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my interests in this forum are dwindling and i don't seem to be the only one
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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teebaum's Avatar
my interests in this forum are dwindling and i don't seem to be the only one

my interests in this forum are dwindling day by day - and i don't seem to be the only one.

many of the engineers i was happy to contribute to seem to be less and less here or at least hardly writing any more.

it seems to be a general phenomenon that forums are losing importance, but i noticed it only in the last months.

is it just my point of view or does it seem similar to you?
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Gear Nut
 

I don't think it's necessarily losing importance, but like many things there's an ebb and flow to it. The other social media sites get views, but I don't like those formats. I started using forums (at least forum like software) around 1984-1985. That's the format I like best. Within those years I've had more or less interest at times depending on life, career, etc.

For myself, I read a lot here, but post/reply pretty infrequently. I'm not sure that I've even started a thread myself. I'm thankful for the insight that I get from individuals such as yourself that I wouldn't easily obtain otherwise.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Addict
 

I started lurking here around 2000 and joined a few years later, spending a fair amount of time every day for over 12 years, took a break as I got more into video work, and have recently come back in the past 6 months. Some things feel the same, but one thing I've noticed is what appears to be a sharp increase in hostile posting, argumentative behavior, and generally bad vibes. I'm not sure what it is, but it feels like the worst parts of social media have crept in here as well. Maybe that's driving some people away...
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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drezz's Avatar
Most people on here are amateurs who don't know what they are talking about and are too justified in their false sense of entitlement to know when to quit. Noob chest puffing is off the radar, when, really, people at the start of their journeys should really listen to those who know more than they, but that doesn't seem to be the nature of mostly anonymous people on the internet.

I leaned so much from this forum from those who really knew the shizz when i was getting into starting my recording career. Unfortunately a lot of those pros have disappeared over the years, or been scared off by the hordes of opinionated knee jerk reactionists.

On a more positive note, there still are great threads with amazingly knowledgeable folks, and there is still some cameraderie and fantastic info and debate on certain threads and topics, you just have to sniff it out or gravitate to the right threads.

Gearslutz still has magic tucked away in the right places.

Last edited by drezz; 1 week ago at 10:52 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
my interests in this forum are dwindling day by day - and i don't seem to be the only one.

many of the engineers i was happy to contribute to seem to be less and less here or at least hardly writing any more.

it seems to be a general phenomenon that forums are losing importance, but i noticed it only in the last months.

is it just my point of view or does it seem similar to you?
It probably means you have arrived at the top of the heap of specialized knowledge. At a certain point there is nothing really new for you to learn from the group and your presence starts to become a one way affair. This is great for the others who are still in climbing mode, but it will ask from you to reinvent your role in the forum. Many good engineers have gone before you. When a process like this happens too fast the overall level of conversation will go down and a forum can loose its appeal entirely.

It would be sensible when GS would take measures to prevent the loss of knowledgeable people who are willing to share. A while back it was made impossible for newbies to post in the mastering forum. I thought that was a very good idea, so the quality of the conversation would not deteriorate too fast. We're living in a time where everybody wants (sometimes highly specialized) answers fast, but is not willing to make a commitment to build their own chest of empirical knowledge. Maybe GS should create the ability to vote for the members that contribute the most useful answers in their respective fields of expertise, so that newbies would know when to pay attention and listen for a moment. Just a thought.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Culture has changed. 6 years ago this forum was about gettin the best sound.
Now it's about getting close to the sound for cheap.

Mixing used to be a performance before everything could be automated. Now everybody wants the ability to recall and adjust every last detail 6 months after it was mixed.

It's great that more people can afford to record and mix audio. It's also a curse. People are not learning for others in person any more.

regaurding the post before this one. They best thing they could do is split up the forum into ITB and OTB.


I'm a great example of mid-level experties. I don't do Audio for a living any more, some things I know, some things I don't.
Low enough level I have the time to answer noob questions. But some things I give my best guess to try and help without really knowing.

My interest is also falling. Mainly because I have learned what I can from the Forum. Further time will not really gain me that much information. It's just a habbit to come here when it should no longer be. It does keep me up on the latest products.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by drezz View Post
Most people on here are amateurs who don't know what they are talking about and are too justified in their false sense of entitlement to know when to quit. Noob chest puffing is off the radar, when really people at the start of their journeys should really listen to those who know more than they, but that doesn't seem to be the nature of mostly anonymous people on the internet.

I leaned so much from this forum from those who really knew the shizz when i was getting into starting my recording career. Unfortunately a lot of those pros have disappeared over the years, or been scared off by the hordes of opinionated knee jerk reactionists.

On a more positive note, there still are great threads with amazingly knowledgeable folks, and there is still some cameraderie and fantastic info and debate on certain threads and topics, you just have to sniff it out or gravitate to the right threads.

Gearslutz still has magic tucked away in the right places.
Sad, but true!

I rather spend my time with paying clients, the family, friend and with sports than getting forced into another senseless annoying discussion with someone who do not even try to understand what was said...?
Its the same everywhere; I left some german forums in the past because of that, and I left social media etc because of that. Its just a waste of time and energy and mental health to me.

Last edited by JP__; 1 week ago at 08:33 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Head
 
S_mask's Avatar
 

The first rule of Gear-bom is: You do not talk about Gear-bom.


- Tyler Steveland
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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mirochandler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Sad, but true!

I rather spend my time with paying clients, the family, friend, sports and with sports than getting forced into another senceless annoying discussion with someone who do not even try to understand what was said...?
Its the same everywhere; I left some german forums in the past because of that, and I left social media etc because of that. Its just a waste of time and energy and mental health to me.
correct
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Many of the older gear/technique-specific threads are as relevant today as they were 10-15 years ago. Sage wisdom from a 'golden age' of mastering engineers.

Mastering is changing and I think the forum reflects this.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Hippocratic Mastering's Avatar
Personally I go through phases of whether I want to immerse myself in Audio World after I leave the studio or not. At the moment I'd rather think about other things, and keep shop-talk in the shop. Burnout is the alternative.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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X-Pand Sound Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I've always had "ups and downs" with Gearslutz. Sometimes it's just terrible to argue with "narrowminded" individuals, that are actually "arguing" and not "discussing", and furthermore just for the sake of beeing right...
But as Drezz mentionned there are always those very interesting threads where some knowledge, and even wisdom, can be "exchanged"

Now I never understood why "newcomers" could post into the Mastering forum.
Nothing against newcomers, I was one myself as we all were at some points, so I don't mean to "ban" them, but there must be an alternative we can think off.

Also let's not forget it's summer time I always took some time OFF Gearslutz (and even internet) in august and happily came back in September.
I don't know about you guys but where I live it's almost 40°C everyday now, so at the moment I'm more into a refreshing beer than a refreshing thread

Last edited by X-Pand Sound Mastering; 1 week ago at 11:35 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
my interests in this forum are dwindling day by day - and i don't seem to be the only one.

many of the engineers i was happy to contribute to seem to be less and less here or at least hardly writing any more.

it seems to be a general phenomenon that forums are losing importance, but i noticed it only in the last months.

is it just my point of view or does it seem similar to you?
It's the rise of "Astroturfing"

It's been around for a while but seems to me that about 5 years ago, the floodgates opened...or should I say...The Sump-Pump flooded.

Online forums (Not just GS) were INVADED by a LEGION (Yes, intentional use of the word) of phony schills, to the point where every 3-4 post was one.

As their job is to defend their employer's products (Products that don't need defending, don't need Astroturfers) Threads all over the internet were devolving into poop-slinging toxic water-slides...(Think back..You will probably remember when it started getting intolerable) with the Astroturfers acting as agent provocateurs.

My suggestion? Less internet...It ain't gettin' any better.

Old 1 week ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
drezz's Avatar
Good thread.

How about: ''Let's make Gearslutz great again'...............

Er, on second thoughts..............

Seriously though, i stand by the premise that the good guys, and those with skills and knowledge need to stick around.

Great comments in this thread though. So many things on GS are left unspoken. The flaming and bickering in some threads is so classic. I very often read threads where someone makes an inflammatory comment, usually by someone addressed to or quoted from another on the thread. it's at this point i wait for the accused to pipe up a few posts later to retaliate to the accuser, and from there on in ................ and the whole thing goes to, well y'know (insert expletive)............

See any Behringer thread for examples, you might be there all day sifting through the wreckage.

why can't we go back to arguing about U47 capsules and perving over REDD desks.

Ah, the good old days....................
Old 1 week ago
  #15
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teebaum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Sad, but true!

I rather spend my time with paying clients, the family, friend and with sports than getting forced into another senseless annoying discussion with someone who do not even try to understand what was said...?
Its the same everywhere; I left some german forums in the past because of that, and I left social media etc because of that. Its just a waste of time and energy and mental health to me.
i don't see it quite as extreme as you do, but it's certainly the case that input/output from this forum and the social media has become alarmingly bad.

there are still some people here whose input i really appreciate and with whose i would like to talk without "noise", but all in all it's not worth the effort anymore and to think to bring GZ or FB customers and help networking is to a large part a illusion - unfortunately i had hoped to be able to networking without so many occasions with bad prosecco and annoying music :-)

perhaps there would be measures to improve the quality here, so that more experienced people would be more present again, otherwise GZ will probably become meaningless in the medium term.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Gear Guru
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Things are not what they were 10 years ago. 10 years ago we still had famous, respected and approachable mastering engineers posting on this forum. They have mostly all left. Chased off by newbies that started fights with them or called them out for "not being with it" or arguing for the sake of arguing. The people who are here are, for the most part, very nice people but they don't have the same "star power" of the ones who were here 10 years ago. We also have people who hide behind nome de plumes and will not put their real names or locations on their signatures. Some of these people are very opinionated but there is no way to check them out to see what their real world status is.

Another problem is mastering is not, by all accounts, as profitable as it was 10 years ago so people are having to spend more time chasing clients and advertising which cuts out their time for posting in forums.

This is still a GREAT forum and I have learned much here. Hopefully the forum will continue and will get better and better. I remember a good friend of mine who said "when learning a new skill it is better to listen carefully than to speak from ignorance" maybe some of the newbies need to heed that sage advice. FWIW
Old 1 week ago
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Hippocratic Mastering's Avatar
I think it's also true that, once you've doing this professionally for a long time, there reaches a point where it's impossible to explain your reasoning without giving a detailed explantation on your entire workflow and how you arrived at it. There are no standards, so advice is often meaningless from one person to the next.

That, combined with widespread misassumptions from non-MEs (which is fair enough, everyone has to start somewhere), create an environment where the idea of posting just feels exhausting.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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drezz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
bad prosecco and annoying music :-)


Nearly spilt my coffee over the laptop laughing at that one.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
I'm amazed at how rude and passive-aggressive some of the older threads are; High-End and Mastering. It is highly-entertaining!

Some great points in this thread; to add, there is definitely a shift in how knowledge is transferred...from top-down, master to apprentice...to horizontal, peer-to-peer. This is a good and (very) bad thing.

I've noticed the astro-turfing over the past 10 years; always challenge it with truth.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Lives for gear
Maybe what we need to liven this place back up is a nice thread about clipping.

Or maybe dither. You guys use dither? Yeah me too.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
(...) Maybe GS should create the ability to vote for the members that contribute the most useful answers in their respective fields of expertise, so that newbies would know when to pay attention and listen for a moment.
i started a thread on exactly this topic (in another forum though): it got shut down by the mods within hours...

i'm not posting very often in this forum as my main occupation is live mixing and broadcasting; i did master ca. 500 albums within the last 35 years though so i consider myself somewhat experienced and keep lurking around here.
however, this forum in particular seems to be a very hostile place (i recently got shouted down only 'cause i do not consider clipping d/a converters to be a very sensible technique).
i wish there would be four sub categories in this forum:

- for newbies
- for pros
- gear related/technical discussions
- all other topics

this i think could help to keep some of the noise out, at least in some of the threads! wouldn't hurt in other forum too...
Old 1 week ago
  #22
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
Maybe GS should create the ability to vote for the members that contribute the most useful answers in their respective fields of expertise, so that newbies would know when to pay attention and listen for a moment. Just a thought.
Great idea!
AND... maybe some of the longtime misinformers and nonsense peddlers would get a hint as to how they are not taken seriously by knowledgeable forum members.

The 10-year certificates and such are, I think, intended by forum design and taken by newbies as an endorsement that this person can be trusted to give good information. Usually that is true, but unfortunately there are also some longtime nutcases who have the certificates but tear down the credibility of GS in general and the trust that should be associated with those certificates.

An example: there is a longtime poster who shows up to ruin every thread he posts in by aggressively asserting at length that the big hits of the 70s and 80s were looped repeatedly through hard-driven analogue gear and real tape machines at saturation levels to achieve their magical hit sound.
It is almost criminal to leave his posts unanswered as a false treasure map for newbies, but in practice it is almost equally wrong to correct him, because it turns the thread into a loop of its own where he hammers unrelentingly that you are an idiot and liar, and that he is the veteran with the true and juicy inside story. Those kind of exchanges do unknown harm to GS, and they tend to drive out knowledgeable people who don’t care for nasty exchanges. I’m still here because I am willing to push back almost endlessly against untruth and incivility... BUT, that is certainly not my most positive quality and is undoubtedly off-putting to people who are here simply looking for good ideas and practices.
I can state the problem... maybe some credibility rating could be a solution.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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Justin P.'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
If this forum dies, how will we find the best free plugin to master to -14 LUFS and make a DDP, and why doesn't my CD-Text appear in iTunes, and what expensive thing should I buy instead of treating my room?

Also, do you mono the bass at 100Hz or 200Hz?

That's what many of the mastering forums have turned into now.

Last edited by Justin P.; 1 week ago at 08:02 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Gear Nut
I was dogpiled several months ago for calling out a Top40 shill "with a PhD in music" selling some garbage about the pentatonic scale and listed examples of how it is the focus of todays popular music. I'm a gear noob, which is why I am mainly here; I gained a lot of knowledge from many posters here. But I'm also a composition graduate of one of the highest rated conservatories in Europe. One of those 10+year posters (who makes a living making derivative junk for big names in the business, no surprise there) claimed my rebuttal as drunken ramblings because it was a late night posting, and others defended him. Meanwhile the Top40 guy shilling his website never responded to my rebuttals - as his idea of what constituted 5 note scales or 6 note scales etc was clearly wrong. IMO it is dangerous and haphazard for a PhD in music (probably from some unknown university) to tout wrong ideas and mislead people.
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpyter View Post
I was dogpiled several months ago for calling out a Top40 shill "with a PhD in music" selling some garbage about the pentatonic scale and listed examples of how it is the focus of todays popular music. I'm a gear noob, which is why I am mainly here; I gained a lot of knowledge from many posters here. But I'm also a composition graduate of one of the highest rated conservatories in Europe. One of those 10+year posters (who makes a living making derivative junk for big names in the business, no surprise there) claimed my rebuttal as drunken ramblings because it was a late night posting, and others defended him. Meanwhile the Top40 guy shilling his website never responded to my rebuttals - as his idea of what constituted 5 note scales or 6 note scales etc was clearly wrong. IMO it is dangerous and haphazard for a PhD in music (probably from some unknown university) to tout wrong ideas and mislead people.
You forgot to put PhD in quotes in the second use. Titles and claims of experience made here are not easily verified. That’s a less frequent but related problem.
Old 1 week ago
  #26
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lowland's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I well remember some person attempting a couple of years ago to be rude to Chris Athens with no inkling as to who he was, and getting royally rocketed - one of the lighter moments here

Dunning-Kruger is on display in this forum from time to time, people who don't know the extent of what they don't know - not unlike myself before the turn of the century! While everyone has to start somewhere and deserves a certain amount of leeway, there have been times when the only answer I could give has been 'carry on mastering for another ten years and you'll truly understand that' - while not my intention to be dismissive or flippant but give a genuine response, saying that a while back on another forum made one beginner who wanted instant answers very angry with me.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect
Old 1 week ago
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
Maybe GS should create the ability to vote for the members that contribute the most useful answers in their respective fields of expertise, so that newbies would know when to pay attention and listen for a moment. Just a thought.
This is the model for StackOverflow where programmers vote up questions and answers they think are correct or most useful. It sounds like a good idea, but the problem is the discrimination and knowledge/experience of a lot of the voters is low, so the outcome is still poor. Often, up-voted answers are not the correct or best solution.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
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Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt View Post
This is the model for StackOverflow where programmers vote up questions and answers they think are correct or most useful. It sounds like a good idea, but the problem is the discrimination and knowledge/experience of a lot of the voters is low, so the outcome is still poor. Often, up-voted answers are not the correct or best solution.
My suggestion would be to be able to give credibility points to fellow members, not to posts, whereas newbies cannot vote in the first two years of membership. Or something along those lines. It also should be possible to retract your points, in case the valued member would go gaga.
Old 1 week ago
  #29
I still believe that this is the best online forum for getting good information on the gear that we use daily rather than a hangout place.
Old 1 week ago
  #30
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Ben F's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Hasn’t everyone just moved to the Facebook groups? It’s like Gearslutz all over again on Facebook.
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