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You might want to look at this as a monitor volume control Recorders, Players & Tape Machines
Old 3 days ago
  #31
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da goose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Signal to Noise is -89 dBU - Typo on my part.

Keep on dishing the unit if you want to.

It sounds good and works well and the build quality is very good. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

The Pot, according to the seller is a B50K DATA SHEET HERE datasheet RK2112N-B50K

It is not a rotary encoder so I have no idea how it works. FWIW

BTW I am NOT using it as monitor volume control I am using it on my TV sound to control the volume remotely. Panasonic TV output via fiber optic into a Benchmark DAC-1 into the relay remote volume control into my Bryston 3BST and my Alon IV speakers. I did try it on my mastering speakers and it works well and sounds good, FWIW
OK, so the SNR is -89, how is the SNR without the unit inline? So just a straigth cable. Still, -89 is not good at all, even an active circuit can do above -100 with a probem. Look at any EQ, monitor controller, everything basically. So could you also test that? A straigth cable? And maybe also with RMAA. Someone else asked that as well, so no strange question.

Don't worry about the potmeter when it comes to the sound, it's just there to send a voltage to the circuit which drives the relays. That will work, just not as charming as an encoder does. There is no audio running through. Still my biggest concern is the quality of the relays (not soundwize, but mechanical) and the balanced attenuator part.

For the rest, if your happy with it, fine! Just a warning since this is a mastering forum, and this kind of stuff is not 'mastering-grade' (whatever that means) I think it's a good idea to put these things to mind as well. Especially for people that don't have a real technical background.
Old 3 days ago
  #32
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
OK, so the SNR is -89, how is the SNR without the unit inline? So just a straigth cable. Still, -89 is not good at all, even an active circuit can do above -100 with a probem. Look at any EQ, monitor controller, everything basically. So could you also test that? A straigth cable? And maybe also with RMAA. Someone else asked that as well, so no strange question.

Don't worry about the potmeter when it comes to the sound, it's just there to send a voltage to the circuit which drives the relays. That will work, just not as charming as an encoder does. There is no audio running through. Still my biggest concern is the quality of the relays (not soundwize, but mechanical) and the balanced attenuator part.

For the rest, if your happy with it, fine! Just a warning since this is a mastering forum, and this kind of stuff is not 'mastering-grade' (whatever that means) I think it's a good idea to put these things to mind as well. Especially for people that don't have a real technical background.

I doubt you ever purchase anything for fear it will have bad switches, controls or relays that will not last 20+ years. You have your priorities and can do what you want to manage them.

I was just trying to tell people about a nicely made piece of equipment that seems to work well and has pretty good specs and cost under $120.00. I have repaired enough pieces of equipment to know that no matter how well made it is and how good the components are at sometime in the future they will fail or breakdown. I repaired and rebuilt four Neotek consoles, three Otari MTR-10 tape decks and a half dozen Ampex AG 440 Bs and C's. All of them had problems and all were components that had gone bad. All had very good components and were well made.

As top being mastering grade??? it was not suppose to be "mastering grade" and it will not replace my Avocet or any other piece of equipment in my mastering studio or video post production studio.

Have a GREAT weekend and keep not buying things because they may, in the future, not work.
Old 1 day ago
  #33
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da goose's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I doubt you ever purchase anything for fear it will have bad switches, controls or relays that will not last 20+ years. You have your priorities and can do what you want to manage them.

I was just trying to tell people about a nicely made piece of equipment that seems to work well and has pretty good specs and cost under $120.00. I have repaired enough pieces of equipment to know that no matter how well made it is and how good the components are at sometime in the future they will fail or breakdown. I repaired and rebuilt four Neotek consoles, three Otari MTR-10 tape decks and a half dozen Ampex AG 440 Bs and C's. All of them had problems and all were components that had gone bad. All had very good components and were well made.

As top being mastering grade??? it was not suppose to be "mastering grade" and it will not replace my Avocet or any other piece of equipment in my mastering studio or video post production studio.

Have a GREAT weekend and keep not buying things because they may, in the future, not work.
I had a great weekend, thanks

I think you might want to (really) read my posts again to see what i'm pointing at. I never ever compared it to something like an avocet or other even better controller. I'm just warning people here.
And yes, I don't buy these kind of things because i'd rather have something that is not made out of parts which will fail really soon or will not work the way it's advertised. I have some personal realworld examples.

Some time ago, I bought a really good looking DA converter (ebay), a bit like this attenuator (maybe even the same brand?) for in my livingroom connected to my chromecast audio. I still have the box itself and use it for something else since the converter itself stopped after about 2 months of use (dead, doing nothing). The PSU that came along with it didn't work at all from day one: noise, hum, distortion. The DA itself sounded decent (not really better then the chromecast stock DA which says it), but it also had some really strange peaks around 20khz, even running it at 96khz. There was nothing above 22khz anyway, it rolled off right after the strange peak at 20khz so it was not really running at 96khz. The box looked good and expensive.

Another thing, I bought dual SMD opamps (ADA797) on a dip converter as a drop in replacement for a dual opamp (just to test). They where pretty cheap and looked good/legit. But when I started using them I measured quite some distortion and even differences between the 4 that I ordered. One of the opamps was even running hot even though it kinda worked (with 1%THD IIRC). They where not real ada797's, but some cheap ass opamps with a ada797 logo printed.

I also bought a pickit2, which is a device to program pic chips. My computer didn't recognize it as a legimate pickit and needed different drivers for it to (kinda) work. The label says it's a genuine pickit2, but it's not.

To sum things up, a lot of those products is just a waste of money because they are fake and will (IF they work) fail really soon.

Did you happen to measure the specs again with RMAA and also with a straight wire connection so with and without the attenuator inline? Still curious about those plots.

What's the age of those Otari and ampex machines? I guess they didn't break down after 2 months from being new. I assume they where like 20/25 years old when that happened. Let me guess, you had to replace elco's because they went bad? Also maybe some transistors or resistors which was caused by the bad capacitors. That's the standard livespan of elco's.

I'm sorry Thomas, but I guess you don't really see my point or you don't actually read what i'm writing here. Nothing personal.
Old 1 day ago
  #34
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
I had a great weekend, thanks

I think you might want to (really) read my posts again to see what i'm pointing at. I never ever compared it to something like an avocet or other even better controller. I'm just warning people here.
And yes, I don't buy these kind of things because i'd rather have something that is not made out of parts which will fail really soon or will not work the way it's advertised. I have some personal realworld examples.

Some time ago, I bought a really good looking DA converter (ebay), a bit like this attenuator (maybe even the same brand?) for in my livingroom connected to my chromecast audio. I still have the box itself and use it for something else since the converter itself stopped after about 2 months of use (dead, doing nothing). The PSU that came along with it didn't work at all from day one: noise, hum, distortion. The DA itself sounded decent (not really better then the chromecast stock DA which says it), but it also had some really strange peaks around 20khz, even running it at 96khz. There was nothing above 22khz anyway, it rolled off right after the strange peak at 20khz so it was not really running at 96khz. The box looked good and expensive.

Another thing, I bought dual SMD opamps (ADA797) on a dip converter as a drop in replacement for a dual opamp (just to test). They where pretty cheap and looked good/legit. But when I started using them I measured quite some distortion and even differences between the 4 that I ordered. One of the opamps was even running hot even though it kinda worked (with 1%THD IIRC). They where not real ada797's, but some cheap ass opamps with a ada797 logo printed.

I also bought a pickit2, which is a device to program pic chips. My computer didn't recognize it as a legimate pickit and needed different drivers for it to (kinda) work. The label says it's a genuine pickit2, but it's not.

To sum things up, a lot of those products is just a waste of money because they are fake and will (IF they work) fail really soon.

Did you happen to measure the specs again with RMAA and also with a straight wire connection so with and without the attenuator inline? Still curious about those plots.

What's the age of those Otari and ampex machines? I guess they didn't break down after 2 months from being new. I assume they where like 20/25 years old when that happened. Let me guess, you had to replace elco's because they went bad? Also maybe some transistors or resistors which was caused by the bad capacitors. That's the standard livespan of elco's.

I'm sorry Thomas, but I guess you don't really see my point or you don't actually read what i'm writing here. Nothing personal.
Have a GREAT Holiday and a Prosperous New Year!
Old 20 hours ago
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
Have a GREAT Holiday and a Prosperous New Year!
Thomas, Thanks for the info - I feel for you :( it seems every thread has to have someone that want's to make a living out of being right.

I understood what you meant - and why you posted it - and I would test it myself if I thought it might solve a problem. I doubt anyone needs to be warned because of your post


Thanks for sharing and Happy Holidays !
Old 17 hours ago
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHull View Post
Thomas, Thanks for the info - I feel for you :( it seems every thread has to have someone that want's to make a living out of being right.

I understood what you meant - and why you posted it - and I would test it myself if I thought it might solve a problem. I doubt anyone needs to be warned because of your post


Thanks for sharing and Happy Holidays !
Hi Scott,

It has never been my plan on being right (there's always 2 sides of a story). If you really read what I wrote, you can see for yourself. I never said it's a bad unit, all I have is some doubts about the quality. Also because of my technical background and my personal experience.
That is why I (and someone else) asked Thomas to do some more tests to see if i'm right about this or not (and yes, I would admit it right away if i'm wrong about it).

Merry christmas!
Old 8 hours ago
  #37
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Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by da goose View Post
Hi Scott,

It has never been my plan on being right (there's always 2 sides of a story). If you really read what I wrote, you can see for yourself. I never said it's a bad unit, all I have is some doubts about the quality. Also because of my technical background and my personal experience.
That is why I (and someone else) asked Thomas to do some more tests to see if i'm right about this or not (and yes, I would admit it right away if i'm wrong about it).

Merry Christmas!
I am one of the most careful people when it comes to equipment. I freely admit to being somewhat anal when it comes to proofing out equipment. It took me 5 years to get my equipment setup to my liking and to minimize all the problems I could. I know you are just being careful BUT from your first post it seemed like you were dishing a piece of equipment that you knew nothing about (since you don't own one) and you kept finding more and more things wrong with it. You never compared it to the AVOCET but you repeatedly said things that seemed to imply that you were trying to compare a $115.00 monitor controller to something that cost 30 times as much.

Have a GREAT HOLIDAY and a GOOD AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR!!!
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