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DDP file price?? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 2 weeks ago
  #31
Mastering Engineer
 

I charge €15 +VAT for DDP.

I sequence Files in my DAW (Pro Tools) and have to use DDP Creator to create the DDP which takes extra time.

Majority of my clients do not require DDP
Old 2 weeks ago
  #32
Gear Head
 
moostapha's Avatar
 

I don't, and I'm not planning on it. Everything I've done so far has been for online release only, so it doesn't matter. Everyone has declined it despite it being free, actually.

But, I like it when bands I see live sell CDs at the gig...I still have my CD collection from the 90s, but almost everything I've bought in the last decade or so has been at gigs and signed...which is just cool even if I just rip them to my computer and never listen to the physical media.

And I want that to keep doing that.

It's a little bit of helping to do what I want to see happen.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #33
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Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
I don't charge extra for CD/DDP/digital masters. Rates are all-inclusive.
Only a nominal extra charge for alternative versions (instrumental, TV mix, radio edits), or for vinyl pre-masters (always a separate process pass).

Last edited by Adam Dempsey; 2 weeks ago at 07:19 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #34
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
A question for the guys only charging 15-30 whatever's:

Once you've made the DDP, do you re-import it and listen through to the whole thing on headphones?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #35
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Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon View Post
A question for the guys only charging 15-30 whatever's:

Once you've made the DDP, do you re-import it and listen through to the whole thing on headphones?
Of course, re-import with checksum, rip it back to .wav, put it on my portable player and listen again. All part of the QC.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon View Post
A question for the guys only charging 15-30 whatever's:

Once you've made the DDP, do you re-import it and listen through to the whole thing on headphones?
If I'm making a DDP I also make the final digital master by extracting from the DDP, and do my QC on that - no extra QC needed.

That said, I don't think I've ever had any kind of problem with the audio from a DDP. Back in the day I occasionally had CD text problems, but that seems to be a thing of the past too. I do import the DDP Image into Sonoris DDP Player (I use HOFA to create) to check that everything loads properly.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #37
Gear Addict
 
mirochandler's Avatar
 

I do also not listening the whole disc again, but I do a 0-Test in the original CD-project with the reimported DDP
Maybe in smaller quantities it is not that important, but with >1k of copies it is part of the work of a trustable Engineer to check the DDP!

I cannot understand why they only charge 15-30 for such a responsible work. Can they also guarantee that the final CD is exactly what they listen in the CD preparation?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
Gear Addict
 
karibu's Avatar
 

I charge € 40+VAT when I deal with regular clients (like producers, labels, studios etc...) and € 50+VAT to final clients (like artists).
Inserting text, spacing etc...takes 30-40min that I don't spend if only mastered files are required, so I think it's not unfair to ask for an additional fee.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
15-30 is just crazy. These guys need to realize they could / should easily charge 70 euro plus for the DDP. And more with a longer playing time.

I'll charge around 90 euro for an hour long album DDP.

Remember, you're not just getting paid to load in all the material and press the magic red button, you're getting paid to NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES make a balls-up and to deliver a perfect, guaranteed, fully checked, error free DDP. If you mess up, you're responsible for compensating the client for that messed up batch, so your fee should include some sort of danger-money / insurance typa-thing in it!

In the process of making several thousand DDPs, i only ever messed up once to the point of having to reimburse the client (to the tune of about a 800 euros) and i learnt a big lesson from that. There's no way i would have had such a success rate without being totally anal in the process of making each DDP, double, triple checking stuff, and that all takes time, certainly more then your 15-30 bucks!

I remember back in the day i was researching DDP prices in various studios and one (famous but not THAT famous) ME in the U.S. was charging $500 per DDP! LOL! Don't think you'd get away with that nowadays though.........unless your name rhymes with Lob Budwig! (actually i have no idea what they charge for a DDP)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #40
Lives for gear
 
teebaum's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon View Post
15-30 is just crazy. These guys need to realize they could / should easily charge 70 euro plus for the DDP. And more with a longer playing time.

I'll charge around 90 euro for an hour long album DDP.

Remember, you're not just getting paid to load in all the material and press the magic red button, you're getting paid to NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES make a balls-up and to deliver a perfect, guaranteed, fully checked, error free DDP. If you mess up, you're responsible for compensating the client for that messed up batch, so your fee should include some sort of danger-money / insurance typa-thing in it!

In the process of making several thousand DDPs, i only ever messed up once to the point of having to reimburse the client (to the tune of about a 800 euros) and i learnt a big lesson from that. There's no way i would have had such a success rate without being totally anal in the process of making each DDP, double, triple checking stuff, and that all takes time, certainly more then your 15-30 bucks!

I remember back in the day i was researching DDP prices in various studios and one (famous but not THAT famous) ME in the U.S. was charging $500 per DDP! LOL! Don't think you'd get away with that nowadays though.........unless your name rhymes with Lob Budwig! (actually i have no idea what they charge for a DDP)


i wonder how this will work out with such low prices for a ddp.
if i only think about how many emails and phone calls i have to make, until i have a really correct list of songnames (asking a labelcopy doesn't do anything for many customers), until it's clear, if i give the isrc's or if they have their own (what's an isrc?), enter them, give ean and enter etc. - then depending on the transitions / montages, pauses set, fades, send a version for the customer to check, then the final and so on...
here we give out a template for reproduction, which has to be seriously double-checked

i've seen how many ddp's i've made in the last few years.

In 2016 it was 207.
In 2017 it was 151.
2018 there will be (extrapolated to the end of the year) about 137

but with the vinylmasters

In 2017 there were 39
In 2017 there were 51
2018 it will be (extrapolated up to the end of the year) about 65

Last edited by teebaum; 2 weeks ago at 07:56 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #41
No charge if it's only for one song. However, for ten songs or more, I do charge $120.00 as it takes time to listen to all the songs and make sure that they all have just about the same loudness, all the fade-in and fade-outs, the gap between the song, then I enter the metadata.
Before I send the DDP file to clients, I listen to the entire DDP file and check for any errors or typos.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Justin P.'s Avatar
 

By the time I get all the songs sounding how I want, sequenced how they need to be sequenced, faded/cross-faded how they need to be crossfaded, CD-Text/Metadata entered correctly, etc. etc...it's literally a matter of seconds to render a DDP instead of (or as well as) WAV files or reference mp3s from WaveLab. It's all part of the mastering process.

WaveLab, and pretty much any decent mastering DAW makes this extremely simple. Assemble/PQ the project one time and one time only, output many formats with the correct render settings/presets. The end.

Yes, it's good to QC things but I also put some responsibility on the client here. I send them a DDP w/HOFA DDP Player Maker to approve the DDP. This way, there are no user induced playback issues from iTunes or WMP or who knows what else they try to do to listen to the files, and they can also clearly see all the CD-Text which WaveLab also pushes to metadata automatically.

I of course also have my QC practices that would catch anything before they do but sometimes, there can be issues we'd never know about such as if they sent the wrong mix etc.

I've never had to make a phone call to get titles and ISRC codes, I ask for all this stuff on the project intake form before I get started which is emailed to me. I can copy/paste the exact titles. It's really simple.

Because of this, DPP and 16-bit/44.1k WAVs are always in included in the price because it takes literally no more than 2 minutes to render the DDP, run it through HOFA DDP Player Maker, start the upload via Dropbox sync app, pop the download link into an email template with additional info, email it, and move on.

If it's taking you an extra 90 minutes to make a DDP, you might have some workflow improvements that can be made.

The only time I don't make a DDP is for single songs unless they happen to be doing a single song CD pressing which does happen now and then. Otherwise, even if CDs are not being pressed, it's so fast/easy to render a DDP and send it with HOFA DDP Player Maker it's my preferred method for getting project approvals vs standalone WAVs or mp3 files which are bound to get bungled up in some media player or otherwise inaccurately listened to, plus most media players can't display metadata in WAV files, only AAC/mp3.

Last edited by Justin P.; 2 weeks ago at 03:36 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #43
Lives for gear
 
I.R.Baboon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin P. View Post
By the time I get all the songs sounding how I want, sequenced how they need to be sequenced, faded/cross-faded how they need to be crossfaded, CD-Text/Metadata entered correctly, etc. etc...it's literally a matter of seconds to render a DDP instead of (or as well as) WAV files or reference mp3s from WaveLab. It's all part of the mastering process.

WaveLab, and pretty much any decent mastering DAW makes this extremely simple. Assemble/PQ the project one time and one time only, output many formats with the correct render settings/presets. The end.

Yes, it's good to QC things but I also put some responsibility on the client here. I send them a DDP w/HOFA DDP Player Maker to approve the DDP. This way, there are no user induced playback issues from iTunes or WMP or who knows what else they try to do to listen to the files, and they can also clearly see all the CD-Text which WaveLab also pushes to metadata automatically.

I of course also have my QC practices that would catch anything before they do but sometimes, there can be issues we'd never know about such as if they sent the wrong mix etc.

I've never had to make a phone call to get titles and ISRC codes, I ask for all this stuff on the project intake form before I get started which is emailed to me. I can copy/paste the exact titles. It's really simple.

Because of this, DPP and 16-bit/44.1k WAVs are always in included in the price because it takes literally no more than 2 minutes to render the DDP, run it through HOFA DDP Player Maker, start the upload via Dropbox sync app, pop the download link into an email template with additional info, email it, and move on.

If it's taking you an extra 90 minutes to make a DDP, you might have some workflow improvements that can be made.

The only time I don't make a DDP is for single songs unless they happen to be doing a single song CD pressing which does happen now and then. Otherwise, even if CDs are being pressed, it's so fast/easy to render a DDP and send it with HOFA DDP Player Maker it's my preferred method for getting project approvals vs standalone WAVs or mp3 files which are bound to get bungled up in some media player or otherwise inaccurately listened to, plus most media players can't display metadata in WAV files, only AAC/mp3.
The point is, when delivering only WAV, there are things you just don't worry about. When the client emails "great, we're happy with it, send the bill", your work more or less ends there.

But if they say "we decided we also need a DDP" master, then alarm bells start ringing.

Is the CD text correct?

That song title that included a line break, but which you ignored, now becomes an issue. Requires an email.

Track 3 has "feat. xxx" in the title. Is that correct, or should the artist name move to the "artist field".

Perhaps it's 6 months later. Is the running order still the same? Often these things get changed in the meantime, and they forgot to tell you. Need to check it.

Those ISRC codes they sent are 2016 codes, is that correct, need to check that.

Is the DDP going to Universal? Ok, needs to have their special naming convention. One little error means the DDP will be rejected.

When i master just for WAV, i don't check the whole master carefully on headphones because it's not necessary. Saves time and means you can charge a bit less. But with a DDP that must be done.

You said that you get all the info up front, but in my experience that's not a good idea, because very often the titles will be changed during the process, and if they send a new label copy, you have to enter ALL info again, as you can't know for sure what was changed. So in fact i always only ask for this info at the end, and if it's only going to WAV, i don't bother and just use the titles from their mix WAVs or the provisional list they sent. Again as a means to save time in order to charge less.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Strut78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon View Post
The point is, when delivering only WAV, there are things you just don't worry about. When the client emails "great, we're happy with it, send the bill", your work more or less ends there.

But if they say "we decided we also need a DDP" master, then alarm bells start ringing.

Is the CD text correct?

That song title that included a line break, but which you ignored, now becomes an issue. Requires an email.

Track 3 has "feat. xxx" in the title. Is that correct, or should the artist name move to the "artist field".

Perhaps it's 6 months later. Is the running order still the same? Often these things get changed in the meantime, and they forgot to tell you. Need to check it.

Those ISRC codes they sent are 2016 codes, is that correct, need to check that.

Is the DDP going to Universal? Ok, needs to have their special naming convention. One little error means the DDP will be rejected.

When i master just for WAV, i don't check the whole master carefully on headphones because it's not necessary. Saves time and means you can charge a bit less. But with a DDP that must be done.

You said that you get all the info up front, but in my experience that's not a good idea, because very often the titles will be changed during the process, and if they send a new label copy, you have to enter ALL info again, as you can't know for sure what was changed. So in fact i always only ask for this info at the end, and if it's only going to WAV, i don't bother and just use the titles from their mix WAVs or the provisional list they sent. Again as a means to save time in order to charge less.
I had a similar experience until I put all of this back on the clients and they need to fill in all of the track and release information in order to complete my online booking form. No project get scheduled here until this has been finalised and sent through in the booking form and then they are re-directed to the upload page to send through their mixes. Clients are aware that the info they provide will be entered exactly as provided with the same use of capital letters etc. and also accept any omissions on their end. Any changes to this “can” be charged extra.

Six and a half years since I started using the online booking form and I haven’t had this fail me yet. My clients know that they are not ready for mastering until they have finalised this information which usually means that first master is the final master with no ongoing alterations.

So I can agree that chasing this up is a chore, but changing how I book in sessions really streamlined the process for me and so far so good. I can also appreciate that this approach also depends on your workflow and clients/market you work in.

I just thought I would share my experience.

Cheers
Old 2 weeks ago
  #45
Lives for gear
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin P. View Post
By the time I get all the songs sounding how I want, sequenced how they need to be sequenced, faded/cross-faded how they need to be crossfaded, CD-Text/Metadata entered correctly, etc. etc...it's literally a matter of seconds to render a DDP instead of (or as well as) WAV files or reference mp3s from WaveLab. It's all part of the mastering process.

WaveLab, and pretty much any decent mastering DAW makes this extremely simple. Assemble/PQ the project one time and one time only, output many formats with the correct render settings/presets. The end.

Yes, it's good to QC things but I also put some responsibility on the client here. I send them a DDP w/HOFA DDP Player Maker to approve the DDP. This way, there are no user induced playback issues from iTunes or WMP or who knows what else they try to do to listen to the files, and they can also clearly see all the CD-Text which WaveLab also pushes to metadata automatically.

I of course also have my QC practices that would catch anything before they do but sometimes, there can be issues we'd never know about such as if they sent the wrong mix etc.

I've never had to make a phone call to get titles and ISRC codes, I ask for all this stuff on the project intake form before I get started which is emailed to me. I can copy/paste the exact titles. It's really simple.

Because of this, DPP and 16-bit/44.1k WAVs are always in included in the price because it takes literally no more than 2 minutes to render the DDP, run it through HOFA DDP Player Maker, start the upload via Dropbox sync app, pop the download link into an email template with additional info, email it, and move on.

If it's taking you an extra 90 minutes to make a DDP, you might have some workflow improvements that can be made.

The only time I don't make a DDP is for single songs unless they happen to be doing a single song CD pressing which does happen now and then. Otherwise, even if CDs are being pressed, it's so fast/easy to render a DDP and send it with HOFA DDP Player Maker it's my preferred method for getting project approvals vs standalone WAVs or mp3 files which are bound to get bungled up in some media player or otherwise inaccurately listened to, plus most media players can't display metadata in WAV files, only AAC/mp3.
Yep, it's all about getting the right stuff from the client from the get go and being stringent with it from the out, so all you gotta do is check it all lines up with what you've asked of the client. Managing limitations is a big one with CDs because the Meta Data isn't the same as other formats due to its age. But all you gotta do is make sure that info is available and you've prompted them for the right stuff when they give you the job details.

Hofa makes this ridiculously easy and I'm not one for making things more confusing and longer for my clients for the sake of it
Old 2 weeks ago
  #46
Audio Alchemist
 
Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bestmusichits View Post
Hi guys,

do you charge an additional fee for a DDP file? How much if 'yes'?

I was thinking.... Pro DDP creation software is not cheap.
And you have to spend more time to create a DDP file including text, metadata, pauses, etc.

Or it's a part of an album mastering and no additional fees needed??
USD $130 or €110.

Mastering rates in EUR / USD | 100% satisfaction guaranteed

Including it in the total price makes sense if you've offset your prices to include the additional investment, time and checking involved in making a DDP.

Often clients don't need a DDP and the same goes for including AAC/MP3 conversions, MFiT or whatever. Some of these things take very little extra time, some a lot more if it's done right.

But it's not all a question of time, as some people seem to think. In many cases what the client is paying for is your knowledge (of how to do things right), not your time.

I prefer transparent pricing and making things optional. I've never had a complaint from a client or label on that account.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Silvertone's Avatar
The plants used to take a master CD and turn them into DDP’s to do their runs. Frankly I’m glad that process is in our hands now.

DDP is foolproof for uploading because of the MD5 checksum aspect. All your data is verifiable at the plant. The fact that clients can play their music from the DDP, see their metadata and burn CD’s themselves is just a bonus.

I usually include the DDP master in my pricing. I have it broken out and do charge if a client requests one weeks, months or years later.

Silvertone Mastering
Old 2 weeks ago
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon View Post
Those ISRC codes they sent are 2016 codes, is that correct, need to check that.
At least the year in the ISRC is always the year of allocation of the code, not the year of release.

The way I see it, professional mastering engineers are still gatekeepers. We're paid for QC, whether the client's aware of it or not. When I started as a staff engineer I risked getting sacked if I left the room during DAT transfers (why risk it?), lest a glitch get through.
Dot the i's, cross the t's... and don't forget the j's.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Justin P.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by I.R.Baboon View Post
But if they say "we decided we also need a DDP" master, then alarm bells start ringing.
I understand your concern because I hate doing things more than once and wasting time when it can be avoided but I find that if you simply inform the client of what you need to know ahead of time, they can easily get that sorted out before submitting the project. I find that clients on the younger side are highly sensitive to having the metadata embedded in the WAVs and reference mp3 files (despite its relevance at present day) so IMO, it's best to just get all the info dialed in, embedded, and avoid having it come back to haunt you later. WIth the right workflow and software it's painless and mindless.

Raise the questions ahead of time and they can start thinking about it. The amount of times song titles change after I finalize a project is rare.

In part because these days, things get released so fast after mastering compared to the old days. This is an extreme example but today I'm mastering a Christmas album that will be sent to the CD replicator by Monday.

I'd say on average things I master come out 2 to 4 weeks later and due to my workflow, the amount of times things need to change after we finalize a master and deliver all the parts is very rare. It's all about managing the front end and getting detailed info.

Now and then song or album titles need an update during a project approval process which is easy but very rarely do a get an email months later asking for a change like this if the project has been approved and closed with all the parts delivered. To me this is all part of the mastering process, not just the sonic processing.

With the right workflows and forms etc, this is really easy and an overall time saver to dial it in ahead of time.

But, if you just take the sparse and incorrect info they willingly give you without guidelines, and have to chase it down for each project, yeah, that would be no fun and you'll be fielding tons of emails about small changes that could have been easily mitigated ahead of time.

As a small one-man business (just hired an assistant though), I let the website and clients do this work and I simply copy and paste it in precisely into WaveLab and the rest is a breeze.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #50
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebaum View Post

if i only think about how many emails and phone calls i have to make, until i have a really correct list of songnames
Ah! " Do we have to decide song names just now? "
Old 2 weeks ago
  #51
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirochandler View Post
• put files into the project
• do the PQing
• check fades and pauses and sometimes make exact crossfades
• paste in names and codes
I'd do up to there in Sadie or Pyramix as part of the workflow regardless of whether I'm creating a DDP.
Quote:
• export the ddp
• (readback of DDP and 0-test - if you do that)
• upload to server
• writing email

That all for £25?
I do not know the taxes in UK, but when calculating with 50% then this very important work is only £12,5 worth?
I agree with you there. I think £40 to £50 is OK though (assuming that I'm already making decent money on the overall job!) - if I were to do it as a one-off from someone else's masters which does happen from time to time it depends how busy I am, but I'd generally settle for somewhere around £80.

(In case you're interested, tax is usually more like 20% for a business, and even for an individual it's generally around 30% - 45%). I have a business partner in Scotland and I guess some people there might just touch 50%.
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