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Track looses it's depth with Ozone Maximizer
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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veks's Avatar
Track looses it's depth with Ozone Maximizer

I noticed that track sounds much better without maximizing it on 10 LUFS. Should i leave it on -6 db as is on default?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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Shawn Hatfield's Avatar
Limiters by nature alter the relationships in your mix and the more you push them, the flatter things become. I suggest only limiting to a point where the mix retains the character and vibe you seek and stop there. There's no default amount in this line of work, and the only thing you can trust is your ears. If you're not getting the loudness you want without damaging the mix, then it's often a good idea to revisit the mix and see how you can improve things there to avoid a heavy handed approach in mastering.

Just my two cents.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
I'd add that some of the newer Ozone algortithms (IRC IV?) are multiband, so they are likely to change mix relationships even more than the older ones, when pushed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
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Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this!

Doctor: Well, then DON"T DO THAT!
(Old as hell, but still valuable advice!)
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Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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lowland's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by veks View Post
I noticed that track sounds much better without maximizing it on 10 LUFS. Should i leave it on -6 db as is on default?
How much gain reduction are you pulling?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowland View Post
How much gain reduction are you pulling?
Hello. I put the threshold on -10.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this!

Doctor: Well, then DON"T DO THAT!
(Old as hell, but still valuable advice!)
.
Hello,

Yes, i think i will not use it anymore. It is far better decision in the long run.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocratic Mastering View Post
I'd add that some of the newer Ozone algortithms (IRC IV?) are multiband, so they are likely to change mix relationships even more than the older ones, when pushed.
Hello. Thank you for information. Yes, i use IRC IV. I think I am over with maximizing.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
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johannburkard's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by veks View Post
Hello. I put the threshold on -10.
He asked for gain reduction, not threshold.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
He asked for gain reduction, not threshold.
Hello,

I am on vacation right now. I will see the setup next week. Thanks.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
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veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Hatfield View Post
Limiters by nature alter the relationships in your mix and the more you push them, the flatter things become. I suggest only limiting to a point where the mix retains the character and vibe you seek and stop there. There's no default amount in this line of work, and the only thing you can trust is your ears. If you're not getting the loudness you want without damaging the mix, then it's often a good idea to revisit the mix and see how you can improve things there to avoid a heavy handed approach in mastering.

Just my two cents.
Hello,

Yes, this sounds logical. I will try this technique. Thank you for advice.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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lowland's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannburkard View Post
He asked for gain reduction, not threshold.


Limiters differ, but unless you're going for a deliberately squashed effect they'll have a point where, depending on the music, artefacts outweigh improvement.

I typically use a limiter as icing on the cake of loudness obtained by other means: from maybe 0.5 or 1dB of limiter gain reduction - if any - up to perhaps 3dB maximum, again material-dependent.

It's worth bearing in mind that often a number of small mastering moves working together will get a better result than a single large one.

Last edited by lowland; 3 weeks ago at 03:13 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
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veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowland View Post


Limiters differ, but unless you're going for a deliberately squashed effect they'll have a point where, depending on the music, artefacts outweigh improvement.

I typically use a limiter as icing on the cake of loudness obtained by other means: from maybe 0.5 or 1dB of limiter gain reduction - if any - up to perhaps 3dB maximum, again material-dependent.

Worth bearing in mind that often a number of small mastering moves working together will get a better result than a single large one.
Hello, Ok. I will try this at home. Thank you.

Last edited by veks; 3 weeks ago at 03:35 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
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Ozone is one of the easier limiters to set the threshold level. At least they give you some nice graphic animations to show you how much the limiter is affecting the signal. I usually never go beyond 4dbs of gain reduction regardless. And also, I will never drop the character slider below 2.0 or beyond 5.0.

2.0 and below will turn the limiter into a soft clipper all the way down to clipping at 0.0. and 5.0-10 is usually too slow/soft for my tastes. Btw, I make electronic music, so you may benefit from different settings or a different limiter altogether. I feel that Ozone works better for a harder type of music.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossd25 View Post
Ozone is one of the easier limiters to set the threshold level. At least they give you some nice graphic animations to show you how much the limiter is affecting the signal. I usually never go beyond 4dbs of gain reduction regardless. And also, I will never drop the character slider below 2.0 or beyond 5.0.

2.0 and below will turn the limiter into a soft clipper all the way down to clipping at 0.0. and 5.0-10 is usually too slow/soft for my tastes. Btw, I make electronic music, so you may benefit from different settings or a different limiter altogether. I feel that Ozone works better for a harder type of music.


Hello,

The attached image is EQ Match pink noise curve. The track is much cleaner now and with much more energy in mids and highs. I don't need Massey CT5 compressor or Exciter on highs now. What do You think about this technique?

I put character slider to 2,28. Yes, it is faster than 5. I want that punch in music.

I guess that I pushed Threshold to much. Would be -14 or -16 LUFS ok for electronic music?

This is the link on Pond5 without eq (i didn't publish the track yet):
https://www.pond5.com/royalty-free-m...s-black-market

Thank You for Your time.

Regards,
Vedran
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by veks View Post


Hello,

The attached image is EQ Match pink noise curve. The track is much cleaner now and with much more energy in mids and highs. I don't need Massey CT5 compressor or Exciter on highs now. What do You think about this technique?

I put character slider to 2,28. Yes, it is faster than 5. I want that punch in music.

I guess that I pushed Threshold to much. Would be -14 or -16 LUFS ok for electronic music?

This is the link on Pond5 without eq (i didn't publish the track yet):
https://www.pond5.com/royalty-free-m...s-black-market

Thank You for Your time.

Regards,
Vedran
-14 is the standard LUFS for Spotify, I believe. Of course, commercial CDs are much louder than that. To be honest, I spend most of my time trying to get things right in the mix before using a limiter. For instance, I am really against using EQ in mastering. If your master is missing something, then it's best to go back into the mix and fix it rather than putting an EQ curve onto the entire track and affecting the balance between instruments. That's just me, though. Other than that, Ozone is my go to limiter, but sometimes I will use AOM Invisible Limiter because that will have a cleaner sound.

The bottom line is that if it sounds good, then it is good. There are no presets and absolute ways of doing things, just a ton of different possibilities.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
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veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossd25 View Post
-14 is the standard LUFS for Spotify, I believe. Of course, commercial CDs are much louder than that. To be honest, I spend most of my time trying to get things right in the mix before using a limiter. For instance, I am really against using EQ in mastering. If your master is missing something, then it's best to go back into the mix and fix it rather than putting an EQ curve onto the entire track and affecting the balance between instruments. That's just me, though. Other than that, Ozone is my go to limiter, but sometimes I will use AOM Invisible Limiter because that will have a cleaner sound.

The bottom line is that if it sounds good, then it is good. There are no presets and absolute ways of doing things, just a ton of different possibilities.
Hello,

Ok, i thinned low end out with Massey and Glue, and added highs and little bit of mids with Exciter. I guess it is simillar now as pink noise curve. Yes, better not to use that.

Thank you for limiter tips. Very usefull.

Cheers.

Last edited by veks; 2 weeks ago at 03:05 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #18
Gear Addict
 
veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossd25 View Post
-14 is the standard LUFS for Spotify, I believe. Of course, commercial CDs are much louder than that. To be honest, I spend most of my time trying to get things right in the mix before using a limiter. For instance, I am really against using EQ in mastering. If your master is missing something, then it's best to go back into the mix and fix it rather than putting an EQ curve onto the entire track and affecting the balance between instruments. That's just me, though. Other than that, Ozone is my go to limiter, but sometimes I will use AOM Invisible Limiter because that will have a cleaner sound.

The bottom line is that if it sounds good, then it is good. There are no presets and absolute ways of doing things, just a ton of different possibilities.

Hello,

Ok, i got back to the mix with hesitation because i used WOW filter which renders differently every time. I had to cut instruments much higher to clean muddy low end out. I even started to adding highs and mids to some samples. I just used Maximizer till -14 LUFS on master. I started to appreciate good speakers (Sonodyne SM200). Music now has enough energy. Thanks for the tip.

Cheers,
Vedran
Old 6 days ago
  #19
Gear Addict
 
veks's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossd25 View Post
-14 is the standard LUFS for Spotify, I believe. Of course, commercial CDs are much louder than that. To be honest, I spend most of my time trying to get things right in the mix before using a limiter. For instance, I am really against using EQ in mastering. If your master is missing something, then it's best to go back into the mix and fix it rather than putting an EQ curve onto the entire track and affecting the balance between instruments. That's just me, though. Other than that, Ozone is my go to limiter, but sometimes I will use AOM Invisible Limiter because that will have a cleaner sound.

The bottom line is that if it sounds good, then it is good. There are no presets and absolute ways of doing things, just a ton of different possibilities.
Hello. I have one more question. Should I export file for mastering at -6db? Because I used only Maximizer on my last track? Would be better -0.3db?
Old 5 days ago
  #20
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by veks View Post
Hello. I have one more question. Should I export file for mastering at -6db? Because I used only Maximizer on my last track? Would be better -0.3db?
You should probably leave the maximizer off until the final mastering phase. Most mastering engineers like to have a little bit of headroom to work with when they receive a mixdown. Yes, -6dbs is more than enough headroom for mastering.
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