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Roof types and ceiling heights Studio Headphones
Old 2 weeks ago
  #31
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs View Post
You weren't asking me this but....I would put your speakers on the short wall and the bath/kitchenette as well, this just seems way more logical than the other way.

My room is 20x30, it's a nice size.

What Larry was talking about before with the 2x12s...those are the rafters.

As far as not drywalling it...you're in Florida? How cold does it get?
Hi scraggs,

I was also thinking of putting the speakers so they fire down the length of the building. But I know there are a lot of people who do it the other way and who really like the side walls being far from the speakers. I think I'm going to be able to make the structure wide enough so that it doesn't matter.

You are not suggesting that I put the speakers on the SAME wall as the bath/kitchenette, are you? I just want to make sure I understand.

The terminology regarding trusses, rafters, beams, and all that is a little confusing to me. Sometimes people seem to mean different things using the same terminology. Just trying to learn a little. Larry obviously has a lot of building experience.

I am in Florida. It does get pretty darn cold in the winter. Like recently, for instance. Not sure how to handle the interior, and I'm grateful for any information I can get from those who already have the experience. I've told drywall is kind of a drag in some ways, but I don't really know, everybody seems to use it. I guess there are a bunch of options. Paneling? Some sort of fabric over absorbent material? The less I have to do, the better, costwise. But it has to work properly. What do you think?

20'x30' is probably real good. I think I would do well to end up with that after subtracting for the bath / kitchenette area, right?

How do you have your stuff set up, if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks, and feel free to post more comments on this.



cheers,

audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
You are not suggesting that I put the speakers on the SAME wall as the bath/kitchenette, are you?
You could, but I would think logistically it would work out better having that at the back of the room.

Quote:
I am in Florida. It does get pretty darn cold in the winter.
OK. You have to put up drywall and seal up the whole interior of the building, that includes the ceiling, otherwise you're essentially going to be outside. I know less work is better/easier/cheaper, but there's no way around this unless you want to freeze to death.

You don't have to go crazy and do 4 layers of drywall, like you would if you had soundproofing concerns, but you need to do at least one and make sure it's all sealed up real well.

Quote:
20'x30' is probably real good. I think I would do well to end up with that after subtracting for the bath / kitchenette area, right?
Yep. If you can build it with some extra length for the bath/kitchenette you'll be doing great...that's a way bigger space than most people have for their studios. And with 20' of width you'll have no issues putting the speakers on a short wall.

Quote:
How do you have your stuff set up, if you don't mind my asking?
Here's a pic:



Build thread here if you want the whole saga:

Tape Op | Old Colony Mastering build recap - Message Board
Old 2 weeks ago
  #33
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs View Post
You could, but I would think logistically it would work out better having that at the back of the room.
Your studio looks nice! Very cool ergonomic setup for mastering.

To be clear, by "back of the room" you mean "entrance to the building" [with the engineer facing away from the entrance], right?

I have a console and racks of stuff, and I'd like to have a space for musicians for set up for tracking stuff, too. So how to lay it out is a bit of a puzzle. If I put the monitors up against the front wall, then the "band" has to go behind the engineer. Otherwise, I guess I put the whole console / monitor setup in the middle-ish part of the room?


Quote:
OK. You have to put up drywall and seal up the whole interior of the building, that includes the ceiling, otherwise you're essentially going to be outside. I know less work is better/easier/cheaper, but there's no way around this unless you want to freeze to death.

You don't have to go crazy and do 4 layers of drywall, like you would if you had soundproofing concerns, but you need to do at least one and make sure it's all sealed up real well.
O.K., I hear you. However, I can say that the building will be "sealed up real well" even with just the siding [Smartside]. They are watertight and all that. I will also have HVAC for a/c and heat. I planning on using a minisplit.

Do you think it absolutely has to be drywall? How about some other sort of covering with insulation? I would really like to take advantage of the height of the vaulted ceiling. Also, I think there is some sort of issue with moisture buildup between Tuffshed's "SilverTech" radiant barrier and drywall. Actually, I am not sure is the issue is only having to do with drywall, or if it is a potential issue with other types of interior finishing as well. Any idea about this? What did you guys do?

Quote:
Yep. If you can build it with some extra length for the bath/kitchenette you'll be doing great...that's a way bigger space than most people have for their studios. And with 20' of width you'll have no issues putting the speakers on a short wall.
That's what I'm thinking. Hopefully it will work out.



Quote:
Here's a pic:



Build thread here if you want the whole saga:

Tape Op | Old Colony Mastering build recap - Message Board

That's real nice, scraggs. Good work. I'll bet it sounds good. Thanks for sharing. I'll look through your build thread, too.


cheers,

audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #34
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Hi folks,

I found a page with a bunch of building calculators on it. I was looking for information like the total roof volume for the different roof styles and had a hard time getting it from the Tuffshed people. I finally found this page with all the calculators. Maybe it will be helpful to some of you also. I hope so.

Here's a link.


Gambrel Roof Framing Geometry Calculator with Animated Diagrams - Imperial


best,

audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #35
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Silvertone's Avatar
Get the Master Handbook of Acoustics and it will answer all your questions. There also a book called How to Build a Recording Studio. Between the two books everything you’d ever want to knowis answered.

Yes you need Sheetrock and RC channel. Space in between layers of rock using the RC channel and room within a room construction for total isolation... if that’s what you need. For AC and heat you will at the very least need Sheetrock and insulation regardless.

I like to use woods native to the area for the finish treatments. Part of why you turn perpendicular to the long wall is the way the ceiling itself works... you avoid side wall problems as well but really set it up the way you want and treat the resulted problems. That’s all. There really isn’t anything that can’t be dealt with.

I have radiant floor heat in the concrete... silent and warm, toasty on your feet. I have a mini split for AC and it also has a heat pump for added warmth in the winter. I built my whole studio, with multiple rooms, galley kitchen, full bathroom and a bedroom for a total cost of around 30k. Doing a monolithic pour for the slab instead of a full basement saves you a lot of money... doing all the physical work yourself really saves you the most money.

Good luck on your build.

You are getting lots of great advice from the people contributing to this thread. Enjoy the process.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
Get the Master Handbook of Acoustics and it will answer all your questions.
Found it. Here's a link for anyone interested.

http://www.roletech.net/books/HandbookAcoustics.pdf

Quote:
There also a book called How to Build a Recording Studio. Between the two books everything you’d ever want to knowis answered.
I didn't see anything with that exact name. There's something similar by Ron Gervais and by Jeff Cooper. One of those?

TBH, I am not looking to do this as a DIY. I am going to have a contractor [probably Tuffsheds] build it, and I'll get someone in to treat it. I just want to get enough of a heads up to get a good space to work with. And then its probably going to be improved a little at a time, as I can.

Quote:
Yes you need Sheetrock and RC channel. Space in between layers of rock using the RC channel and room within a room construction for total isolation... if that’s what you need. For AC and heat you will at the very least need Sheetrock and insulation regardless.
O.K., I hear you. I am not going for isolation. No real need where I am putting it. And I am putting it here instead of in a commercial building to avoid the expense of the "room in a room" scenario.

Quote:
I like to use woods native to the area for the finish treatments. Part of why you turn perpendicular to the long wall is the way the ceiling itself works... you avoid side wall problems as well but really set it up the way you want and treat the resulted problems. That’s all. There really isn’t anything that can’t be dealt with.
.

Right. Your ceiling splays up as it goes over your head, then down behind you, right? I guess I see advantages and disadvantages to that. But I'm sure you have it sorted out with the clouds and all that. I may be able to try both scenarios once I get the building up. I'm tending toward firing the monitors down the length of the building as it seems like the best use of space, and probably easier to treat, but that could change. I'd welcome comments from anyone on this.

How big is your place place [aside from the 18' height], if you don't mind my asking? Like how long, how wide? Or I guess you have different rooms for different tasks [tracking, mixing, mastering]?

I'm going with one big room, at least to start. That's all I can swing right now, I think.

Quote:
I have radiant floor heat in the concrete... silent and warm, toasty on your feet. I have a mini split for AC and it also has a heat pump for added warmth in the winter.
That's interesting stuff. I will look into the radiant floor heat thing. I had planned on a mini split ac with heat pump also.

Quote:
I built my whole studio, with multiple rooms, galley kitchen, full bathroom and a bedroom for a total cost of around 30k. Doing a monolithic pour for the slab instead of a full basement saves you a lot of money... doing all the physical work yourself really saves you the most money.
No basement here. I am in Florida [high water table]. I am not able to do the physical work on this. Little bit older and pretty banged up these days. But hanging in there. : )

Quote:
Good luck on your build.

You are getting lots of great advice from the people contributing to this thread. Enjoy the process.
Thanks, man. Keep an eye on this thread, if you don't mind. I appreciate the tips and help from all concerned.


Best,

audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #37
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Any thoughts on lighting? Like what is needed for basic lighting, and does not make noise?

I saw one thread with a bunch of posts about various types of "fancy" and exotic lighting. I just need regular lights that don't cause a bunch of buzz or other issues.

Also wondering how many electrical outlets I'll need. I probably have to let the structural engineers know before they draw up the plans. I'm sure this seems a basic question, and I'm just bringing it up in case there is some issue beyond the obvious.

I am actually seeing a bunch of stuff about running all the audio gear out of one outlet to avoid loops and stuff. Makes sense, but I can't say I've ever made an effort to do that before. Plus, I do have quite a bit of gear. Console, 4 or 5 tape machines, coupla pro tools rigs w/ interfaces and computers, 3 or 4 racks full of outboard, several guitar and bass amps, a few keyboards, sync to picture.................monitors, black burst, all kinds of stuff.

Is anybody using the "one-outlet" approach? Does it make a big difference for you? How do you pull it off?

Thanks,


audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
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I dunno that you necessarily HAVE to run everything off one outlet, but you definitely DO want to have all your audio gear running off the same CIRCUIT, as that's what'll prevent ground loops.

Exception: depending on what sort of console you have it might need it's own circuit.

Here I have one circuit for all the audio gear, one for the computer, one for the a/c, one for the lights, and 2 others for whatever. All 20 amp lines except the one for the lights, which is 15.

I have way less gear than you so it's no problem to run it all off one outlet. Exceptions being power amps and subs, which all have their own outlets.

I'd definitely recommend figuring out basically where you're going to set everything up and plan your outlets accordingly.

As far as lights I just have 6 of the paper lamps overhead.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
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audioforce's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs View Post
I dunno that you necessarily HAVE to run everything off one outlet, but you definitely DO want to have all your audio gear running off the same CIRCUIT, as that's what'll prevent ground loops.

Exception: depending on what sort of console you have it might need it's own circuit.

Here I have one circuit for all the audio gear, one for the computer, one for the a/c, one for the lights, and 2 others for whatever. All 20 amp lines except the one for the lights, which is 15.

I have way less gear than you so it's no problem to run it all off one outlet. Exceptions being power amps and subs, which all have their own outlets.

I'd definitely recommend figuring out basically where you're going to set everything up and plan your outlets accordingly.

As far as lights I just have 6 of the paper lamps overhead.
Thanks scraggs,

Makes sense. I have to say that I have never had problems with hum that weren't easily solved. For all I know, a lot of the stuff may have been on the same circuit in many instances. I always had it set up with a star grounding method. That and a few ground lifts here and there. Pretty darn quiet.

I have an old Trident 24 console [36 x 24 x 4]. I do have a lot of stuff, I guess. But I think most audio gear doesn't draw much power, and I guess that's why you can put so much stuff on one circuit.

You keep the computer isolated from the other gear as far as power? Why? Isn't it connected to the other gear already through an interface / card or something?

Do the paper lamps require any special planning for the electrical? My guess is that the electrician is going to know all this stuff. Just trying to get a heads up in case there's anything peculiar I need to let them know about.


cheers,

audioforce
Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioforce View Post
You keep the computer isolated from the other gear as far as power? Why?
I don't know! It seemed like a thing to do. It's how I had it at my previous studio, and there were enough lines already run in the new room, so it was easy to do.

Quote:
Do the paper lamps require any special planning for the electrical? .
Naw. Only thing is there's a limit as to how high a wattage bulb you can safely put in them, I think it's 40. Which is fine because who wants glaring overhead lighting in a studio?
Old 1 week ago
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs View Post
I don't know! It seemed like a thing to do. It's how I had it at my previous studio, and there were enough lines already run in the new room, so it was easy to do.
Probably just as good. I guess you might want to plug the computer into the same line as the other gear and see if its quieter or something. But I'm thinking you probably have it working right the way you have it.



Quote:
Naw. Only thing is there's a limit as to how high a wattage bulb you can safely put in them, I think it's 40. Which is fine because who wants glaring overhead lighting in a studio?
Yeah, or flaming paper lampshades overhead either, right? : )

Seems like a pretty simple, elegant solution. It looks nice, too.


cheers,

audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #42
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@scraggs :


Hi, I think you mentioned your studio space was 20' x 30', right? I'm guessing that you feel that the "no even multiples on room dimensions" thing does not apply for a room that large?

Also, I know you are probably using your space for Mastering exclusively, but I'm wondering if you feel like you would be able to fit yourself, some gear, and a band in that space fairly comfortably, if you had to for some reason?

Thanks.


Best,

audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #43
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Hey,

Well, my room isn't *exactly* 20x30 it's really 19-something by 30'5", which I assume helps a little with the even multiples. But yeah I wasn't too worried about it with a room this size, and I knew I was gonna have a massive amount of treatment in there as well. Also, I built the walls fairly thin so a lot of the bass just goes right through and I'm sure that helps too. It turned out great, there's no issues in there at all, it sounds wonderful.

But if you're building from scratch, I'm guessing it's not much more money to build 22'x34' than it is 20'x30', so if you can avoid even multiples altogether then hey why not.

I recorded a couple bands in my last room, and that was ~17x21, so I could definitely fit one in here. Not sure there's too many bands who want to record in a room with a reverb time that's 1/10th of a second though!
Old 1 week ago
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraggs View Post
Hey,

Well, my room isn't *exactly* 20x30 it's really 19-something by 30'5", which I assume helps a little with the even multiples. But yeah I wasn't too worried about it with a room this size, and I knew I was gonna have a massive amount of treatment in there as well. Also, I built the walls fairly thin so a lot of the bass just goes right through and I'm sure that helps too. It turned out great, there's no issues in there at all, it sounds wonderful.

But if you're building from scratch, I'm guessing it's not much more money to build 22'x34' than it is 20'x30', so if you can avoid even multiples altogether then hey why not.

I recorded a couple bands in my last room, and that was ~17x21, so I could definitely fit one in here. Not sure there's too many bands who want to record in a room with a reverb time that's 1/10th of a second though!
Thanks, scraggs. How tall is the ceiling in your room? Is it flat? Sorry if you already told me. I wasn't sure.

I like the idea of building walls that allow some bass to pass through without building up. I'm trying to figure out what to use for the interior walls now. Did you use drywall or something else? I was initially thinking of just hanging some sort of acoustic treatment on the inside of the framing, but from what I'm hearing from other, that may just not work. On the one hand, everything is so expensive, but I don't want to half-ass it either.



Best,

audioforce
Old 1 week ago
  #45
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My ceiling is just a regular pitched roof, I dunno what the proper term is, but it starts at 8' at the sides and goes to 14' at the peak.

Walls from outside in: vinyl siding-1/2" plywood-stud frame w/insulation-air gap-stud frame w/insulation-2 layers of 1/2" drywall.

Like I said earlier, you're gonna have to put up insulation and drywall on your framing unless you want to either freeze to death (even in florida) or spend a fortune on heating it all winter.

Yep, everything's expensive. And I'm sure I'm not the first one to tell you this, but no matter how well you plan, it's going to take longer and cost more than you think it will. Guaranteed. Accept this and budget for it now so you stress less about it later. At the end of all this you're going to have a nice studio and it'll all be worth it.
Old 1 week ago
  #46
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S_mask's Avatar
 

You might want to get the book, Building A Recording Studio, by Jeff Cooper.

https://www.amazon.com/Building-Reco.../dp/0916899004
Old 1 week ago
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_mask View Post
You might want to get the book, Building A Recording Studio, by Jeff Cooper.

https://www.amazon.com/Building-Reco.../dp/0916899004
And here is a classic Gearslutz thread on that book!

Dunno, just popped up when I did a search for the title. : )


Building a Recording Studio- Jeff Cooper


cheers,

audioforce
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