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DMG Multiplicity - This Looks Interesting! Dynamics Plugins
Old 4 days ago
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGamble View Post
That's a phenomenal sentence. :o

But also we always do it because we find 99% of bugs in the first month, so its our way of saying sorry for that.

Dave.
Dave, I personally have no probs with those intro prices. In fact I even bought some DMGs this way I bet (without ever having real problems with any bugs btw).
But this panic regarding potential missed intro price seems a very common one here. Thats what my comment was aimed at, not your price politic which I really like (especially the lack of all those silly sales most others offers much too often). Your plug ins fully worth their price more than most others.

PS: while we are talking. I have two DMG accounts accidently for years. Is it possible to unite those?
Old 4 days ago
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SASMastering View Post
Can you ever really isolate specific parts of a mix? Not really there is always a trade off, it's your job to judge.
Hey Barry, long time.

I agree completely - but with time and familiarity this gets you closer to 'perfect' isolation than anything else I've ever used. Of course the signal determines everything, but this really can be utterly astounding when you find the right combination of detection/action/release shape etc. It's genuinely amazing.
Old 3 days ago
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Dave, I personally have no probs with those intro prices. In fact I even bought some DMGs this way I bet (without ever having real problems with any bugs btw).
But this panic regarding potential missed intro price seems a very common one here. Thats what my comment was aimed at, not your price politic which I really like (especially the lack of all those silly sales most others offers much too often). Your plug ins fully worth their price more than most others.

PS: while we are talking. I have two DMG accounts accidently for years. Is it possible to unite those?
Absolutely is - drop an email to [email protected] and we'll get it sorted

Dave.
Old 3 days ago
  #64
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polybonk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Hey Barry, long time.

I agree completely - but with time and familiarity this gets you closer to 'perfect' isolation than anything else I've ever used. Of course the signal determines everything, but this really can be utterly astounding when you find the right combination of detection/action/release shape etc. It's genuinely amazing.
Hey Macc. So how does it compare to doing similar things on the Gyraf G24?
Old 3 days ago
  #65
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Originally Posted by polybonk View Post
Hey Macc. So how does it compare to doing similar things on the Gyraf G24?
The optical compressor? Nothing like it, tbh :D Very different beasts.

The transient aspect has some similarity to the G21 at times, if set up right, but still doesn't have that magic about it. Very very nice though, just different.
Old 3 days ago
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
The optical compressor? Nothing like it, tbh :D Very different beasts.

The transient aspect has some similarity to the G21 at times, if set up right, but still doesn't have that magic about it. Very very nice though, just different.
Yeah not the same as the G21. That thing is magic.

Just wondering where you would reach for the the G24 instead and what kind of thing that you do with each? Interested in both and the differences.
Old 3 days ago
  #67
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With the G24 being a compressor, I tend to reach for it when I need compression

Just pulling yer leg - for me the G24 is at its best when it can be the main thing (if not the only thing) in the chain; the star of the show if you like. It has a signature ('colour' doesn't feel like the right word here) that just sounds beautiful by itself, especially on cleaner material where it can be truly stunning. I don't like it so much for heavily saturated or scratchy material. Incredible for well produced cleaner electronic stuff, not so much for scabby old breakbeats (well, sometimes...)

The variable feedforward/back is one of those 'why doesn't every compressor ever made have this?' things. It means you can perfectly tailor the compression to the material. I sometimes set it to 'ridiculous' (12dB GR or whatever) to get things set up and behaving about right, and then forget it's in. It's only the sound of the needle whacking the end stop that reminds me I should back off Then there's all the MS stuff and the fact there's two of them (two of it?)


Multiplicity has more in common with the G21 than the G24, let's put it that way. But not tooooo much in common with either, to be honest.

(^ desperate attempt to make this post on topic)
Old 3 days ago
  #68
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SASMastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macc View Post
Hey Barry, long time.

I agree completely - but with time and familiarity this gets you closer to 'perfect' isolation than anything else I've ever used. Of course the signal determines everything, but this really can be utterly astounding when you find the right combination of detection/action/release shape etc. It's genuinely amazing.
Hi Macc,

Yes, you are better placed to know having used it for a while. As is demonstrated by your lose bass keep kick preset, setting that up over a few plug ins would be very cumbersome, and the control would not be there, at least not in anything I have seen yet.

In the short time I have used it it feels like it is so precise you can tailor it to the extreme in frequency, time, spatial (M/S) and amplitude domains and do what many would think is magic.

99pct of the time we all just get on with the job but I think we can all sit and head scratch from time to time and wonder what the evolving job of mastering is. It is a tool like this that can extend what mastering can be, when required.

If we got great mixes all the time or mixes that can always be tweaked and nudged into a better place for us to work on (a la buried kick with tonnes of sub bass / dull snare with tonnes of 7kHz hats/ sibilant vocal with dull hat and snare etc. etc.) then we would not need this but when there is no recourse then this is where a tool like Multiplicity takes over.

Of course I have had no real time with it yet, 30mins is nothing but if you are familiar with any MB processing and dynamics/dyanamic eq it won't be that hard to pick up. Couple it with M/S and you can see the sculpting possibilites.

You don't want to have to do all that ideally but...

And if you can get to grips with something like this you can distance yourself even further from automated mastering. So I see a tool like this as kick in the teeth for automated mastering.

I don't feel threatened by it (it had no impact on my work as far as I know anyway) but there is not a mastering engineer that won't have thought about automated mastering at some level.

As far as the new tool I think I will initially learn it by doing routine dynamic spectral corrections (I tend to only see this as 1 to 2dB range in mastering, more tends to sound contrived with current tools), replace dynamic EQ's with it and try and extend the satisfation of the result with the extra tweaks. At least for learning it, and then maybe you need some more odd problems to see if you can get it to resolve more complicated issues.
Old 2 days ago
  #69
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Trakworx's Avatar
DSP Maxes Out

Are you guys using the oversampling in Multiplicity?

When loading presets with 7 or 8 bands I'm hitting my DSP ceiling in a session that has several other plugins running.

I'd love to hear thoughts on ways to conserve DSP and exactly how that impacts sound quality...
Old 2 days ago
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
Are you guys using the oversampling in Multiplicity?

When loading presets with 7 or 8 bands I'm hitting my DSP ceiling in a session that has several other plugins running.

I'd love to hear thoughts on ways to conserve DSP and exactly how that impacts sound quality...
i just started demoing it in a 44.1k session.
i found the oversampling didn't sound as good so have left it off so far- fwiw.

this is less complicated to use then i expected. dynamic bands sound very transparent. the wideband compression is surprisingly regal, big (never really thought that about a plug-in tbh). haven't added a 2nd xover yet, so haven't tested multiband comping-- not really interested in that. this could be a legit replacement for gliss eq though, which i've used for a long time as my main clean-up eq.
Old 1 day ago
  #71
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OS is off here since I start demoing a few days ago.
I havent used it as a real multiband comp yet and I think it still contains a huge amount of unexplored territory.
Dont know what or if DMG has really changed things under the hood in comparison to Essence (which I never was able to get to sound "right"), but Multiplicity feels more familiar immediately. It still feel kind of more technocratic than my go to DS-1, but preserving punch and 3D is astonishing.
To me the DS1 brings more musical character or even color to the game, which excels especially on vocals and inner balance of a 2-track. But it also tends to sound flat (might be due to more artefacts of the LP-filters) and unclean in the highs, but what fits quite some musical aesthetics. The Multiplicity stays definitely truer to the source, for the good and for the bad. So, I have the feel the DS-1 might lead to a "finished sound" faster in a way, while the Multiplicity might ask for another band with processing here and there (or a great analog chain).
I really havent planned to invest in more plug ins anytime soon, but even when not having much use for a traditional multi band comp still, the new DMG could be a real keeper...
Old 1 day ago
  #72
Could someone please explain why this would be worth having over a multiband dynamic eq...ie. Sonnox or HOFA?

Thanks...
Old 1 day ago
  #73
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Trakworx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by engmix View Post
Could someone please explain why this would be worth having over a multiband dynamic eq...ie. Sonnox or HOFA?

Thanks...
Well it's always about having whichever plugin helps you efficiently achieve your goals with the best sounding results, no? That's a decision we each must make for ourselves.

I'm still learning and evaluating Multiplicity - it takes time to learn this beast - but early results are very encouraging. So much control...

My main concern is that it's so complex that it will slow my workflow, but if I save my settings as presets as I go then that should streamline things in the long run.
Old 1 day ago
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
Well it's always about having whichever plugin helps you efficiently achieve your goals with the best sounding results, no? That's a decision we each must make for ourselves.

I'm still learning and evaluating Multiplicity - it takes time to learn this beast - but early results are very encouraging. So much control...

My main concern is that it's so complex that it will slow my workflow, but if I save my settings as presets as I go then that should streamline things in the long run.
Thanks for the response Justin. I was looking for a bit more of a technical why verses a workflow why. With that said I appreciate the point you make on speed of usage and potential creative mindset issues. Certainly just as if not more important than the technical stuff, but still curious to know what really is the difference between the two.
Old 1 day ago
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engmix View Post
Could someone please explain why this would be worth having over a multiband dynamic eq...ie. Sonnox or HOFA?

Thanks...
Just because it sounds better (or not). In my case Sonnox has won over Hofa everytime I compared them. Now I have hard times getting the Sonnox beating Multiplicity.
Im a very simple person when it comes to those kind of conclusions....
Featureset isnt my highest priority. To be true, to me the simpler the better (something I always liked about the Sonnox, just great and fast, but musical results without overthinking things). But in the end I just compare results.
Old 1 day ago
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Just because it sounds better (or not). In my case Sonnox has won over Hofa everytime I compared them. Now I have hard times getting the Sonnox beating Multiplicity.
Im a very simple person when it comes to those kind of conclusions....
Featureset isnt my highest priority. To be true, to me the simpler the better (something I always liked about the Sonnox, just great and fast, but musical results without overthinking things). But in the end I just compare results.
JP, I hear ya, I'm in no argument what so ever about anything to do with creativity, workflow, or in regards to end results. Those elements are always first and foremost to me the most important thing. I tend not to inquire about those things because I come to those conclusions on my own when I demo a particular unit or software, as I'm sure you do as well.

I'm curious on a "technical" level why some of you full time mastering engineers might gravitate towards using a dynamic eq or a multiband compressor. Again of course the sound and end result is always in the end the only factor to be considered. With that said there are technical differences between the two types of plugins. Maybe I just need to google the info Lol...but if someone wants to chime in as to some technical factors, that would be greatly appreciated. For instance I'm wondering if one uses different types of crossover filters or typology etc...
Old 22 hours ago
  #77
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polybonk's Avatar
Personally I reach for dynamic EQ when there's a resonant frequency poking out and causing a problem in the mix due to masking other instruments or just being too harsh or painful.

Another use with the upwards action and independent side chain can be to bring up a part that gets buried by another, eg pulling up a kick drum that gets killed by bass etc. Although I can't remember the last time I did that. I usually get changes to the mixdown if I have those kind of problems.
Old 20 hours ago
  #78
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Trakworx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by engmix View Post
I'm curious on a "technical" level why some of you full time mastering engineers might gravitate towards using a dynamic eq or a multiband compressor. Again of course the sound and end result is always in the end the only factor to be considered. With that said there are technical differences between the two types of plugins. Maybe I just need to google the info Lol...but if someone wants to chime in as to some technical factors, that would be greatly appreciated. For instance I'm wondering if one uses different types of crossover filters or typology etc...
DMG Multiplicity is both a multiband compressor and a dynamic EQ, so...
Old 19 hours ago
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engmix View Post
I'm curious on a "technical" level why some of you full time mastering engineers might gravitate towards using a dynamic eq or a multiband compressor.
This is essentially what I asked earlier in the thread because I was curious about people's preferences.

My very basic understanding is that with a multiband the crossovers are always in the signal whether there's dynamic action or not. So, unless you do something clever like FabFilter did with their 'dynamic phase', the crossovers can have a detrimental effect on the phase characteristics of the audio.

For this reason, I've always tended towards dynamic EQ when looking for frequency specific dynamic control. I can't say that I can always hear the impact of crossovers on program, but sometimes it's been obvious.

I imagine that using linear phase crossovers addresses the phase issue at the cost of some pre-ring. Someone please correct or elaborate on any of this.
Old 14 hours ago
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engmix View Post
JP, I hear ya, I'm in no argument what so ever about anything to do with creativity, workflow, or in regards to end results. Those elements are always first and foremost to me the most important thing. I tend not to inquire about those things because I come to those conclusions on my own when I demo a particular unit or software, as I'm sure you do as well.

I'm curious on a "technical" level why some of you full time mastering engineers might gravitate towards using a dynamic eq or a multiband compressor. Again of course the sound and end result is always in the end the only factor to be considered. With that said there are technical differences between the two types of plugins. Maybe I just need to google the info Lol...but if someone wants to chime in as to some technical factors, that would be greatly appreciated. For instance I'm wondering if one uses different types of crossover filters or typology etc...
Im with the others here.
I think diffs between MB comp and DynEQ are sometimes not that obvious in daily work, but becomes quite big in a direct comparisson with another tool. Same with diff crossover slopes etc. I think its a usefull excercise trying to beat one tool with the other, also by modifying all those parameters under the hood. This really can help to understand how a 12dB crossover differs from a 96dB soundwise for example. Our brain often behaves like a easily manipulable little child when it comes to things like that and therefore its quite easy to dial in a result that sounds good with most of those tools. Therefore I think its helpful to always use a reference which helps to hear whats really going on. And then those quite little diffs can still come a long way in mastering.
I also always try new stuff within the chain and not as a separate process (which just makes no sence to me when you arent a professional gear reviewer...).
But maybe thats just me...
Old 11 hours ago
  #81
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SASMastering's Avatar
Getting some good use out of Multiplicity, keeping it within a dB or 2 just for now till I can do some proper digging in deep and see how stuff response to more heavy settings, see what it can do and what the sweet spots are. (more bombastic settings only on test sessions not mastering jobs)

I would like to see the Q graphic curve narrow more as Q is narrowed.. it seems to hit a point (approx Q of 6.0 which is granted pretty tight) and then does not narrow any more. Yes I know I use ears, but some sensible visual feedback would make a lot of sense if that could be improved it would be good.

Also the main GR to the right (or increase meter), what is that showing ? We can see compression/expansion on the "twangy bands" on the FR graph per band so we can see what is happening roughly. (I had 2 dynamic eq bands working gently) What is that right hand meter showing cause it seems to jump around a lot swinging positive and negative (I was upward expanding lows 1dB max and downward compressing some upper mids 1.5dB max, very small amounts)

Also how does the ballistic on the main GR meter relate to the time constants (and the twangy FR bands for that matter) and what is the main GR meter showing a combo of all bands (which would make little sense) or is it showing the selected band ? edit : seems lookahead has a big bearing on how the "twangers" respond. (anyway to compensate for that, so the twangers make more sense ?)

I am finding the metering ballistics do not seem to provide useful information so far. When doing small amounts it is reassuring at the least to see metering kicking in with some relationship to time constants. So yes whilst we
use ears it is handy to have some kind of visual meter feedback that makes sense.

I see you can set metering up in settings but what metering does the setup correspond to (The twangers or main GR on the right). The manual could have gone a lot deeper I think in some areas.

Just a response to why use a dynamic eq question: Dynamic eq is preferable as an option sometimes...because sometimes a static cut does not sound as good, it sits on the entire spectrum and instrumentation. Anyone who knows their onions won't be digging -5dB into anywhere (unless there is a serious spectral/dynamic problem and even then.....), these are tiny changes and we can hear them cause our sound systems are the dogs danglies.

Just like any type of tool, you have them all and you choose the one that does the job best, doing most of what you need and least of what you don't want it to do, nothing more nothing less.

When your sound system and room is presenting the micro details of audio you hear this stuff very easily.

Last edited by SASMastering; 10 hours ago at 12:37 PM..
Old 7 hours ago
  #82
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edit : found the GR decay setting which relates to the individual FR graph gain reduction.

Although it does not change the ballistics of the main GR output metering.

If there was a disable tab in the settings that would be handy as it is rather jittery looking.
Old 5 hours ago
  #83
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Macc's Output preset have made my life easier on EDM music and Hip Hop. I put it on my output right away now when I start.
Old 3 hours ago
  #84
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Is the EQ linear phase ? (I understand the band filters are for the MBC)? Nothing mentioned in the manual but a Youtube video suggests it is.



Diff button, continuously scrollable/blendable M/S and Dyn/tran is great !
Old 3 hours ago
  #85
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And Ceiling and Floor and Lin/Log and....

But man, this thing is deep and its really easy to get lost in possibilties. I defintly need to create some custom presets which represents my way of working and allows me fast results when working with it.
Old 2 hours ago
  #86
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If you don't know what you are doing you could mash audio up real quick, my focus and interest is in the dynamic EQ. Taking it easy with it, remedial touches when necessary is my current approach. Depth is there, but I prefer to request a tweak if someone has asked me to appraise/feedback on a mix first. Powerful tool that will get some use.

Correction: The Q graphic it is more like 3.0 not 6.0
Old 1 hour ago
  #87
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Experimented with expanding, hint is when finding the right thresh, freq. etc. start from tran and slowly lower to dyn.

It's so fast but "there" without making me sea sick like any other expanders I tried before, makes me want to quit static eq's completely
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