also turning off Ozone 9 completely, and then turning up my monitors to compare the original 2 track, but at a "non processed" louder volume.

I noticed that it sounded more open, and the Ozone 9 with processing was more constricted sounding. So I think well, it's got be my over use of compression, etc. More experimenting led me to one by one bypassing the modules I was using within Ozone 9. Bottom line, I discovered that if I have Ozone 9 loaded on the stereo bus (using Cubase 10 for mastering), even if I have the modules bypassed, it "Constricts" the sound.

I wound up only using the maximizer module as a separate plugin, coupled with a couple other separate plugins, to achieve the desired results.

Shouldn't Ozone 9 have zero effect IF there are no modules active? Has anyone else experienced this? Clearly I have more experimenting to do.

Marc
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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eternalsound's Avatar
Did Ozone 9 list "Constriction" in the product release notes by chance? I am really perplexed now.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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You can confirm your findings using a null test. Have copy channel, put Ozone modules in bypass, flip polarity on one and see what is left.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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What do you mean by constricted? Like, in terms of stereo width, or just generally kind-of over-compressed?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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There certainly is a difference in sound between Ozone 8 and Ozone 9. Not quite sure what it is but a "difference". I noticed it the first time I used it after upgrading. FWIW
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
There certainly is a difference in sound between Ozone 8 and Ozone 9. Not quite sure what it is but a "difference". I noticed it the first time I used it after upgrading. FWIW
The limiter in 8 and 9 null at the same settings. Testing I’ve done at least with the limiter module indicates that it nulls 100% with the source until processing occurs.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
The limiter in 8 and 9 null at the same settings. Testing I’ve done at least with the limiter module indicates that it nulls 100% with the source until processing occurs.
OK but something still sounds "different". Not sure what it is or whether it is bad or good just "different", FWIW
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
OK but something still sounds "different". Not sure what it is or whether it is bad or good just "different", FWIW
Null is the same scientifically. I thought it was different at first, but I realized I wasn't matching settings perfectly.

Music rebalance is enormously useful with amateur mixes.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrashinbatman View Post
What do you mean by constricted? Like, in terms of stereo width, or just generally kind-of over-compressed?
Yes, kind of an over compressed sound, but different somehow...which is why I struggled trying to explain it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
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marchhare's Avatar
 

I tested 8 vs. 9 with the same settings and they didn’t null. Wrote to Izotope support and they said the limiter was improved.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
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Just done a test with no modules active and it nulls perfectly.

The only way it doesn't null is if the limiter is in it's default -2dB threshold position, in which case when you bring it back up to 0 it nulls.

Only module I tried which doesn't null is Vintage Tape.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_caithness View Post
Just done a test with no modules active and it nulls perfectly.

The only way it doesn't null is if the limiter is in it's default -2dB threshold position, in which case when you bring it back up to 0 it nulls.

Only module I tried which doesn't null is Vintage Tape.
That is not NORMALLY the way one uses a plugin so I would have to assume that it would null perfectly but...it certainly sounds different from Ozone 8. FWIW
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
That is not NORMALLY the way one uses a plugin so I would have to assume that it would null perfectly but...it certainly sounds different from Ozone 8. FWIW
To be clear I tried it with the modules off and turned them on one by one.

Everything but Vintage Tape nulled.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
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marchhare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
That is not NORMALLY the way one uses a plugin so I would have to assume that it would null perfectly but...it certainly sounds different from Ozone 8. FWIW
Thank you. I'm not in front of my studio comp at the moment, but from memory,
I set up two identical mixes, one with the Ozone 8 Maximizer and one with the Ozone 9 Maximizer. Set them both to identical settings, with some limiting going on (-6 threshold?). Both tracks had a trim plug before Ozone to flip the phase
on one. Hit the phase button, no null, all sorts of stuff still there. Try the same
thing with two 8's or 9's, hit the phase button, total silence. This prompted me
to send an email to Izotope support, who wrote back the next day that the
limiter modes had indeed been improved. A few people on here initially thought
9 sounded better, including me. The most important thing I notice is that it's
a lot cleaner than the previous version.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
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Wait wait wait - has the limiter been changed, or not? Conflicting posts here. Probably the only reason I'd upgrade tbh.

Any expansion on what's changed, if so?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
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marchhare's Avatar
 

Of course, the response email has magically disappeared from my inbox, but the
gist of it was that the IRC modes has been improved.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
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marchhare's Avatar
 

Actually, no need to find the email-


Ozone 9 Maximizer


Maximizer Features:

Experience transparent limiting with multiple modes of the IRC™ (Intelligent Release Control) Limiter technology, now with multiple improved IRC IV modes and IRC Low Latency mode.

Threshold Learn: automatic threshold adjustment based on a user-defined LUFS target, ideal for finding the right loudness for your preferred streaming service.

Threshold and Ceiling Link: decrease threshold without boosting perceived level to hear the audible effect of your processing.

Stereo Independence: independent stereo detection of "Transient" and "Sustain" portions of the signal offer greater control of the stereo image.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
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macc's Avatar
 

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Thanks for that. I promise I did look for release notes when v9 was released!

But if they null, then... WTF

Is it just one mode, maybe? I use the IRC4 transient mode fairly often.

Or I could just STFU and test it, ha.

EDIT: Got a feeling that's just the V8 marketing blurb copy-pasted..?

Last edited by macc; 3 weeks ago at 09:36 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #19
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Hippocratic Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Thanks for that. I promise I did look for release notes when v9 was released!

But if they null, then... WTF

Is it just one mode, maybe? I use the IRC4 transient mode fairly often.

Or I could just STFU and test it, ha.

EDIT: Got a feeling that's just the V8 marketing blurb copy-pasted..?
It’s also possible that the limiters could null at certain settings and not at others, within a single algorithm. They could, for example, have only tweaked what happens when the ‘speed’ (I forget the exact term Ozone uses for attack/release) is below 2.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #20
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I'm pretty sure you just need to select legacy limiter settings to match with older versions. The new Maximizer has some more algorithms, but I don't think they have overwritten any?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #21
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marchhare View Post
Thank you. I'm not in front of my studio comp at the moment, but from memory,
I set up two identical mixes, one with the Ozone 8 Maximizer and one with the Ozone 9 Maximizer. Set them both to identical settings, with some limiting going on (-6 threshold?). Both tracks had a trim plug before Ozone to flip the phase
on one. Hit the phase button, no null, all sorts of stuff still there. Try the same
thing with two 8's or 9's, hit the phase button, total silence. This prompted me
to send an email to Izotope support, who wrote back the next day that the
limiter modes had indeed been improved. A few people on here initially thought
9 sounded better, including me. The most important thing I notice is that it's
a lot cleaner than the previous version.
Did you type in the values to both instances of Ozone? If you do this, it will null. Otherwise you will get random .01 differences.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #22
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocratic Mastering View Post
It’s also possible that the limiters could null at certain settings and not at others, within a single algorithm. They could, for example, have only tweaked what happens when the ‘speed’ (I forget the exact term Ozone uses for attack/release) is below 2.
I'm always below 2, and that's where it nulled for me.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #23
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marchhare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Did you type in the values to both instances of Ozone? If you do this, it will null. Otherwise you will get random .01 differences.
No, didn't type them in, matched settings with mouse. Will try that later tonight, as well as a few more tests. Think I'll email them again, too. Not sure why they
would lie about this.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #24
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marchhare View Post
No, didn't type them in, matched settings with mouse. Will try that later tonight, as well as a few more tests. Think I'll email them again, too. Not sure why they
would lie about this.
Yeah, they don't match unless you type them in. That does seem like the marketing blurb from Ozone 8. Regardless, 9 is a worthy upgrade just for realtime music rebalance.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #25
DAH
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DAH's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Yeah, they don't match unless you type them in. That does seem like the marketing blurb from Ozone 8. Regardless, 9 is a worthy upgrade just for realtime music rebalance.
I cannot see how the way of adjusting a control in a plug-in, be it mousing or typing, can change the settings value when the digits in the numeric setting value field are the same. Rounding errors? If so, it is a pure bug and the number of digits in the setting value field must display the real level of precision, not a rounded value. Recalls anyone with a necessity to record down the adjusting method?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #26
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH View Post
I cannot see how the way of adjusting a control in a plug-in, be it mousing or typing, can change the settings value when the digits in the numeric setting value field are the same. Rounding errors? If so, it is a pure bug and the number of digits in the setting value field must display the real level of precision, not a rounded value. Recalls anyone with a necessity to record down the adjusting method?
It’s very simple. If you click on a slider value, you will see a finer value than what you see without clicking on it. Ie -1.1 becomes -1.1253 etc. It would be to cluttering to show exact values in every text field.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #27
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marchhare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
It’s very simple. If you click on a slider value, you will see a finer value than what you see without clicking on it. Ie -1.1 becomes -1.1253 etc. It would be to cluttering to show exact values in every text field.
And...they null now! I've been using Ozone on and off since 5 and I never had the inclination once to manually enter the threshold. I learned something new.
Why did it sound better to me? And why did they tell me it was improved?
And why did they write that in the ad copy?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #28
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marchhare View Post
And...they null now! I've been using Ozone on and off since 5 and I never had the inclination once to manually enter the threshold. I learned something new.
Why did it sound better to me? And why did they tell me it was improved?
And why did they write that in the ad copy?
I thought it sounded better because the sliders were fatter looking, and also I had mismatched the settings and set 9 better. But really it was the fatter looking sliders.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #29
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marchhare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I thought it sounded better because the sliders were fatter looking, and also I had mismatched the settings and set 9 better. But really it was the fatter looking sliders.
The slider thing makes sense, thanks.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #30
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macc's Avatar
 

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Yeah, just to chime in and say Ozone goes to something like 6 decimal places unless you enter the numbers. Sort of ridiculous, sort of handy.

Thanks for the info everyone. I doubt I'd use the Rebalance thing enough to justify the cost to be honest, and I have RX7. Not too many vocal tracks here, mostly that bomp bomp stuff.
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