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Clipping workflow ideas Dynamics Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Gear Head
 

Clipping workflow ideas

Hi all!
there are many clipping threads out there but I would have a specific question, if anyone could chime in it would be great.

I have recently started to clip the convertors (Yes I am terribly late ha ha) and I'm loving how it sounds.
I'm new to clipping as I was very dogmatic about "never getting into the red in digital or you will suffer a terrible death beaten up by vikings who will cut your ears off etc etc..." But I have changed my opinion and noticed the benefits of the process.

My question would be:
Once I record the analog chain with my converter clipped (to taste),
I sometimes want to add some extra processing AFTER the chain (an extra db of a narrow cut on some problematic freq etc...), but apart from my final limiter (Limitless) every plugin I put on the recorded file sounds terrible even if I lower it's input or just trim the file's gain into the plugin in order to have a correct gain staging.

That does mean that MEs which use clipping don't process the files further after clipping or there is a right way of doing this?

I could live without doing that but I would appreciate the extra flexibility of working this way as it would allow me to easily recall a session with only the analog part + clipping printed and then allow me for example to set the final loudness for different types of requirement for target releases (Youtube, CD etc etc...) or just make slight changes if needed.

Many thanks! Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

My chain is :
Daw Digital processing (corrective EQ, deessing, stereo image manipulation etc)
>Mytek DA
> Analog EQ (2A3, CurveBender, Clariphonic)
>Analog compression (Alan smart C2, API2500, Manley VariMu)
>B2 bomber AD

Last edited by audioloud; 1 week ago at 01:45 PM.. Reason: clearer post
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Gear Head
 
Tom Meyer's Avatar
Fear the Vikings!
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Lives for gear
If you clip ITB with a plugin rather than with your converters this is easily avoided. Put the clipper next to last before the limiter. If you need to eq or whatever just put that before the clipper.

Doing it this way also makes it a simple matter to send an unclipped master for vinyl.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

I'm with Scraggs.

Clipping the ADC is committing to baking the cake at that point and any changes require a reprint. It forces a more linear and fixed workflow, but many feel it's worth it for the sound they get.

I prefer the flexibility of being able to apply post analogue processing and create multiple deliverables from one analogue pass.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Giuseppe Zaccaria's Avatar
 

What I do is a blend between clipping the ADC and push with Limitless (me only limiter), that blend always change according to mixes. In between I always use Soothe right before Limitless which helps and doesn't sound bad at all to me

Last edited by Giuseppe Zaccaria; 6 days ago at 12:24 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
Clipper plug ins especially shines in bypass to me.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
To me there is no black and white, the right AD pushed by the right gain stage sounds sometimes better than ITB clipping, and sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes you gotta use an other gain stage to achieve what you want and sometimes the AD need a buffer device between the gain stage and itself.

If you're looking for what is right or wrong, the discussion is pointless, if you're looking for research path or though, I have my 2 cents.

Try to get an insert switcher where you can flip the gear easily like a Dangerous Liaison or any other kind, it will make the experimental time easier so you could find what you like and what suits you the best.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Head
 

First of all thank you all for your ideas. I obviously wasn't looking to know what is right or wrong, as there are no rules with audio, apart from what sounds good.
Just a confirmation, mirrored in other's people workflow, for what my ears are gathering - that any other processing after clipping, different then limiting, usually doesn't work, also for others who are more of clipping experts then myself.

I have tried an ITB clipper just before the limiter like someone suggested. Working this way resolves recall issues and makes printing additional different versions for various formats easier and less time consuming then having to recall the whole chain (I take pics of the settings anyhow and store them with the session).

The thing is it doesn't sound good to me as clipping my Burl. When I clip the hardware I just have to apply less compression and less limiting, it's really weird and a bit counter intuitive for me, but it just works and when I first started experimenting with it I had one of those A-HA moments... . (I obviously wouldn't try it on a jazz album...)
I am using Kazrog Kclip2. Anybody using different clipping software they would like to suggest?

Thanks again!
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

hey-- the reason some of the correction plug ins you are trying to use post-capture sound bad is probably cus you are internally overloading them.
you need to *destructively* lower the gain of your clipped capture, and then use the plug ins. you can use limitless to bring it back to full scale. some plugs like TDR Slick EQ will tell you when the plug is being overloaded.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogoftears View Post
hey-- the reason some of the correction plug ins you are trying to use post-capture sound bad is probably cus you are internally overloading them.
you need to *destructively* lower the gain of your clipped capture, and then use the plug ins. you can use limitless to bring it back to full scale. some plugs like TDR Slick EQ will tell you when the plug is being overloaded.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I have already done that from the start
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saxnscratch View Post
To me there is no black and white
But 50 shades of clipping, right?
Old 6 days ago
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothTone View Post
But 50 shades of clipping, right?
Haha yes !! Exactly !!
Old 6 days ago
  #13
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Conundra's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I prefer SIR Standard Clip to the Kazrog. Both the Softclip Pro algo and the hard clip ones can work well pre limiter
Old 6 days ago
  #14
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Giuseppe Zaccaria's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Clipper plug ins especially shines in bypass to me.

Me too in fact I ment clipping the ADC, never used a clipper plugin
Old 5 days ago
  #15
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Zaccaria View Post
Me too in fact I ment clipping the ADC, never used a clipper plugin
Ah no, my comment wasnt really aimed at you.
I tried quite some flavour of the month clippers over the years, but never understood what ppl likes with them. Even when ignoring all those ugly distortion artefacts I still would question their use for "loudeness". But I think just its mainly a question of taste (and monitoring).
There are a million ways to die....
Old 5 days ago
  #16
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Conundra's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Horses for courses. I only reach for clipping when ‘those’ clients want it 2dB louder than is sane. A clipper nipping off a dB or 2 just on the loudest transient impacts which would normally choke the limiter, is often the most graceful way to achieve an acceptable result.
Old 5 days ago
  #17
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Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP__ View Post
Even when ignoring all those ugly distortion artefacts I still would question their use for "loudeness". But I think just its mainly a question of taste (and monitoring).
I do tasteful ITB clipping when needed. If it's audible, I back it off. If the distortion is there, but can't be heard, is it a problem? I find clipping with StandardCLIP to be an EXCELLENT way to gain a totally transparent extra dB or two of loudness, if set up right, on 96kHz sources. Nothing wrong with my monitors either!
Old 5 days ago
  #18
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JP__'s Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
I do tasteful ITB clipping when needed. If it's audible, I back it off. If the distortion is there, but can't be heard, is it a problem? I find clipping with StandardCLIP to be an EXCELLENT way to gain a totally transparent extra dB or two of loudness, if set up right, on 96kHz sources. Nothing wrong with my monitors either!
Its not about wrong or right, but use of distortion still seems also monitoring depended to me. But thats just a personal theory.
I wasnt really able to gain any clean extra loudness from StandardClip or others, but thats maybe just me too.

And in times where we MEs often just forced to deliver a pre master (digital distribution, vinyl , remasters, etc) Im quite carefull in declaring whats hearable distortion and whats not...

Last edited by JP__; 5 days ago at 04:48 PM.. Reason: Deleted senceless anecdote
Old 5 days ago
  #19
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Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I never said anything was about right or wrong! Do what works for you and your clients. I use StandardCLIP on maybe 50% of the tracks that come through here, and have done for years, never had a client complain about it. So it works, for me. No need to be careful about declaring what's audible distortion, it's either audible, or it's not. If it's not, I don't worry about it.
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