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Hearing loss and working with a sound engineer. Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 17th December 2018
  #31
You've been given answers to your questions multiple times; I'm not sure what else you want. You're asking for simplistic answers to complex questions.
Old 17th December 2018
  #32
Gear Head
 

Verified Member
Okay, let say like it :

Hearing loss is a lack of informations, and when You can't hear some of the high frequencies, here are the main problems :

- when mixing, it would Be Much harder to EQ on the high end

-with Sound design, you'll have to ensure That you don't put too much high end.

There is ways to compensate, like analyzer.
(However I Am not anymore into mixing).


Now, There is another solution :


I am into EDM, and I have been using Nexus2, a vst rompler, since many years, and I even made entire sounds with it.


Nexus2 is a very famous rompler, and for EDM, they have the best Sound designers in their team.

They even worked with Tiesto, Aoki, Klaas to design soundbanks.

The sounds That come with the expansions are really perfects, the best That I could ever hope to have.

So, in my particular situation, I have invested into about 50 expansions, giving me a huge huge number of sounds That are tailored for my music Project.

It is like the perfect synth for me, where everything is ready to use etc.

I mean I am not limited at all with it.


So now, let say That I make my music with Nexus, and some samples and other libraries.

Then I send the files to an engineer.


The engineer mix and/or master it.



Question : Do I neutralized my hearing loss with This way of doing music ?

My answer would be That with This way, I Can focus on music and arrangement, and That my hearing loss is not a problem anymore.


However, I would like to know YOUR opinion.

Do You feel the same than me ?
Old 17th December 2018
  #33
With the kind of music you are interested in making the mixing is quite often integrated with the writing, at least to an extent, so that does make me understand your concern a little more.

I would say that, so long as your hearing below 10k is still quite linear, you will be fine. Especially if you are to have someone else mixing your music.
Old 17th December 2018
  #34
Gear Head
 

My hearing loss rolls off dramatically at 4Khz. I also have tinnitus and it doesn't stop me from mixing. I run things by a friend who can hear the air to make sure it's not overdone, which would be the tendency. I am also careful about hitting it too hard. So stop worrying and just get on with making music.
I wouldn't try to be a mastering engineer, but that was never my intention anyway...
Old 17th December 2018
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocratic Mastering View Post
With the kind of music you are interested in making the mixing is quite often integrated with the writing, at least to an extent, so that does make me understand your concern a little more.

I would say that, so long as your hearing below 10k is still quite linear, you will be fine. Especially if you are to have someone else mixing your music.
Hmm... I disagree...

It depends about the kind of electronic music genre.

Aphex Twin for instance would use mixing tools a lot to create his tracks, with a lot and a lot of automations.


Now, for popish EDM styles (like Avicii, Axwell, Nicky Romero), the mixing is not really integrated with the writing...

I think it is the sound design that is integrated with the writing for sure.

Anyway, before my hearing loss, when I was mixing my tracks (and my mixes were honnestly of great quality), I never used more than EQ, and compressor most of the time... The rest was about sound design and layering.

Of course there is the FX dimension to take into consideration : in EDM, there is sidechain for example, and reverbs, but it is basic : I can make a dummy mix to the engineer and send him also a reference mix, and he will get a pretty clear idea of the song.


Anyway, the sound engineer would have a part in the creative process, and it is not for me a problem.
I don't understand why some musicians want to control everything by themselves.

I think it is all about having a good sound engineer and communication....
Old 17th December 2018
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedaCalor View Post
My hearing loss rolls off dramatically at 4Khz. I also have tinnitus and it doesn't stop me from mixing. I run things by a friend who can hear the air to make sure it's not overdone, which would be the tendency. I am also careful about hitting it too hard. So stop worrying and just get on with making music.
I wouldn't try to be a mastering engineer, but that was never my intention anyway...


Again, you don't answer my question...

I don't WANT to mix my music, I know many people mix well with hearing loss, but in my case, I prefer to hire an engineer.
Old 17th December 2018
  #37
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I think that I am screwed actually....
Old 17th December 2018
  #38
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SmoothTone's Avatar
 

I think I might see what's happening here. We think you are asking "can I still make music with my hearing loss?" When perhaps what you are asking is "are there engineers who will work with me in the way I am hoping?"

The answer to both is "of course!"

The only way to know for sure is to do it. And that is how you will get your confidence back.
Old 17th December 2018
  #39
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Ben F's Avatar
 

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It’s a common misconception that noise induced hearing loss affects the very high frequencies. That rolls off naturally with age, and you could argue that most modern music doesn’t comtain that much useful information about 15kHz (or even 12kHz) anyway. Especially as an mp3, or played on FM radio where it is low pass filtered.

If you have noise induced hearing loss, that will affect your ability to discern speech intelligibility, this is in the critical 4-8kHz area. If you have tinnitus, this would generally be where the damage is. Many sound engineers, musicians and DJs have a dip in this area. Many rooms have large peaks and dips as well. Your ear/brain adapts. As long as you monitor below 85dB SPL for 8 hours you should not be making this damage worse, and can continue working as an engineer.

When I lecture young kids, I always talk about protecting their ears at concerts and checking levels in the studio. Not enough education about this IMO. People still post how they can hear up to 15kHz without getting a full hearing test done. The highest frequency heard is no indication of how good your hearing is.
Old 18th December 2018
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Frankly, your questions are starting to get annoying and repetitive.
You've received multiple answers from multiple people about the same question over and over again.

You need to stop moaning and wallowing in self-pity and grow a pair.
However, your self-assessment is correct - you are screwed, but not because of your hearing issue, but because of your attitude.
Old 18th December 2018
  #41
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Maybe just a lil harsh, you think?

OP, you are going to be fine. Really. FINE. You've gotten lots of good advice on this thread. Take it and go make some nice music.
Old 18th December 2018
  #42
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teebaum's Avatar
the main part of the ear is between the ears themselves, it's the brain!
much more important than what arrives is what is made of it.

that's why there are excellent mastering engineers who are over 60 years old and whose eartest-measurements can't keep up with those of their young colleagues - yet they do great work.

whether people want to work with you or not will have little to do with the fact that in the last of the 10 octaves a person hears, you hear only 50%.

technicians are first and foremost service technicians, if you give them a job, they do it in most cases - unless you treat them unfairly.

you honestly have a different pattern, which is quite common.
it doesn't seem that you can't hear, you don't want to hear.
10 answers are given to you, but you do not hear them, but ask the same question again and again.

instead of worrying about half an octave, you should rather train to listen and take care not to overburden your hearing.

Last edited by teebaum; 4 weeks ago at 01:01 PM..
Old 18th December 2018
  #43
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audioforce's Avatar
 



The dude has got to be just yanking everyone's chain. C'mon. Puhleeze.

I know, lets tell him he's screwed, and see if that ends it. : )



cheers,


audioforce
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
Gear Head
 

Verified Member
I just wake up today with most of my high frequencies hearing in my left ear even more attenuated.
Gone to the ENT, he found nothing, and because the audiogram is ok up to 8khz (but my hearing is very bad now above 10khz), he said I have nothing to worry about.


Still, my ear feel full and I lost a bunch of hearing in just one night.


So yes, at 20 years old, I am screwed, I will just stop music production, it is not for me^^
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepino456 View Post
I just wake up today with most of my high frequencies hearing in my left ear even more attenuated.
Gone to the ENT, he found nothing, and because the audiogram is ok up to 8khz (but my hearing is very bad now above 10khz), he said I have nothing to worry about.


Still, my ear feel full and I lost a bunch of hearing in just one night.


So yes, at 20 years old, I am screwed, I will just stop music production, it is not for me^^
Don't expect a pity party from us.

Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to listen to music on earbuds at dangerous levels all these years.

You made your bed, now lie in it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by varunbkk View Post
Don't expect a pity party from us.

Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to listen to music on earbuds at dangerous levels all these years.

You made your bed, now lie in it.
This is unecessary. The guy is obviously going through a tough time: compassion would seem more appropriate than being a dick.

Pepino, this might well be a temporary thing. I’m no doctor but maybe get a second opinion.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
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teebaum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepino456 View Post
I just wake up today with most of my high frequencies hearing in my left ear even more attenuated.
Gone to the ENT, he found nothing, and because the audiogram is ok up to 8khz (but my hearing is very bad now above 10khz), he said I have nothing to worry about.
a visit to a doctor and perhaps a second doctor to be able to judge the opinion of the first would certainly be appropriate.

in my experience, many hearing problems are not necessarily caused by loud hearing, but - and unfortunately few people know this - by a wrong physical posture.
sometimes a physiotherapist helps more than an ear specialist.

in addition, the problem can also be caused temporarily by a flu or a cold.

maybe you simply have an ear wax plug in your ear that should be removed?

sometimes the problems are also nutritional (deficiency symptoms, hearing has a lot of nerves and they want to be cared for)

Last edited by teebaum; 4 weeks ago at 09:08 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippocratic Mastering View Post
This is unecessary. The guy is obviously going through a tough time: compassion would seem more appropriate than being a dick.

Pepino, this might well be a temporary thing. I’m no doctor but maybe get a second opinion.
I'd rather be an honest dick as opposed to giving fake words of encouragement.

There's a big difference between telling somebody what they want to hear (no pun intended) and what they need to hear (no pun intended again).

Both of the above have been provided in abundance - what he does is now up to him.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepino456 View Post
. So, I need your opinion, could my hearing issues would stop to be a problem for me as long as I work like it :

1. Composing, arrangement, : Me
2. Sound-design and records : samples and Nexus2 (and a minor use of my own sound-design)
3. Mixing : sound engineer
4. Mastering : sound engineer.

Because of my hearing loss, I was really in fear that music would be finish for me, or that it would be much harder for me to get a good result.

Now, with this new process, how much do you think my hearing loss would be an issue ?

It might be an obvious question for you, but I am a bit lost...

Thanks !
I work with lots of ‘over 50’ artists and producers that have HF hearing loss.

Many of them can’t hear the 10k tone that i use to align my Ampex Tape machine.

But many of them actually -do- mix, especially their own music.

they send me test mixes for evaluation, i make suggestions, usually back off on the highs a touch 1-3dB.

so take heart, as it’s a workable situation.

so here are my two suggestions.

1. have your ENT give you an exact frequency map of your hearing, so you’ll be aware of just where any slopes & holes are. Many electric guitarists have a hole at 2-3kHz from playing loud bright guitar amps. and standing near the drummers crash cymbal. I suppose a decade of loud EDM would have a similar effect. and hunting and shooting is a big culprit as well. anything repitive and loud for years.

2. hire a young assistant to check the HF content in your work, to make sure it’s not too bright, esp highhats, tambourines & shakers.

and of course have your engineers give you advice, you may need to relinquish a bit of control to a trusted engineer.

listen to a lot of other music, and compare your mixes to similar work, your perception of the two should be similar, be objective as possible.

Best Regards, JT
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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Jerry Tubb's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Oh yeah, and be aware of where your tinnitus areas are, usually midrange 1-3k perhaps.

be aware of those when mixing.

you can do this, if you have music in you, it’s got to take shape in the world!

best, JT
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
I would wager 100% of the people on this forum have tinnitus and varying degree of loss in the upper spectrum. It's stopping nobody.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepino456 View Post
I just wake up today with most of my high frequencies hearing in my left ear even more attenuated.
Gone to the ENT, he found nothing, and because the audiogram is ok up to 8khz (but my hearing is very bad now above 10khz), he said I have nothing to worry about.


Still, my ear feel full and I lost a bunch of hearing in just one night.


So yes, at 20 years old, I am screwed, I will just stop music production, it is not for me^^
Pay a visit to some professionals. Things like relaxing your jaw and broadband noise treatment can help.
Old 1 week ago
  #53
Gear Head
 

Verified Member
I am back ! My hearing loss have disappeared, it was due to a fluid behind my eardrum, wich have been extracted now.

But I still have my initial hearing loss.


The reason I wrote this topic, is (I think Smoothtone have understood it very well) to know if this is possible :


I don't want to mix, because of my hearing loss, and I prefer to compose and produce.

Producing for me would be only arrangement and sound selection. I use only samples and presets, and sometimes a bit of sound-design, but the sound design is always in minority.



I have never worked with a sound engineer. What I want is to have someone making my tracks sounding to "perfection (I mean a pro level quality), and making sure that any inconsistencies in the sounds would be corrected.


I spoke about hiring a mixing engineer, but more and more I think of hiring instead a mixer wich is also a producer.

For example, many sound engineers are also producers. I know an EDM producer (my style of music) wich is very versatile. For example, if he found that on a track the kick is not sounding good, he will change the kick, like creating a new one or using a sample, same thing with the effects. Sometimes the tracks he mix sounds a bit empty on the drop, and/or the effects (like sweeps etc.) are "wrong", he will replace them.


So, it may be better for me to hire a professionnal engineer wich is also a producer, what do you know ?

Many people have a purist vision, like a sound engineer should only mix in order to achieve the best results, but in my case I don't think that it would be the most beneficial.




The fact that I wrote a lot about it is because some people said me that I was screwed, even for composing music...


Thanks !
Old 1 week ago
  #54
Hiring an engineer who is also a producer sounds like a good idea for what you are trying to accomplish. Give it a go and see whether you like the results.
Old 1 week ago
  #55
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glad you're doing better!

regarding the role of engineers/producers, in my experience the sound engineer often becomes kinda producer as s/he mostly notices if something works or cannot work for some 'technical' reason - and unless the music/compositions are highly sophisticated/complicated, i'm somewhat sceptical towards the idea of hiring a producer: imo their influence is often highly overrated up to the point that i've been in situations a little too often when productions got stuck on ideas of producers (and only moved forward again when producers got sidetracked somehow)...
Old 1 week ago
  #56
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Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
glad you're doing better!

regarding the role of engineers/producers, in my experience the sound engineer often becomes kinda producer as s/he mostly notices if something works or cannot work for some 'technical' reason - and unless the music/compositions are highly sophisticated/complicated, i'm somewhat sceptical towards the idea of hiring a producer: imo their influence is often highly overrated up to the point that i've been in situations a little too often when productions got stuck on ideas of producers (and only moved forward again when producers got sidetracked somehow)...
Thanks for your message.

What did you ask the producers to do exactly ? Mixdown ?


In my case, I would hire a sound engineer to mix, even if he is a producer. I don't hire him to produce, but as he is producing too in my music genre, he may have more possibilities.

After all, it looks like it's all about the person you hire. I know for example that some engineers will ONLY mix, while some others say that mixing and producing is something similar (i.e they will do more than mixing in their works, like maybe adding little sounds etc.)
Old 1 week ago
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepino456 View Post
...What did you ask the producers to do exactly ? Mixdown ?
whatever we call a role, when working together/collaborating on music, it's about exchanging ideas: being a musician, technician and having some experience gets you to the point where you have a pretty good ideas of what can work say in terms of positioning of an element in the stereo panorama, whether to add a shaker or to double vocals - it can become frustating then if a producers lets you do all the wook, spending the client's money only to say "sorry, i didn't work the way i thought"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepino456 View Post
...In my case, I would hire a sound engineer to mix, even if he is a producer. I don't hire him to produce, but as he is producing too in my music genre, he may have more possibilities.

After all, it looks like it's all about the person you hire. I know for example that some engineers will ONLY mix, while some others say that mixing and producing is something similar (i.e they will do more than mixing in their works, like maybe adding little sounds etc.)
yeppp
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