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No budget for a Bryston. Any alternatives? Mixers (Analog)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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No budget for a Bryston. Any alternatives?

I am looking for a solution to biamp a pair of lipinski 505 on a tight budget. I currently have a nad208 thx that for my ears does a good job. Sadly i don t have the option to listen to different amps, so i don t actually know what kind of improvement should i expect from a higher end brand. Actually, the reason i m looking for a different amp is that i belive the speakers will sound better biamped.

Thanks!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
I crossgraded from a Bryston 3b to a slightly cheaper Hypex UCD 400, and last year upgraded that to the Nord NC500DM (a pre-packaged Hypex with slightly better specs than the UCD 400). I much preferred the UCD 400 to the Bryston, and although the Nord is an upgrade on that the UCD 400 was a great amp. I think it cost me about £400 used.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
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mirochandler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrc View Post
I am looking for a solution to biamp a pair of lipinski 505 on a tight budget. I currently have a nad208 thx that for my ears does a good job. Sadly i don t have the option to listen to different amps, so i don t actually know what kind of improvement should i expect from a higher end brand. Actually, the reason i m looking for a different amp is that i belive the speakers will sound better biamped.

Thanks!
Yes, bi-amping can improve the sound… - but makes only sense if your acoustic is already on a good/high level.

Around 20 years ago when I listened and sometimes worked on a Bryston/PMC combo (tri-amped) does not impressed me at all.
Back then I have not understood why such a sound costs so much of money.
At that time I also had an NAD and later Hypex.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
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Thanks for your replys!

Acoustics is another thing i m looking to improve. I am actually going to move to a bigger room soon, but that s another topic.
I m not really sure if i should consider d-class. Some say it s a no go, some like it. I ve listened to d-class powered ocean way monitors and i really liked the sound.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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If you can find one this is one heck of a good sounding amplifier ADCOM GA535MKII. I use it when I have to send my Bryston's back for repair. Class A outputs means it runs somewhat hot AND it is only 60 Watts per channel but they are BIG watts <GRIN>, Seriously this is a GREAT amplifier. FWIW
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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teebaum's Avatar
icepower

i prefer them clearly over hypex
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
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philip's Avatar
 

Nad 208 is one of the best amps ever made. You won't get any improvement with a class d amps, forget the adcom as well. A Bryston class a/b will improve the sound though...

Last edited by philip; 3 weeks ago at 07:17 PM.. Reason: Autocorrect
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
icepower

i prefer them clearly over hypex
Interesting.

I would just add one note to that.

Not all amps with Hypex modules necessarily sounds the same.
There can be differences between modules (naturally), there are variations among power supplies (eg. standard vs smps). Also some vendors has special modules or tweak them specially for their amps.

For example I've used NAD M22 (first version) and it had both custom designed switched power supply (not the one from Hypex) and additional circuitry modifying feedback loop characteristics.
And yes, in certain situations it sounded different from other DIY build with standard UcD modules.

Similarly I think, one can find similar differences among applications of ICEPower modules at different amps.
To be honest, I haven't heard or compared much of studio or hi-fi amps with ICEPower modules, but saw those a lot in bass amps (best friend is bassist and used among 5-6 different class-d amps in 10 y or so, and I'm bit of a geek regarding that, so tried lot of them.. compared their power amp stages). There was certainly differences in implementations, but even with common bridged stereo ICEPower module, it handled overloads and peaks differently for example.

My main point of that is, I'm not sure, if I could generally say Hypex < ICEPower, Anamod < Hypex or whatever.. without considering particular implementation details.
Of course, there are products, where vendors or builders use just OEM/DIY modules and done. But there can be cases (at least couple interviews with designers, I've read), where they evaluate and select some suitable OEM module and further modify it to their taste for final product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philip View Post
Nad 208 is one of the best amps ever made. You won't get any improvement with a class d amps, forget the adcom as well. A Bryston class a/b will improve the sound though...
I agree with 208, I also happen love those older NAD power amps. It can sound very dynamic and give certain "drive" to sound.
Sometimes happens, that other amp can have lower overal distortion, stable stereo imaging etc., but in combination with certain speakers ends as less preferred compared to amps like those older NADs. After years and maybe despite of various objective measurement criteria and attributes, I still think, it's mostly about kind of right subjective matching between speakers and amp, which is sometimes bit hard to judge before you can listen to particular combination.

Where I honestly don't agree, it's all catching classification of Class-D or A/B amps.. I've heard and seen so much variance in both groups (from mediocre to great sounding) at different contexts, that it doesn't apply IMHO.

Michal
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
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teebaum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
Interesting.

I would just add one note to that.

Not all amps with Hypex modules necessarily sounds the same.
There can be differences between modules (naturally), there are variations among power supplies (eg. standard vs smps). Also some vendors has special modules or tweak them specially for their amps.

For example I've used NAD M22 (first version) and it had both custom designed switched power supply (not the one from Hypex) and additional circuitry modifying feedback loop characteristics.
And yes, in certain situations it sounded different from other DIY build with standard UcD modules.

Similarly I think, one can find similar differences among applications of ICEPower modules at different amps.
To be honest, I haven't heard or compared much of studio or hi-fi amps with ICEPower modules, but saw those a lot in bass amps (best friend is bassist and used among 5-6 different class-d amps in 10 y or so, and I'm bit of a geek regarding that, so tried lot of them.. compared their power amp stages). There was certainly differences in implementations, but even with common bridged stereo ICEPower module, it handled overloads and peaks differently for example.

My main point of that is, I'm not sure, if I could generally say Hypex < ICEPower, Anamod < Hypex or whatever.. without considering particular implementation details.
Of course, there are products, where vendors or builders use just OEM/DIY modules and done. But there can be cases (at least couple interviews with designers, I've read), where they evaluate and select some suitable OEM module and further modify it to their taste for final product.


Michal
besides the sonic aspects, where i don't have an overview of all models, of course, there is also the aspect, how the company communicates with the users, how well the modules are documented, how many percent failures you have, how the company responds to problems (e.g. vibrating elements, if the modules are installed in speakers) etc.

because hypex also sells to DIY customers, their effort in supporting them will be much higher than with icepower, which has relatively high minimum order quantities - but can offer more intensive support to these (fewer) customers.

icepower also convinced me with regard to impulse fidelity, ground noise and distortion.
but the differences to hypex are rather nuances.

my overall experience has convinced me more of icepower.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
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mirochandler's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
there is also the aspect, how the company communicates with the users, how well the modules are documented, how many percent failures you have, how the company responds to problems
That is how I see it also. I have my experiences regarding them.
Are you satisfied with the reliability of the Icepower?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post
besides the sonic aspects, where i don't have an overview of all models, of course, there is also the aspect, how the company communicates with the users, how well the modules are documented, how many percent failures you have, how the company responds to problems (e.g. vibrating elements, if the modules are installed in speakers) etc.

because hypex also sells to DIY customers, their effort in supporting them will be much higher than with icepower, which has relatively high minimum order quantities - but can offer more intensive support to these (fewer) customers.

icepower also convinced me with regard to impulse fidelity, ground noise and distortion.
but the differences to hypex are rather nuances.

my overall experience has convinced me more of icepower.
Hi Dan,

thanks for expanding about your experience with ICEPower. I almost forget, you've also made own active monitors with Jan (Karumba). Btw. good luck with it
And sorry, Anamod should be Anaview in my post, I'm apparently full of tape sims lately

Michal
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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teebaum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirochandler View Post
That is how I see it also. I have my experiences regarding them.
Are you satisfied with the reliability of the Icepower?
absolutely, we didn't have a single problem yet and yet we already had quite a few power amplifiers built into our speakers.
also the support and the documentation are first class.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
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i have been driving a pair of tad/augspurger speakers with a yamaha mx-1 power amp for years
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
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Emotiva is not bad. I'm using a pair of 500w mono blocks from them for Magnaplaner 1.7. But it is a step down in quality that I traded for the watts.

Long ago I use a Halfler. If you find one of those used they are fantastic for monitors.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

I was very happy with the Hypex Ncore 400's .
They were a very easy diy build and they sounded very clean even when pushed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
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parisminzer's Avatar
 

Recently got an amp built with the Anaview 1000’s. In essence the exact same build as an Amphion Amp 900 (two modules bridged running 580w into PMC MB2’s). I’ve run both hypex Ncore 400 and UCD400. Not going back.
Righteous sound. Was also looking at Ice Power options at the time too, but happy with what I got now.

I blew every Hypex that I ever came across, but I also push the MB2’s very hard every day....so 400W was in hindsight probably was a little light (not very technical over here when it comes to wattage and speakers)

Those Nord Amps look really cool too.

Whatever floats your boat. Good affordable options everywhere.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
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Chris Wilson's Avatar
The Audiogon classifieds often have good deals on used Brystons. Even the newer (cubed) models.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip View Post
Nad 208 is one of the best amps ever made. You won't get any improvement with a class d amps, forget the ADCOM as well. A Bryston class a/b will improve the sound though...
Care to elaborate on your dishing of the ADCOM?
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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philip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Care to elaborate on your dishing of the ADCOM?
Yes sir, some years ago (10-15) I read here that adcom was the bomb. A hidden gem that only a few people knew about. So I picked one up, and yes it sounds good, but it's not up to par with bryston, old rotel or nad 208, really not the same league. Looking at the specs confirms this. All the best, Philip
Old 1 week ago
  #20
I replaced Brystons with Adcoms in several LA studios some 25 years ago. Every client said they heard the improvements.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
I replaced Brystons with Adcoms in several LA studios some 25 years ago. Every client said they heard the improvements.
Now I remember, it was you who raved about them back in the days.
Old 1 week ago
  #22
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by philip View Post
Yes sir, some years ago (10-15) I read here that adcom was the bomb. A hidden gem that only a few people knew about. So I picked one up, and yes it sounds good, but it's not up to par with bryston, old rotel or nad 208, really not the same league. Looking at the specs confirms this. All the best, Philip
Did you have version I or II? Version II is what I have and it, IMHO, blows the lid off a lot of amps that cost 2 to 10 times as much, FWIW

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...orey-greenberg

And

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ad...amplifier.html

FWIW
Old 5 days ago
  #23
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by parisminzer View Post
Recently got an amp built with the Anaview 1000’s. In essence the exact same build as an Amphion Amp 900 (two modules bridged running 580w into PMC MB2’s). I’ve run both hypex Ncore 400 and UCD400. Not going back.
Righteous sound. Was also looking at Ice Power options at the time too, but happy with what I got now.

I blew every Hypex that I ever came across, but I also push the MB2’s very hard every day....so 400W was in hindsight probably was a little light (not very technical over here when it comes to wattage and speakers)

Those Nord Amps look really cool too.

Whatever floats your boat. Good affordable options everywhere.
Interesting. I have tried also 2 x Anaview1000 bridged with my MB2. They give 900W on 4Ohm. Very impressive impulse response and control in the Bass. But somehow the upper mids and highs sounding too aggressive to me compared to various Class AB amps. I would redo every mastering with them. Eventually i would use these for Bass but thats it. So i am back for a Rotal RB1090 right now and a Hothouse. Also tried different other ClassD amps. It was almost the same. I think it is a big hype. sounds different so lots of people like it and enjoy the new sound. But i felt stressed after a while when working with them. Just my experience.
I think those active loudspeaker manufacturers who use ClassD modify their speakers if they come with Class D that it works. But replacing a passive speaker with an amp is a drastic change in sound. It is just very profitable to use this technology compared to Class AB.

just my experience/opinion so far.

greetings

Andreas
Old 4 days ago
  #24
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Al Rogers's Avatar
 

The PS Audio Sprout100 integrated amp is doing a fine job of driving my Harbeth monitors which are rated at 83.5 dB sensitivity. It's won awards and garnered favorable reviews from the hifi magazines.

I bought the Sprout100 with a 30 day satisfaction guarantee direct from PS Audio. After auditioning it I kept it and sold my high dollar amp and preamp. It's certainly worth a listen and it's very nice that PS Audio gives you 30 days to return it if not satisfied.
Old 3 days ago
  #25
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philip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Did you have version I or II? Version II is what I have and it, IMHO, blows the lid off a lot of amps that cost 2 to 10 times as much, FWIW

https://www.stereophile.com/content/...orey-greenberg

And

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ad...amplifier.html

FWIW
You forgot this: https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

The amp I had before my nad 208 was really expensive as well. Price isn't always a good quality indicator.
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