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Which plugin does the best job of creating that magic 3D depth that hardware imparts?
Old 30th June 2019
  #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
There is no "magic" in ANY plugin
I agree 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
If something seems magical it is 100% explainable.
I disagree 100%
.
Old 30th June 2019
  #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
I agree 100%
I disagree 100%
.
Your first reply seems to contradict the second one (assuming we're still talking about plugins. I agree that not everything magical is explainable!).

A plugin's effect may be unintentional but it's not magic. If a plugin is doing something to the signal - "magical" or otherwise - that "something" can be revealed and explained (using null testing and/or many other analysis tools).
Old 30th June 2019
  #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
Your first reply seems to contradict the second one (assuming we're still talking about plugins. I agree that not everything magical is explainable!).
Not at all!

You said that "If something seems magical it is 100% explainable."

I simply pointed out that just because something "seems to be magical" does NOT mean that it is necessarily explainable!

"Magic" is NOT the only thing that is unexplainable, ya know!

It could very well be that there is something else we didn't think to measure, study, or explain!
.
Old 30th June 2019
  #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Not at all!

You said that "If something seems magical it is 100% explainable."

I simply pointed out that just because something "seems to be magical" does NOT mean that it is necessarily explainable!

"Magic" is NOT the only thing that is unexplainable, ya know!

It could very well be that there is something else we didn't think to measure, study, or explain!
.
Even if there is "something" that we don't know how to measure it can be revealed with a null test.

Again, I'm talking about plugin processing here. Bits go in, bits come out. What you hear may be described by some as "magical" but there is no magic along the way. It's purely math and can be explained.
Old 30th June 2019
  #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
Even if there is "something" that we don't know how to measure it can be revealed with a null test.
Hey, I totally agree with the observations and facts you have raised here!

...It's just that there is a HUGE difference between "revealing" something and EXPLAINING it!
.
Old 30th June 2019
  #726
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Hey, I totally agree with the observations and facts you have raised here!

...It's just that there is a HUGE difference between "revealing" something and EXPLAINING it!
.
Yep, like that hearing the claimed -144 dbFS difference in the dithering test.
Old 30th June 2019
  #727
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Originally Posted by DAH View Post
Yep, like that hearing the claimed -144 dbFS difference in the dithering test.
Oh GOD!

(Not THIS again!)
.
Old 30th June 2019
  #728
DAH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Oh GOD!

(Not THIS again!)
.
it is on topic counter-wise to your magical explanation chat.
Old 1st July 2019
  #729
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The only thing worse than trying to explain the "things you do not know", is arguing about it.......
Old 1st July 2019
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Hey, I totally agree with the observations and facts you have raised here!

...It's just that there is a HUGE difference between "revealing" something and EXPLAINING it!
.
Math can explain everything in the universe from black holes to atom bombs - it has NO trouble explaining what a plugin is doing to digital audio samples. That is the "left brain"/science viewpoint.

Now we can, instead, close our eyes and hear some mythical, magical "fairy dust" that certain processors impart to the sound. That is a "right brain"/art point of view.

Both viewpoints are valid and both viewpoints are good. The best audio processors use both.

Old 2nd July 2019
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonlinear View Post
Math can explain everything in the universe from black holes to atom bombs - it has NO trouble explaining what a plugin is doing to digital audio samples. That is the "left brain"/science viewpoint.

Now we can, instead, close our eyes and hear some mythical, magical "fairy dust" that certain processors impart to the sound. That is a "right brain"/art point of view.

Both viewpoints are valid and both viewpoints are good. The best audio processors use both.

I would tend to agree, except that I think there are some metaphysical aspects of the universe which are simply beyond the scientific method's ability to analyze, at least at this point in human evolution. Not saying this applies to hardware/plugin analysis.
Old 12th July 2019
  #732
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Some new 3D magic is here! Waves Abbey Road Studio 3 – don't use it as says on the tin, disable head tracking and put it last in your master chain. Adjust to flavor. I prefer "Far", if there's no other reverb in the mix. Unconventional use, I know, but that's what we did back in 1986 on a mixer with no sends/returns. Sir Paul is nervously counting cows in the corner.
Old 12th July 2019
  #733
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I totally forgot to mention Toneboosters "Isone" plugin (I think that's the one). That thing can do absolutely crazy things in terms of depth/space. It takes some time to wrap your mind around some of the more interesting features in it.
Old 13th July 2019
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atma View Post
I totally forgot to mention Toneboosters "Isone" plugin (I think that's the one). That thing can do absolutely crazy things in terms of depth/space. It takes some time to wrap your mind around some of the more interesting features in it.
I've just compared Isone and Abbey. Isone is all unnatural. Abbey is limited, but very natural sounding, and maybe those limitations are its strong side. Anyway, works fine for the task, although, doesn't completely solves the problem.
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