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Vinyl plant requesting DDP Utility Software
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Head
 
Crizdee's Avatar
 

Vinyl plant requesting DDP

Hi,

Done lots of projects for this label using the same vinyl plant and always send a wav file for each side along with a PDF of timings.

This time they have requested a DDP? seems a bit odd as a wav is simple and straight forward and i can't really see any advantage of a DDP.

Haven't really thought it through yet but i guess the DDP would have individual song files for each side, same as a CD or would it be best to have 1 wav per DDP for each side.

And i think im right in thinking DDP can only be 44.1k 16bit where as i would usually send a higher format wav.

Any experience with this?


Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

I recently did a cassette mastering job and they wanted the same thing. To make matters more arduous, they wanted a unique DDP for each side of the (double) cassette album.

I think it's absurd-- transferring to an analog medium such as tape or vinyl and not using the highest resolution and bit depth possible. You are correct that a DDP will only play back 16/44.1 audio.

If you are in communication with the pressing plant I would simply confront them about it and see what they say.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
 

Verified Member
It would be interesting for all of us to find out the reasoning behind such a request.
Never been asked a DDP for a vinyl cut so far...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Addict
 
drycappuccinoguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogoftears View Post
I think it's absurd-- transferring to an analog medium such as tape or vinyl and not using the highest resolution and bit depth possible. You are correct that a DDP will only play back 16/44.1 audio.
Cassettes are way lower resolution than CDs less dynamic rang poorer frequency response and likely tape saturation will be added. Won't benefit from bit depth or greater resolution at all. Not to mention that analogue degrades when copied. Of course you may prefer that sound to the CD.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drycappuccinoguy View Post
Cassettes are way lower resolution than CDs less dynamic rang poorer frequency response and likely tape saturation will be added. Won't benefit from bit depth or greater resolution at all. Not to mention that analogue degrades when copied. Of course you may prefer that sound to the CD.
didn't say anything about preferences. i have nearly zero desire to listen to cassettes, tbh, and i think people releasing music on them is just an attempt at hipster consumerism.

nonetheless when doing a job for tape or vinyl, i would like to use the highest resolution master-- using dither, SRC, etc, ever so slightly affects the sound, and obviously the transfer to an analog medium affects the sound even more, it seems best practice to remove as many variables as possible.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Addict
 
drycappuccinoguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogoftears View Post
nonetheless when doing a job for tape or vinyl, i would like to use the highest resolution master-- using dither, SRC, etc, ever so slightly affects the sound, and obviously the transfer to an analog medium affects the sound even more, it seems best practice to remove as many variables as possible.
Obviously a higher resolution does not hurt so it's a safe choice. I just question if it actually helps. I suspect it wouldn't but really just my hypothesis. Maybe someone has tested this.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

IME the most important part for cassettes is actually the transfer itself, which we have little control over. My general opinion is the masters should be backed off the limiter a bit (not entirely, just enough to give some peaks and valleys) and then have the transfer be done very very hot, using about 1 dB of cassette saturation as the "final limiter" in a sense. this, to my ears, sounds WAY better then when the transfer person leaves headroom (usually for an already bricked album), thus increasing the noise floor exponentially. even 3 dBs of headroom/added noise floor on a cassette makes a significant difference.

when i was a kid i would make tapes from my favorite records, and always record them just hot enough before they sounded "crackly"... i used to love the sound of those cassettes blasting in my car. good times.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
huejahfink's Avatar
 

Verified Member
May be of interest here:

Sonoris new version of DDP creator has a vinyl option which can include higher depth audio than CD as well.

'A very convenient feature of the Pro version is vinyl mastering mode. This mode is active as soon as you choose one of the tracks as start of side B of your vinyl project. This effectively splits the project in a side A and B. A stereo phase correlation meter will appear and you can use it to prevent any problems in the cutting stage. Export of the project will result in 2 audio files, 1 for each side, in 16, 24 or 32 bits wav, aif or flac. format. Generate a pdf tracklist to send with the master files to the cutting plant.'

Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
I could be wrong, but I don’t think that option in Sonoris actually outputs a DDP fileset, though, which is what the OP’s pressing plant is asking for.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Head
 
Crizdee's Avatar
 

Hi,

I contacted the label detailing my concerns and they contacted the vinyl plant and got this reply back.


"Thanks for your email. It’s a bit out of my area of expertise but I agree with your mastering guy and I think that 24Bit wavs are the best option - supplied as full sides with all gapping set.

It seems that DDPs are sent as masters because all the track data is encoded in the files and this can ensure it runs the same as a CD version, if the gapping and fading between tracks are irregular.

So yes, 24-bit WAV file do seem to be best!"



Before i got this reply back from the label, the label initially said they were told it was to help with the amount of wrong information then get with wavs. mostly people not providing accurate details for the correct timings and too much time wasted going back and forth to get the correct information. So i guess a DDP would provide accurate timings! but not the best quality.



Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Mastering Moderator
 
Riccardo's Avatar
 

Verified Member
ah ah! That explains a bit, sign of the times I suppose, the DDP would mean getting a single file set, opefully with track names, spacing, pq and track list as well as UPC and barcode all in one place. A tad extreme but I guess old labelling practices are on the way to extinction...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drycappuccinoguy View Post
Cassettes are way lower resolution than CDs...
"Lower resolution," for many people including me, is synonymous with "lower sample rate." Tape has no sample rate. Are you using the term in a different way?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Adam Dempsey's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crizdee View Post
Before i got this reply back from the label, the label initially said they were told it was to help with the amount of wrong information then get with wavs. mostly people not providing accurate details for the correct timings and too much time wasted going back and forth to get the correct information. So i guess a DDP would provide accurate timings! but not the best quality.
Labels aren't mastering engineers. A DDP Image is a CD Master (or Pre-master in "old" terms, as glass mastering was the mastering stage). So it seems they're simply trying to streamline their internal workflow processes to help ensure they have all they need to meet deadlines. Sonically it's actually, unwittingly, asking for trouble and potential (and costly) re-cuts and repressing.
Obviously for projects that involve professional mastering > professional cutting/mastering, all involved would know better.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crizdee View Post

And i think im right in thinking DDP can only be 44.1k 16bit where as i would usually send a higher format wav.
With SoundBlade and probably also other DDP software it is possible to create DDPs with up to 24 bit and 192 kHz-

Within a DDP folder the pure audio is just one coherent file.

When you open a DDP you can see all the start and end markers and more informations. I think this is what a vinyl plant likes to use maybe to adjust feed rate and other things better or easier.

DDP is not limited to 16/44,1
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Hermetech Mastering's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Recent versions of Sonoris DDP Creator Pro have had tools for creating DDPs for vinyl release.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Verified Member
Some plants actually master from CD players.
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